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Old Mar 25, 2015, 08:10 PM
AMA 1046820
Powerdyne's Avatar
United States, IN, Muncie
Joined Mar 2013
1,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8LBV View Post
I'm finally closing this significant chapter of my RC Career.
This product is going in the trash can.
I wasted a ton of time & money on it over time.
The good news is I had plenty of other successes along side this story.
Over the past what's it been now 2.5 years?
I've gained a lot more experience with RC helis and some flybarless systems.
I with what very little authority I can muster declare this product bad & dangerous.
EHirobo: YOU SUCK!
For never giving this any attention & fixing it.
Why would you go through all the trouble to make such a product and then not make it work
and sell it to people.
It's horse poo!

I took this out and gave it one more serious effort and here's what I found.

First off the Device flys nearly perfect, it's one of the best locked in flybarless heli experiences
I have ever had except it randomly will twitch and lurch BADLY about every
10 -25 seconds completely randomly.. in a very dangerous kind of way.

The twitches also randomly occur on ALL correction axis so I get them in the tail aileron and pitch axis ..
But only in/on one axis at a time when it happens.

I tried a whole host of things to fix this, different FBL placement, 3 layers of foam, 3 layers of foam + a layer of copper (like used on nitro) EVERYTHING.
Tried 3 different types of 450 size helis. same problem.

Tried other types of FBL and NO PROBLEMS ALL on the same heli.
Tarot ZYX-S and Kbar work fine.
BeastX works fine.

Also tried adjusting ALL the gains to almost zero to the point where it flys like there is no
FBL.. and I have plenty of experience flying 450 size with no FBL (NOBAR).
It's very pitchy but you get used to it.
So I am able to fly like that. It's not nearly as enjoyable and relaxing as a "stable" heli but it's flyable for experiments and testing.

The random twitches and lurches remain no matter where the gains are set!!
I really thought I might be able to turn down the gains and have this work better when I took it out yesterday but the twitches
and lurches are NOT even related to the gain settings and so
I insist to say not at this point with the latest firmware, it's NOT related at all to vibrations if it were vibrations the jerking should get worse with significantly higher gain settings and it does not!

It's like the software in the FBL takes a quick break to go do something else and then quickly comes back to the main routine..
The lurches are always quick jerks and then it's back.
Same duration every time . What's totally random is the time between jerks.
Sometimes it will go 30-40 seconds and fly or hover perfectly without any jerks or problems.
ITS NOT VIBRATIONS!!!!
It's crappy software in the FBL.

Again (EHirobo/CopterX) YOU SUCK!!
I'll never buy another product from you.
I tried and I tried hard when I put time into getting your crap to work over 2 and 1/2 years.
That sounds exactly like my issues with the second one I got. Version 2.1 Firmware fixed he first one for the most part.

Firmware 2.4 broke the already shoddy unit.

I still have one sitting in my toolbox. I planned on putting it on a trainer heli for hovering, to teach friends how a bad FBL unit can feel in the air. The Lurching, spasmodic twitching, and signal drops for no reason would make for good failure training.

Looking back, the first one had a little merit as a decent beginner foray into FBL. But after flying several other units in differing price ranges, I've found that this one is one to avoid like the plague.
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Old Yesterday, 12:48 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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Hahahaha!!!

This was my first FBL and I was so determined to make it work.
And always figured I could and that it wasn't a bad unit.
It turned out that it's just totally bad and wrong!
We spent so much time here and so many people tried so many things to help me suggesting my old belt CP V2 was too old and rickety with vibrations, that my home made FBL head was flawed etc. etc. etc.
All kinds of reasons it might be twitching that might have been my fault.
But no, turns out it's a just piece 'o crap.

