HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:04 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
1,992 Posts
After some time off due to me getting old (pulled chest and back muscles) and week long class for my job, i finally got some fly time in
...and it felt soooooo good.
walkera v450d01 3d dec 14 2012 (4 min 52 sec)


walkera v450d01 3d dec 14 2012 2 2 (8 min 52 sec)


walkera v450d01 3d getting low (4 min 29 sec)

i'm not sure if my trex got lower , video on my tube! i hope everyone has a great flyin weekend. get those cams out!
Heli Biggie is online now Find More Posts by Heli Biggie
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 14, 2012, 10:19 PM
Registered User
Joined Jun 2011
550 Posts
nice flying as usual biggie.....i pulled out my v450 yesterday after work and thought of having a hover in the back yard (u all know how even a hover in a small area cures ur itch dont u.... =p).....

half way spooling up i heard some cracking sound and immediately i put on throttle hold....what i found was the bearing of the main motor is broken!!! causing the motor shaft to wobble and broke the teeth on the gear.....bugger!!! and that motor had only less than 50 flights! one after another walkera! sick sick sick!

anyway, i pulled out my tarot 450's motor and put it on.....it says 3800kv on it....but man.....it felt like my v450 was on some kind of drugs or running on a 6s settings.....it was craaazzzyyy...or maybe just me not able to handle it.......

so i've bought a titan 3650kv motor to replace it.....hope it will last awhile...one question....if the pinion is more....does it make it faster or how does this number of t work?
eugenechong is offline Find More Posts by eugenechong
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 12:27 AM
Registered User
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,339 Posts
Adding teeth to the pinion makes the gear ratio higher. Which means, for every turn of your motor you'll go that number of extra teeth round the main gear in the same amount of time. That means your headspeed goes up.

Sadly, it's not quite that simple though because the amount of torque needed to overcome the the extra drag eventually means that you reach a limit and your headspeed plateaus and your motor current rises sharply.
The higher the KV of your motor the fewer teeth you need to maintain a headspeed and this should also reduce bogging however... that's all quite fine theoretically but since it's near impossible to get accurate, reliable specs on motors there's a bit of empirical work involved using 12-15T pinions, different motors and a tachometer.
I have a 3200KV motor and 13 or 14T pinion on mine.

Best thing to do is go google Headspeed Calculator and there you'll find a few utilities to show you your expected Headspeed with X teeth and Y KV motor.

In short, fewer pinion teeth = lower headspeed but less variation when pulling pitch all other things remaining constant.
thwaitm is online now Find More Posts by thwaitm
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:09 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Adding teeth to the pinion makes the gear ratio higher. Which means, for every turn of your motor you'll go that number of extra teeth round the main gear in the same amount of time. That means your headspeed goes up.

Sadly, it's not quite that simple though because the amount of torque needed to overcome the the extra drag eventually means that you reach a limit and your headspeed plateaus and your motor current rises sharply.
The higher the KV of your motor the fewer teeth you need to maintain a headspeed and this should also reduce bogging however... that's all quite fine theoretically but since it's near impossible to get accurate, reliable specs on motors there's a bit of empirical work involved using 12-15T pinions, different motors and a tachometer.
I have a 3200KV motor and 13 or 14T pinion on mine.

Best thing to do is go google Headspeed Calculator and there you'll find a few utilities to show you your expected Headspeed with X teeth and Y KV motor.

