Apr 01, 2014, 09:42 PM
Victim of C.D.O.
United States, TX, Lubbock
Joined Oct 2007
4,055 Posts
Question
Howdacrap do I terminate ABC - YYYY??

I've been working with much frustration, and many re-re-re-windings on this 4035 motor. Finally got all the wires in all the right places.
Winding is 6 turn ABCx4. It's wound single tooth, which, from the image I generated, is the only way if I want YYYY.

So the big question is how to turn 24 wire ends into a YYYY motor?
I believe I need YYYY to get the KV up where I need (1250kv)
6 turns Y calculates out to 306kv. My understanding is that terminating YY will double the KV of a standard Y. So logic follows in my head that YYYY would quadruple it to 1224kv.

Do I take the end of A,B,C coils next to each other, and terminate them into a Y?
Then repeat with the other three ABC groups?
Or is it somehow distributed around the stator?

I've searched furiously for a clear explanation or image of YYYY, but haven't found it.

This is my third motor, and by far the one I've put the most labor into to get it packed with copper.
Other motors are a single Y and D termination and pretty simple.
So I'd really appreciate any guidance on this one.
I have a thread going for this motor, and really appreciate the help from the guys there.
But I need to get this termination issue resolved, and hope to get more exposure to the termination issue with this new thread.

Thanks!

# Images

 Apr 01, 2014, 10:09 PM Registered User Mexico, BC, Mexicali Joined Aug 2004 4,989 Posts You have 1 set Tooth 1,2,3. Start A . Link all Start A. Set 1,2,3,4= Phase 1 Red. Tooth 1,4,7,10. Start B. Link all Start B. Set 1,2,3,4= Phase 2 Blue. Tooth 2,5,8,11. Start C. Link all Start C. Set 1,2,3,4= Phase 3 green. Tooth 3,6,9,12. End A. join End ABC for First Y End B End C 2 set. Tooth 4,5,6. Start A Start B Start C End A Join End ABC For sec Y. End B End C 3rd set. Tooth 7,8,9. Start A Start B Start C End A Join End ABC for Trd, Y End B End C 4 set. Tooth 10,11,12. Start A Start B Start C End A Join End ABC for 4er Y. End B End C
Apr 01, 2014, 10:17 PM
Victim of C.D.O.
United States, TX, Lubbock
Joined Oct 2007
4,055 Posts
I know this picture is rainbow spaghetti, but here's how I'm thinking of it.
I think I understand what you're saying, Manuel, but just want to be VERY sure.
I do well with pictures.

# Images

 Apr 01, 2014, 11:41 PM Registered User Mexico, BC, Mexicali Joined Aug 2004 4,989 Posts I think Yes. Manuel V.
 Apr 02, 2014, 05:47 AM Registered User Joined Mar 2014 12 Posts Hi murdnunoc , I wouldn't do that. Each coil has just 6 windings. If you put them parallel to each other the current will be extremely high and/or the revs will be tremendous. I would put all blue coils in a row, all green ones and all red. Then connect the beginnings of these chains to each other as the center of the Y and connect the ends of them to the ESC. The more easy way is to wind all blue coils from one piece of wire, all green ones also and all red as well. Then You have to deal with just 6 ends of wire. At least this is the way I wind my motors.
Apr 02, 2014, 06:20 AM
Jack
USA, ME, Ellsworth
Joined May 2008
16,323 Posts
I think you guys have it right too. I looked at a image of a 12N8P ABCABCABC Y wind to plant the termination on that in my mind.

Then, thinking you need four of those, I gave every wire end on the ABC/ABC/ABC/ABC wind image a name.

Then I used those names to groups the ends into four Wye bundles of three wires each.

And then I grouped the starts into three bundles, one for each phase, for the motor lead ends.

And if I read it right, I think I have the same terminations as both of your guys. But it makes my head hurt and I am not sure.

