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Old Oct 29, 2007, 04:02 PM
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Executve Council actions

Since all three of you candidates are current members of the Executive Council, I intend to ask each of you this question. What is the story on the Steve Kaluf matter? I understand it was discussed in an Executive Council meeting. What was your opinion and how did you vote? I can't find any record of the alleged discussion in the Executive Council minutes.

I haven't sent in my ballot yet and would like to know your feelings.

Bruce AMA70481
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Old Oct 30, 2007, 10:34 AM
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Bruce,
The situation with Steve Kaluf is an internal personnel matter and I simply cannot comment on it due to confidentiality restrictions.

I understand how some may feel that they are "owed" greater insight into the details, but the plain fact is that this is not a public matter and various state and federal laws restrict what information can be released.
Rich
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Old Oct 30, 2007, 11:30 AM
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Conover, OH
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Thanks for your reply. I'm sure you have seen my comments to Bill.

I can appreciate it not being a public matter, but I guess I don't necessarily consider the AMA membership "the public", especially in matters such as this. Actions of the unelected AMA management and of the EC which are deemed above scrutiny, in my opinion, could invite abuse. I can see the wisdom of not reporting personnel actions at lower levels than Steve's, but after all Steve was at a highly visible level in the organization.

I appreciate your reply, and understand somewhat your inability to address the situation.

As I said to Bill, it is what it is.

Thanks,

Bruce AMA70481
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Old Nov 06, 2007, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruceher
I can appreciate it not being a public matter, but I guess I don't necessarily consider the AMA membership "the public", especially in matters such as this. Actions of the unelected AMA management and of the EC which are deemed above scrutiny, in my opinion, could invite abuse. I can see the wisdom of not reporting personnel actions at lower levels than Steve's, but after all Steve was at a highly visible level in the organization.
Look at it like this. I have been an employee of many companies over the years, and many times the empoyees of the company or the stock holders of the company do not know the exact reasons a person (including folks that were in prominant positions) was let go. So, this is not exactly a situation that is limited to the AMA.

Ryan
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Old Nov 06, 2007, 03:13 PM
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I would like to see the specific law and statutes that prohibits the release of said information.
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Old Nov 06, 2007, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by PLATINUM
I would like to see the specific law and statutes that prohibits the release of said information.
We don't know what the information is that is to be released...

I'm not going to do any research into this (I always get too overboard on this stuff). I'm only going to recap my experience as a manager of programmers at a large American company. When we had to let an employee go, for whatever reason, HR always instructed us to be very tight with the information we gave out. This was especially true of layoffs.

Ryan
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Old Nov 08, 2007, 08:12 PM
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You are forgetting.. WE are all owners of said company. Which means WE have a right to transparent information where the law permits.

If there is a Law and/or Statute there then fine. But if that is just being used so the information is not being brought to light then WE should all be very concerned about what our leadership is doing.
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Old Nov 08, 2007, 09:13 PM
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Hey Plat,

How do you know what I do and don't remember?

At the company I worked at where HR advised us to give out limited information, many of the people that worked for me were owners just as we are owners of the AMA....

Ryan
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 04:30 PM
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In a for profit company.. sure.. close your trap and keep your job.

In the AMA which is a non profit.. owned by all its members.. utuh.. I am pretty sure no one with any real info will post anyways.

People these days don't care about what the right thing to do is, they only care about what is easiest. It is no wonder AMAs membership level continues to shrink year over year.
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Old Nov 09, 2007, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
In a for profit company.. sure.. close your trap and keep your job.

In the AMA which is a non profit.. owned by all its members.. utuh.. I am pretty sure no one with any real info will post anyways.

People these days don't care about what the right thing to do is, they only care about what is easiest. It is no wonder AMAs membership level continues to shrink year over year.
Mt wife works for a non-profit hospital organization. 501-c-3 and all. She works in the office that does fundraising and they are organized much like the AMA. There is a volunteer Board of Directors, and Executive Director, and the rest of the paid staff.

Trust me, personnel decisions are 100% the venue of the ED and NOBODY is allowed to disclose anything to anybody regarding anything other than the dates of employment.