In short, fewer pinion teeth = lower headspeed but less variation when pulling pitch all other things remaining constant.
For this very reason i've been considering putting my Turbo Ace 804 back in my 450 now that i know for sure that the RX was the issue all along. But really, if it ain't broke..... The copterX 3550kv and a 13T pinion seems to hold up well enough. At least it keeps up with the limitations on what i can do with this gyro Which i suppose, is still quite a bit. I just think when tick tocking or something like that, the turbo ace should keep things running smoother because it's a 3950kv motor, running a 11T pinion i think things will run smoother. ugh. I just don't want to end up causing more problems. So i've even been thinking about getting a 4400kv Scorpion and running like a 9T pinion or something. Though, i'll probably just build a 480 devil with 6S before i do that. Can't go wrong with 360mm mains and a 6S pack! Damn heli looks crazy nice, Goblin clone type thing. Nice colors and different colors available. Call Alzrc a clone if you want. I'm calling them to make an order eventually
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 10:17 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heli Biggie View Post
After some time off due to me getting old (pulled chest and back muscles) and week long class for my job, i finally got some fly time in
...and it felt soooooo good.
http://youtu.be/zycxo0BVbqU

http://youtu.be/p2yJWk5765Y

http://youtu.be/xuMccZqJ_Qg
i'm not sure if my trex got lower , video on my tube! i hope everyone has a great flyin weekend. get those cams out!

I want your camera, it's always so damn clear. But youtube is being a pain for me right now. Does your gopro have a shutter speed control? I want to get one, but i'd really like it to have shutter speed control so i can slow it down to show a more natural "human eye" view of the helicopter's rotor when it's spinning. My camera does not have shutter speed controls and honestly looks like crap, even though it's 720p HD. Yeah, Nikon makes an OKAY camera. Just don't expect great video out of a coolpix lol.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 11:37 AM
Registered User
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,339 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post


So i've even been thinking about getting a 4400kv Scorpion and running like a 9T pinion or something. Though, i'll probably just build a 480 devil with 6S before i do that. Can't go wrong with 360mm mains and a 6S pack! Damn heli looks crazy nice, Goblin clone type thing. Nice colors and different colors available. Call Alzrc a clone if you want. I'm calling them to make an order eventually
Can you do 9T on a 3.17 shaft at M0.5? 11T already looks to be light on material keeping the teeth together!

As for clones... if it does what you want then I don't see the problem unless there's really theft of IP. Given how much of the V450 is compatible with the Trex 450 it's kind of too late to worry about flying a clone anyway!!
And it's does look nice!
thwaitm is online now Find More Posts by thwaitm
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 05:21 PM
They call me plan B
Heli Biggie's Avatar
United States, GA, Covington
Joined Mar 2011
1,992 Posts
For someone like you that likes alot of details i would go to go pro web site and read up on the new gopro 3! But mine has many settings i have never used yet, its got the 1080 and 720 ......ect.... And 3 zoom settings. I always wished it had a better zoom, but its ment to be a wearable camera. I tested out the waterproof shell and it worked out perfect, best video i ever saw. I have mounted it on the rc truck and 2 helis. And me! I noticed a scratch in the bomb proof case right at the lens but they were smart and made that replacable, so still the best cam so far, it does suck that it has no flash , so in doors or at night its bad,






Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
I want your camera, it's always so damn clear. But youtube is being a pain for me right now. Does your gopro have a shutter speed control? I want to get one, but i'd really like it to have shutter speed control so i can slow it down to show a more natural "human eye" view of the helicopter's rotor when it's spinning. My camera does not have shutter speed controls and honestly looks like crap, even though it's 720p HD. Yeah, Nikon makes an OKAY camera. Just don't expect great video out of a coolpix lol.
Heli Biggie is online now Find More Posts by Heli Biggie
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 06:39 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
Can you do 9T on a 3.17 shaft at M0.5? 11T already looks to be light on material keeping the teeth together!