That old Rickety Belt CP V2 with home made FBL head from a flybarred head and stock parts is still flying great on a Tarot ZYX-S
And I put the CopterX on a nearly perfect 450 all upgraded to premium Align parts.
I've also since worked with other FBL systems on 450s and have never ever had any problems with them.
I think I could have had much better success using a $19 Multiwii board or 3 piezo gyros hooked to
each control axis.
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Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
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mhills51's Avatar
kansas city
Joined Feb 2007
13,439 Posts
Yes mine also sits in the pile of forgotten units.
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Old Today, 12:10 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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Yep:
http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/4/0/6/9/3/0/a7151387-222-cx-3x.jpg"
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Old Today, 12:14 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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Are the other forgotten ones bad too?
Looks like a couple BeastX clones.
Heard those worked good.
Unless those ones failed.
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Old Today, 03:20 AM
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Joined May 2014
8 Posts
Hi,
On my side I am using 2 copterx cx-3x2000 on my 2 HK-450 pro.
I had problems with them with the firmware 2.1. After a firmware upgrade to 2.4 no more problems.
- 1 HK-450 PRO is set up for 3D with digital servo and some tarot parts (torque tube) : I am still a learner pilot and just started to learn the 3D. In normal fligth it is just perfectly tuned.
- 1 other HK-450 PRO is a standard setup with analog servo (except for tail) and belt driven. It used to fly almost perfectly (in normal fly not 3D). Since I have added a scale fuselage, it is not flying as well as before. I guess the fuselage is for something.

Note that before considering my HK-450 as perfectly tuned, I have crashed them maybe 20 times... the time to learn how to pilot an helicopter... an how to fine tune everything

Sorry for your bad experience with this flight controler. What about trying the cheap CC3D (16$ at banggood) ?
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Old Today, 03:25 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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It's encouraging to know you have it working.
How many flights on it since it's been good?
And how long has it been good?
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Old Today, 03:35 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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I am doing one very last ditch effort on mine.
I thought my last last ditch effort was my last ditch effort :-)

Mine is even doing this at low RPM on the ground before liftoff sames as in the air.
The cyclic will very randomly and once every so often lutch violently like FULL deflection and snaps back.
The tail pitch does the same thing very violently once every 1-2 minutes.
It makes no sense.
This evening I verified no static discharge problems. this heli is clean and not building up charges anywhere, it's also a bit humid here now.
I have a GOOD system for detecting static charges and buildups on my helis after I had a Flybarred Trex 450SA throw me for a month long loop 1 year ago!
It had a bad static problem on the tail and kept resetting the tail gyro and RX!
My system is an AM radio near the heli.
It detects even slight problems!! and the bad problems can be heard on the AM radio over 50 FT away from the heli when the charges build up and discharge.
It's an excellent crude trouble finding and shooting tool.

So my last last last ditch effort is I've taken the FBL completely out of it's metal case
I noticed one of the screws appeared stripped slightly loose and also the programming/set button was wobbling a bit lose in it's "hole" not likely but possibly another source of problem creating vibrations for the gyro.

Now I'll try it just the board mounted on antivibration foam and compare the issue carefully.
It the lurching is exactly the same I probably have a bad board or something.
And a kbar will go on instead.

:-)

I'll of course let ya know what happens!
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Old Today, 03:44 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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Mine is setup for 3D (HK450 with $10 FBL head conversion mod.
It FLYS PERFECTLY when it's flying.
But gets a random bad lurch every 20-30 seconds on average.
sometimes goes 30-60 second before lurching.
I crazy into autorotations and yesterday on a full 300 ft auto the cyclic lurched just before touchdown over grass.. no damage done but it clearly did it.

I have very good & clean power on it.
Separate batteries and esc/bec for power (motor) and electronics/FBL.

I'm not using an ESC with build in bec.