We as members do not "own" the AMA per se. The way it is organized an chartered it really has no owners. In fact, a stockholder of a company is more of an owner than we as members are of the AMA.

I am just still fascinated by this whole thing and how so many people are so steadfast in their incorrect insistence that they should be privy to the ins and outs of everything that happens within the AMA.

Oh well.
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Old Nov 11, 2007, 02:04 AM
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Again.. SHOW me the statutes, laws or even something that the AMA council put in writing that says we the members don't have a right to transparency. If its there.. At that point I would look at AMA as beaurucratic bs.. trying to cover its own butt.

A hospital org is NOTHING like AMA.. we fly expensive toys.. they deal with decisions that could change someones personal life. You have patient doctor privacy issues.. drug research..its not even close to what we do.

If you want to make a comparison..It's like saying the Boy Scouts have some sort of privacy policy where parents don't get to know why a scout master was suddenly removed.

Reality is there is probably not a statute, law.. or policy.. other than that good ol boy statute that gets used allot in the AMA. One more reason to demand transparency and put to death the old ways of the AMA.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PLATINUM
Again.. SHOW me the statutes, laws or even something that the AMA council put in writing that says we the members don't have a right to transparency. If its there.. At that point I would look at AMA as beaurucratic bs.. trying to cover its own butt.
Do your own research. You are getting wearisome. Do a little checking with local personnel firms, etc. See what the actual practice is for American businesses. You simply refuse to accept that the AMA has not done anything out of the ordinary here. You lack of acceptance however, does not mean that you are right.



Quote:
A hospital org is NOTHING like AMA.. we fly expensive toys.. they deal with decisions that could change someones personal life. You have patient doctor privacy issues.. drug research..its not even close to what we do.
On the contrary, both are IRS 501 (c)3 organizations and subject to the same laws and standards of practice. And none of what I referenced had anything to do with patient confidentiality. I was speaking about personnel issues. My wife works in an administrative role with no real contact with the medical staff. So in fact, her experience is directly applicable to this issue.


Quote:
If you want to make a comparison..It's like saying the Boy Scouts have some sort of privacy policy where parents don't get to know why a scout master was suddenly removed.
WOW, talk about apples and oranges. More like apples and aircraft carriers. You do know that a Scoutmaster is an unpaid volunteer position, right? Paid staff are entirely different.


Quote:
Reality is there is probably not a statute, law.. or policy.. other than that good ol boy statute that gets used allot in the AMA. One more reason to demand transparency and put to death the old ways of the AMA.

Once again, your inability to understand current business practices and legal restrictions only means that you are ignorant of the situation, not that anyone else is wrong.

I'm done with this. It is impossible to discuss an issue with someone who refuses to accept reality and feels that this is manifest evidence of wrongdoing on the part of those that they are ranting against.
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Old Nov 12, 2007, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
If you want to make a comparison..It's like saying the Boy Scouts have some sort of privacy policy where parents don't get to know why a scout master was suddenly removed.
I have worked with the Boy Scouts some, and I suspect that they might not neccesarily let parents of a troup know why a scout master was removed.

Ryan
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R
Do your own research. You are getting wearisome. Do a little checking with local personnel firms, etc. See what the actual practice is for American businesses. You simply refuse to accept that the AMA has not done anything out of the ordinary here. You lack of acceptance however, does not mean that you are right.
You are the one arguing these nondisclosures exist.. it is your burden to prove it. If you can't then your argument holds little or no weight other than your comparisons to what you know about your wife.


Btw.. here is the answer from the man who got fired. If you do not think that this is a reason for transparency in the AMA.. I don't know what the hell is!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6253996
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLATINUM
Btw.. here is the answer from the man who got fired. If you do not think that this is a reason for transparency in the AMA.. I don't know what the hell is!

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=6253996
First, I have met both Jim Cherry (executive director) and Steve Kaluf....

I'm sure there is more to the issue than a few posts on the Al Gore. This issue is being handled no differently from the perspective of "informing the rank and file" from a management position than any of the terminations I have been involved in (all in the state of Indiana). It is an unfortunate situation, but often a part of life. I do wish Steve the best. He is a cool cat.

Ryan
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