As for clones... if it does what you want then I don't see the problem unless there's really theft of IP. Given how much of the V450 is compatible with the Trex 450 it's kind of too late to worry about flying a clone anyway!!
And it's does look nice!
Yeah, i have no idea. But at 4400kv i thought maybe Scorpion had smaller pinions. Thats a screaming motor! 4400kv with a 11T pinion would be something like 3600 rpm or higher with a full pack. Even 9T would be 3200 at the end of the flight! I think biggie has his Align motor geared up that high and the blades seem to be taking it. I want to just use the turbo ace 804 again. The main problem is there is not enough information provided by wow hobbies about it. I never really was able to determine the proper timing for the motor. I guess i could go though it all again.... but like i said the copterX motor holds it's own with a 13T pinion. So, i'll wait till i'm really board and both 450s are flying again. They were this morning. I flew all afternoon with both of them. Then later i was driving by and stopped for another few flights. Everything was going fine, till all of a sudden my tail belt snapped on the Y-V450. I swear, EVERY v450 has to haze you before it will fly reliably. I really believe that. It was my fault for not checking or replacing the belt after the last few tail gear drive failures. The part of the belt that broke was very worn and had almost no teeth left on it. I'm surprised i didn't notice tail kicking or something. It was frayed very badly and you could see the strings inside the belt for a long length of it, about 3 inches. I thought i noticed it one day when i was oiling the bearings. I knew i should have taken the extra steps! Oh well. If you guys didn't know by now. I'm either the most skilled crasher/throttle cutter or the most lucky crasher around. Because this crash, far as i can tell. Besides MORE chipping on my yellow canopy after repainting it the other night! My liner mod kept it from shattering AGAIN though! (FYI, sand the surface of the canopy with 200 grit before painting! It won't chip as easy as mine has been) The blades both broke in half on impact. No other damage besides the tail belt that i can see. The main shaft may even be okay lol. The one good thing about those cheap FRP blades is they just freaking explode on impact. The main gear survives another crash! I don't know how i keep doing this!?!? I didn't get any video of the crash flight because i didn't bring the camera, as i didn't expect to be stopping.
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 15, 2012, 08:18 PM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,917 Posts
Well here were the better flights on the Y-V450 today. Biggie had me wanting to try some really low flips and things. Worked out okay, but it's scary! lol. Not to much more of that till i get more precise with the controls. I had a few little anxiety moments where i just jolted the sticks. Much more comfortable 20+ feet above the ground trying to do hurricanes! That worked out well today too!

Y-V450D01C - It's back, the yellow V450 soars! (5 min 15 sec)


Y-V450D01C - Low 3D & Hurricane practice (4 min 57 sec)


Y-V450D01C - HURRICANES, YUP! (4 min 54 sec)
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:30 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
342 Posts
Yesterday i had two strange crashs.
First on the v450 during a slow flight the shaft of the brushless motor broke apart.
I was able to land the bird safely without further damage.
Next flight the Master CP the same thing happend again, shaft from the brushless motor broke and the copter crashed into the mud.
On both birds the pionion and shaft were stuck in the frame...
So what did we do, i cut of 2 hex-drivers an used this to for a replacement shaft

Best steel-quality, this shafts will never ever break again
addifromgermany is offline Find More Posts by addifromgermany
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:41 AM
Registered User
Mitchie's Avatar
Canada, QC, Gatineau
Joined Jan 2011
1,250 Posts
That happened to me once, I discovered that I had the motor too tight against the main gear.
Mitchie is online now Find More Posts by Mitchie
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 07:56 AM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
342 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchie View Post
That happened to me once, I discovered that I had the motor too tight against the main gear.
This is sometimes the reason but not for these 2 crashs, i know how tight it has to be and checking this before every first flight a day. I stays a miracle
addifromgermany is offline Find More Posts by addifromgermany
Last edited by addifromgermany; Dec 16, 2012 at 08:12 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 11:58 AM
IHW Heli Division
IntegrityHndywrk's Avatar
United States, FL, Palm Coast
Joined Mar 2012
5,917 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by addifromgermany View Post
Yesterday i had two strange crashs.
First on the v450 during a slow flight the shaft of the brushless motor broke apart.
I was able to land the bird safely without further damage.
Next flight the Master CP the same thing happend again, shaft from the brushless motor broke and the copter crashed into the mud.
On both birds the pionion and shaft were stuck in the frame...
So what did we do, i cut of 2 hex-drivers an used this to for a replacement shaft

Best steel-quality, this shafts will never ever break again
Nice job. It's good you were able to replace them without bending the bell or damaging the motors. Just FYI, you do need 0.1mm (hair thin) gap between the pinion and main gear. I know you said you already know this. But, you should also be aware that most plastic main gears are NOT perfectly round. So you MUST check the gear mesh the whole way around the main gear. Otherwise you end up with a rapid push/pull motion on the tip of the motor shaft and pinion as the main gear spins around. It will likely start to bend and then break rapidly under those conditions. You might have set a gap, but you need to make sure there is no pressure as the gear spins.