I was at one time but switched to good strong dedicated RX and FBL/Servo power
to rule out the lurching had anything to do with my previous BEC. servo draw etc.
I'm using very high quality digital MG RC OMG 450 size servos :-)

It does not lurch the cyclic when the motor is not on sitting on the ground.
However it clearly did it yesterday when the motor was off and clearly was the same exact problem during that long autorotation when it happened.
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Old Today, 03:47 AM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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This is my 450 flying style about 9 months ago and I'm getting much worse (hahaha).
Lots of high altitude and autorotations.
This is not my copterX flybarless heli just a stock flybarred Blade 450 3D.
It's a pretty fun ride if you're able to set it to 1080P and full screen
and if your tummy is compatible.
The HK450 has a 50amp ESC and a Helidrive motor and autos a bit nice than the flybarred heli.

Blade 450-3D Variety Pack Ride! (7 min 32 sec)
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Old Today, 08:31 AM
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kansas city
Joined Feb 2007
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Once you go Kbar you never go back lol!
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Old Today, 08:36 AM
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kansas city
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8LBV View Post
Are the other forgotten ones bad too?
Looks like a couple BeastX clones.
Heard those worked good.
Unless those ones failed.
The HK is the first version and it never felt locked in. I think they new that and right away came out with the #2

The Hobbymates my first one was great until my swash got stuck. Some how this seemed to fry the resolution right at hover. The second one never worked.
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Old Today, 10:21 AM
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Joined May 2014
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Hi N8LBV,
since I have upgraded to firmware 2.4 (maybe 1 year ago), they are working well. At least 40 lipos...
And indeed, I had the same king of behavior you explain with firmware 2.1. I had bought a Vbar in replacement, but never used it since I made the copterx works before I actually received the Vbar.

If you have a backup solution (another FBL controler that works fine) don't waste time with the copterx. Such bad things can happens...

If you want to try again, I can try to help with just my experience and simple questions.
My config : ESC 40A plush in governor mode. TX : Taranis with OrangeRx module, RX : OrangeRX. But I also used previously the very basic OrangeRx 6 channels TX. Servo : metal gear bought at HK for about 8$ each
Are you sure/certain you have the 2.4 firmware ? previous versions are not OK.
Have you fine tune everything in the FBL setup using the USB programming cable and the PC companion software ? There are 13 screens to check, it took me weeks to understand the meaning of all settings and to adjust the servo ranges and so on...
Have you set enough throttle ? Less throttle makes the heli unstable. With my scale fuselage, I had to increase the throttle a lot compare with the stock canopy, otherwise it is unstable.
My scale heli is more unstable with low batteries (so when throttle become also lower)

If you are sure of these points then don't make headache... try another model.
Hope it helps.
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Old Today, 02:13 PM
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United States, MI, Ann Arbor Charter Township
Joined Mar 2012
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Hello Benoit35!
Thanks!

Definitely 2.4 firmware I switched to that soon as it was released.
I've reset and started over numerous times.
I've had it on two different helis. Belt CP V2 and nicely built HK450.

I've definitely setup all in USB software and have played with settings for a long time.
Tried the different profiles basic F3C Advanced etc.
Tried all different gain & agility etc.
Nothing has ever made a difference in the random lurching..
I'm getting them in low RPM and high RPM throttle.

Am using 50amp esc and have idle0 1 and 2 for 60 80 and 100% speed.

Usually fly at 80 after lifting off.
And use idle2 (100%) for very insane punchouts if I have a high C (35 or better) lipo
on board.
Separate 2S 7.4Vbattery and BEC for electronics and servos.
Switched to that power system for troubleshooting at one point to rule out the single esc/bec not enough power etc.
made no difference, but I was able to put in a nicer dedicated 50amp ESC so I kept that config.
I also have plenty of power to spare for aux electronics in the future.
I'd like to put on lights and a hold/release device to take up marshmellows or paper airplanes and drop them from altitude.
It's a very good 3D flying machine if it didn't have the stupid jerking lurching problems. :-)
And power to spare to take up payloads and drop them :-)
Multi use copter!

Yeah I spent 2.5 years of & on in the software and trying things.

How I see/describe it:
"unstable" and these bad random lurches are two different things.
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Last edited by N8LBV; Today at 02:21 PM.
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