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Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:37 PM
Registered User
Sydney Kingsford, Australia
Joined Feb 2004
203 Posts
Question
Is it possible to combine High Speed with 3D?

Hey Guys,

I have a question for everyone. Is it possible to combine high speed with 3D style aerobatics?

My interest was first sparked by seeing videos of the F27Q Stryker. I thought it looked really cool being able to scream along at 200 km/h and then go into an inverted flat spin! I bought one but found it wasn't my cup of tea.

That being said this is a direction I'd love to take my flying in. So my question is any suggestions on airframes or are these two styles mutually exclusive?

Don't get me wrong I love going fast but it would be great to add aerobatics and rudders to my skill set!

Happy new year guys.

All the Best

Danny
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Old Jan 01, 2013, 09:56 PM
This is BAT country!
Gonzo 1971's Avatar
United States, MI, Ovid
Joined Nov 2003
662 Posts
http://www.precisionaerobatics.com/p...ls.php?pid=691
Depends on how much 3d and how fast I suppose. That kind of light envelope is asking a lot from one plane. I have noticed that the new generation of 3d planes can haul azz!
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 03:54 AM
Wake up, feel pulse, be happy!
C₄H₁₀'s Avatar
United States, AK, Fairbanks
Joined Aug 2009
12,527 Posts
Well, let's see...

True 3D flying is largely reliant on a plane's ability to fly in a post-stall condition, e.g., the bulk of the lift is coming from the prop rather than the wings. For this you need a prop and motor that will produce a lot of thrust at low speeds, which is difficult (read: takes huge power) to get a lot of speed out of. You'd need large control surfaces with high deflections to get the requisite maneuverability, which would require very powerful servos, beefy linkages, and strong hinging. The wing loading would have to be low so that the plane can "float" and snap around easily, so you need a lot of wing area.

I think real 3D flying naturally requires low speeds, and the planes' characteristics themselves are quite mutually exclusive. A lot of 3D maneuvers can only be performed at low speeds anyway.

Non-3D aerobatics, however, can certainly still be performed with very fast planes at very high speeds. The various demo videos by the NanoPlanes crew are an excellent example (with one hell of an unbelievable pilot), but any decent-quality fast bird should be able to fly like that if you want. Most pylon airframes will be surprisingly good at it by design.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 05:37 AM
310mph Kolibri T25 Swist
henke's Avatar
Sverige, Kronobergs Lδn, Ljungby
Joined Jan 2001
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Doing this would give you an airplane not very fast capable of poor 3D. The stryker is slow and can not do 3D. A flatspin is not 3D.

The closest you will get is the vector thrust jetp lanes, but is that really 3D? well... sort of but still not done by the airframe but rather the vector nozzle.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 06:00 AM
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perttime's Avatar
Tampere, Finland
Joined Nov 2004
4,339 Posts
If you stop calling it 3D, and say Freestyle, you can do pretty impressive things.

RC Kolibri Turbine powered Opus at Blackbush 2010 (2 min 39 sec)


(almost impossible to catch on video, though)
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 06:03 AM
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Sydney Kingsford, Australia
Joined Feb 2004
203 Posts
C4H10,

I just watched the videos of the NanoPlanes. Sweet mother of God! I'll definitely send these guys an email.

Just to clarify while I realise Full 3D (like hovering for example) would be tough, what I'm talking about is aerobatic tricks using the rudder.

I've been toying with putting rudders on my SpeedWing mk250 v2, but I'm just wondering what other options are out there?

Again guys many thanks.

Danny
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 06:07 AM
Registered User
Sydney Kingsford, Australia
Joined Feb 2004
203 Posts
Perttime,

Buddy - I have one word to say - Wow!!!!! I would shudder to think what loads that airframe is pushing!

That's the direction I'm talking about!

All the Best

Danny
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 06:16 AM
186mph Funjet Ultra
E-speed buff's Avatar
nieuw vennep, the netherlands
Joined Feb 2010
514 Posts
I have to agree with henke! the closest you can get is with an twin EDF with thrust vectoring like the Sebart Mig29TV. It can even hover!
Your flight times will be short however.

Grtz Renι
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 06:32 AM
Aka: Tom Jenkins
ApexAero's Avatar
Palm Beach County, Fl.
Joined Aug 2008
4,507 Posts
I guess none of you have heard of the Fantastic Flying Machine?
Don Muddiman was my mentor for RC stunt before they called it 3D, used to do lunch time demos at Top Gun.
http://www.eagle-i.us/fm/
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 09:48 AM
310mph Kolibri T25 Swist
henke's Avatar
Sverige, Kronobergs Lδn, Ljungby
Joined Jan 2001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan the man View Post
Just to clarify while I realise Full 3D (like hovering for example) would be tough, what I'm talking about is aerobatic tricks using the rudder.
Danny
Then the Opus would be a great choice. It's capable of going fast and can handle the G's. The thicker wing houses larger servos capable of more throw without flutter.

If not powering it with a turbine choose the Kontronik Pryo motors and a 6S pack for good speed and the aerobatics you are after.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:02 AM
I am actually really slow
SlowBarless's Avatar
Brisbane
Joined Jun 2008
976 Posts
Why not grab yourself an F3A type plane, they are fairly slippery and most of them can go as far as hovering and harrier rolls etc. You're never really gonna get F5D speeds and 3D maneuvers in one package
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 10:34 AM
Drinks Day Old Expired Milk
VooDoo Child's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Aug 2010
2,834 Posts
I had my eye on the Prizm from Icare seeing how I am very into speed and aerobatics,it has a rudder and is a nice size,just not much info on it out there.
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 11:33 AM
One Idiot is plenty...
Dbox's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Jun 2005
5,258 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by VooDoo Child View Post
I had my eye on the Prizm from Icare seeing how I am very into speed and aerobatics,it has a rudder and is a nice size,just not much info on it out there.
Wing is pretty thick and guys reported ,plane is not as impressive as it looks.
Yuri
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 02:56 PM
Drinks Day Old Expired Milk
VooDoo Child's Avatar
United States, OR, Portland
Joined Aug 2010
2,834 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbox View Post
Wing is pretty thick and guys reported ,plane is not as impressive as it looks.
Yuri
Sounds like when I get to Portland,we need to get working on a new high-speed Aerobatic airframe to spank the Opus
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Old Jan 02, 2013, 05:46 PM
Registered User
Sydney Kingsford, Australia
Joined Feb 2004
203 Posts
Hey Guys,

As always excellent suggestions. I'll definitely have a good think about all these options because they all look good in their own way.

VooDoo - I can't wait to see your work sir - Looking forward to it.

However by all means keep the suggestions rolling in. Looking at the response to this thread This has definitely sparked some interest!

Danny
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