The Walkera motor shafts are just butter soft. They run VERY hot too. The heat softens the motor shaft wile it's running. If you make sure, every 5 flights, oil your motor bearings it will help a little. But these shafts are too soft and the motor runs too hot. It will eventually break, and honestly in a relatively short service life no matter what you do. Just like every single other component on the V450. I Estimate that most Walkera 450 electronics have about a 5 hour service life, maybe a little more. MAYBE. IMO, This is why i won't buy their stuff anymore except to fix the PILES of helicopter i currently own. Walkera builds their stuff like this on purpose for job security and exponential gains on parts sales for their busted ass helicopters that rookies are to inexperienced to understand, it wasn't their fault! I'm 100% convinced this is part of their business model. Because they never attempt to fix the massively reported problems that everyone seems to get in relatively short order. Just look at the "New" V450D01 for instance. They know the problems people had with these servos. NO ONE WILL EVER SAY THEY ARE GOOD SERVOS. They are the worst, of the worst, of the worst! Period. They knew everyone, that enjoy flying this heli still anyway, were using upgraded Align/Savox servos, getting a new ESC and over all loving the helicopter after that. People use Align main gears and other compatible parts which are CHEAPER IN COST than Walkera's crap. REALLY, it's true. Align parts are often cheaper than Walekra because Walkera wants to sell you ONLY the whole rotor head. ONLY the whole OWB assembly, ONLY the main gear and AR gear together in a pair. Making repairs costly and producing an excess of parts you don't need..... So what does Walkera do? They re release the SAME helicopter with the SAME faulty servos and the SAME faulty ESC. But they "Upgrade" the RX/gyro to a pile of garbage 6 axis gyro that causes crashes for experienced pilots, in general, and on top of that it does not have gyro reverse switches, so installing Savox/Align servos are now out of the question. Like that wasn't part of Walkera's plan..... BASTARDS...Lucky for those people. There are other cheap servos that fit and work. But they are cheap and probably don't work as well as Align/Savox servos and they definitely don't have the gear sets and parts support like Align/Savox do, you know, right at my LHS where i can pick them up locally instead of having to order them from china, or whatever. Though i don't know. I suppose any servo is better than the 09-8 or the 09-9 "upgrade MGS" servo. Because they are just a train wreck waiting to happen. Sorry.... /end rant


Two months in, over 70 flights on my X5 and not a single glitch or problem yet. No maintenance at all except for oiling the bearings. I'm sure that Align or any other kit, or well put together clone, with good electronics, will operate just the same! THANK YOU WALKERA FOR WASTING MY TIME AND MONEY!
IntegrityHndywrk is online now Find More Posts by IntegrityHndywrk
Last edited by IntegrityHndywrk; Dec 16, 2012 at 12:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 03:26 PM
Registered User
Apphoard's Avatar
Joined Mar 2011
462 Posts
I have a 2801 PRO and a BNIB RX-2608 that will not bind. I did the memory clean on the RX and seems to have cleared. What do I do after that unplug it and try binding again right? Because that is not working. I figured one of you guys may know how to get it to work. I have another one that binds just fine with that model memory.
Thanks for your help guys!
Apphoard is offline Find More Posts by Apphoard
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 16, 2012, 04:00 PM
Registered User
Joined Sep 2012
342 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntegrityHndywrk View Post
Nice job. It's good you were able to replace them without bending the bell or damaging the motors. Just FYI, you do need 0.1mm (hair thin) gap between the pinion and main gear. I know you said you already know this. But, you should also be aware that most plastic main gears are NOT perfectly round. So you MUST check the gear mesh the whole way around the main gear. Otherwise you end up with a rapid push/pull motion on the tip of the motor shaft and pinion as the main gear spins around. It will likely start to bend and then break rapidly under those conditions. You might have set a gap, but you need to make sure there is no pressure as the gear spins.