12 WIRES IN FOUR STARTS

S1A
S1B
S1C

S2A
S2B
S2C

S3A
S3B
S3C

S4A
S4B
S4C

12 WIRES IN FOUR ENDS

E1A
E1B
E1C

E2A
E2B
E2C

E3A
E3B
E3C

E4A
E4B
E4C

FOUR WYE BUNDLES

E1A + E1B + E1C

E2A + E2B + E2C

E3A + E3B + E3C

S1A + S2A + S3A + S4A

S1B + S2B + S3B + S4B

S1C + S2C + S3C + S4C

I think the concept of all the ends having names that identifies them to start, end, and phase, makes it easier for my mind to keep track of the 24 individual ends and arrange them for termination. It is not to says that it is necessary or better, only that I've finally found something that helps me grasp the concepts better.

Updated image file posted: 2014-04-02 @ 1508

I've just posted an updated version of the wind image, I had omitted the Wye bundle for the 4th part of the motor in the terminations info.

Jack

# Images

Last edited by jackerbes; Apr 02, 2014 at 02:09 PM.
Apr 02, 2014, 09:31 AM
Victim of C.D.O.
United States, TX, Lubbock
Joined Oct 2007
4,055 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by no Depron Hi murdnunoc , I wouldn't do that. Each coil has just 6 windings. If you put them parallel to each other the current will be extremely high and/or the revs will be tremendous. I would put all blue coils in a row, all green ones and all red. Then connect the beginnings of these chains to each other as the center of the Y and connect the ends of them to the ESC. The more easy way is to wind all blue coils from one piece of wire, all green ones also and all red as well. Then You have to deal with just 6 ends of wire. At least this is the way I wind my motors.
That winds up with a standard Y termination. Easier, for sure
But 6 turns Y gets me 306kv. I need 1200+ to run 9s at 30K RPM.
SO YYYY is the only way I saw to still use large wire, fill the stator, and still get the high KV.

If there'd be a way to do it with less terminations, I'd be happy to do it on another wind.
 Apr 02, 2014, 09:41 AM Victim of C.D.O. United States, TX, Lubbock Joined Oct 2007 4,055 Posts Jack, I think I have a pretty good grasp on it now. At least enough to get out the soldering iron and cringe when I plug up an ESC. I used the image generator and put in a scheme of ABC--------- terminate Y Leaves 3 teeth wound, or 1 part of a 4 part motor, and 9 teeth blank but still shows the Y termination. That helped me get a pretty good handle on it.
 Apr 02, 2014, 09:42 AM Victim of C.D.O. United States, TX, Lubbock Joined Oct 2007 4,055 Posts Thank you, Manuel, No Depron and Jack, for the insight. I'm comfortable enough now to terminate it.
 Apr 02, 2014, 10:23 AM Jack USA, ME, Ellsworth Joined May 2008 16,323 Posts Good, let us know if you use the scheme above and it works. I think it will work because the wind image generator gives it a decent winding factor (0.866 or so) and no error messages. I would feel better if I thought I had finally figured it out too. Jack Latest blog entry: Motor Rewinding & Modification...
 Apr 02, 2014, 12:08 PM Victim of C.D.O. United States, TX, Lubbock Joined Oct 2007 4,055 Posts You bet I will, Jack. One more thing. Does it matter if I use the starts or the ends for the Y groups? As long as it's consistent, using only starts or only ends for the terminations? I've been thinking it doesn't matter but want to make sure.
Apr 02, 2014, 12:50 PM
Registered User
Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
4,989 Posts
Quote:
 Originally Posted by murdnunoc You bet I will, Jack. One more thing. Does it matter if I use the starts or the ends for the Y groups? As long as it's consistent, using only starts or only ends for the terminations? I've been thinking it doesn't matter but want to make sure.
I agree with you.

Manuel V.
 Apr 02, 2014, 02:08 PM Victim of C.D.O. United States, TX, Lubbock Joined Oct 2007 4,055 Posts Cool here comes the soldering iron
 Apr 02, 2014, 02:11 PM Jack USA, ME, Ellsworth Joined May 2008 16,323 Posts Good luck with it! And I just noticed that I had omitted the fourth Wye bundle in terminations info. I just added that to the image file above. Jack Latest blog entry: Motor Rewinding & Modification...
 Apr 02, 2014, 03:14 PM Registered User Mexico, BC, Mexicali Joined Aug 2004 4,989 Posts I have doubts when termination, with no short wires, welding tips and uncut amount superficially. (somewhat difficult as the long stator) then I test without load. if it works well, then dismount and prepare the final termination. Manuel V.