The Walkera motor shafts are just butter soft. They run VERY hot too. The heat softens the motor shaft wile it's running. If you make sure, every 5 flights, oil your motor bearings it will help a little. But these shafts are too soft and the motor runs too hot. It will eventually break, and honestly in a relatively short service life no matter what you do. Just like every single other component on the V450. I Estimate that most Walkera 450 electronics have about a 5 hour service life, maybe a little more. MAYBE. IMO, This is why i won't buy their stuff anymore except to fix the PILES of helicopter i currently own. Walkera builds their stuff like this on purpose for job security and exponential gains on parts sales for their busted ass helicopters that rookies are to inexperienced to understand, it wasn't their fault! I'm 100% convinced this is part of their business model. Because they never attempt to fix the massively reported problems that everyone seems to get in relatively short order. Just look at the "New" V450D01 for instance. They know the problems people had with these servos. NO ONE WILL EVER SAY THEY ARE GOOD SERVOS. They are the worst, of the worst, of the worst! Period. They knew everyone, that enjoy flying this heli still anyway, were using upgraded Align/Savox servos, getting a new ESC and over all loving the helicopter after that. People use Align main gears and other compatible parts which are CHEAPER IN COST than Walkera's crap. REALLY, it's true. Align parts are often cheaper than Walekra because Walkera wants to sell you ONLY the whole rotor head. ONLY the whole OWB assembly, ONLY the main gear and AR gear together in a pair. Making repairs costly and producing an excess of parts you don't need..... So what does Walkera do? They re release the SAME helicopter with the SAME faulty servos and the SAME faulty ESC. But they "Upgrade" the RX/gyro to a pile of garbage 6 axis gyro that causes crashes for experienced pilots, in general, and on top of that it does not have gyro reverse switches, so installing Savox/Align servos are now out of the question. Like that wasn't part of Walkera's plan..... BASTARDS...Lucky for those people. There are other cheap servos that fit and work. But they are cheap and probably don't work as well as Align/Savox servos and they definitely don't have the gear sets and parts support like Align/Savox do, you know, right at my LHS where i can pick them up locally instead of having to order them from china, or whatever. Though i don't know. I suppose any servo is better than the 09-8 or the 09-9 "upgrade MGS" servo. Because they are just a train wreck waiting to happen. Sorry.... /end rant


Two months in, over 70 flights on my X5 and not a single glitch or problem yet. No maintenance at all except for oiling the bearings. I'm sure that Align or any other kit, or well put together clone, with good electronics, will operate just the same! THANK YOU WALKERA FOR WASTING MY TIME AND MONEY!
On my v450 nearly everything is updatet, 2703 RX, KDS Servos, Roxxy ESC and now a motor with high class shaft :-) It flyes pretty well and at least id did not spent much money for it :-)
addifromgermany is offline Find More Posts by addifromgermany
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted Walkera 400d or Walkera Brushless Cb100 or Heli max 6 channel heli blueindian Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Jul 07, 2010 08:03 PM
Discussion Walkera 4#6 or Walkera 4#6s? red_storm Micro Helis 8 Jul 07, 2010 12:17 AM
Discussion Upgrade my Walkera 4#3B or just get a Walkera 4#6? tumble2k Micro Helis 7 Mar 26, 2010 07:30 PM
For Sale Walkera 68 & Walkera 36 Parts bretware Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 0 Aug 29, 2009 05:23 PM
Wanted Walkera Lama2 or Walkera 5G6-1 night_life Aircraft - Electric - Helis (FS/W) 2 Aug 27, 2009 04:20 AM