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Old Jul 16, 2002, 12:51 AM
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Eco 8, Piccolo, Hornet... what to choose?

I am a total newb to the art of flying r/c helicopters. At first I set my sights on a gas pwoered Century Hawk, only to discover the intensive labor and resources needed to learn and maintain the machine. I knew that my small knowledge of tools would never allow me to find all the necessary parts and still be able to put it together properly. Without any local guidance from which I could figure out this burden, I turned away from the subject unnhapilly.

This is when I happened uppon the electrics. At first I was skeptical of how much less power an electric would have as opposed to a gas and how long it would be able to fly. I was shockingly pleased to see that the cost of an electric as opposed to a gas was much less, when the extra parts to maintain and build a gas are considered. So now I am researching all I can about electric helicopters. Searching numerous web sites and these message boards for tips and suggestion about the variouse helis that seem to be best. I have centered around three. The Eco 8, the Piccolo, and the hornet. It seems the eco 8 has a more long time benefit and I hope to learn the advanced skills that this heli offers. I am windering if anyone can help me to as the differences between these helicopters, pros and cons for a begginer that has little knowledge of this hobbie. My building skills are some what limited but I am willing to learn. Collective pitch, blade balancing and terms are new and confusing to me. ANy web sites, tips or recommendations would be a tremendous help.
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 09:37 AM
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The Hornet and Piccolo are micro indoor heli's. They are not the easiest heli's to fly but if you really want ot fly indoors either can be a good choice.

The Eco 8 is a much larger heli and is very competent but can be expensive to crash !

In the eco 8 class the Logo 10 is a much favored alternative at the moment.

Both the eco 8 and Logo are collective pitch machines that can be very expensive to crash.

One of the most robust elec heli's to learn on is the Corona, a fixed pitch heli that will take a lot of abuse, works with cheap 4ch radio and is cheap to fix.

You may find the Corona is the right machine for you to learn on then upgrade to the Logo 10 or similar when you're ready.

BTW, collective pitch means the angle of the main blades is changed to increase or decrease lift. With fixed pitch you speed up or slow down the blades to achieve the same effect. CP is more responsive and is a desirable feature but generally requires a heli radio with mixing features and the model itself is a lot more complex to trim correctly and tend to be a lot more fragile when you crash, (which as you learn, you will !).
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 10:57 AM
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FIrst welcome to the zone. Youll find this is a very helpful board as is the ikarus or MS ones should you choose thos choppers.

Ive owned the piccolo, hornet, eco 8, raptor (IC) and just ordered a cornona.

The best chopper for you kinda depends on your environment. Do you have access to a large open, indoor area (big basement, big 2-3 car garage to fly in? If you do, then a piccolo is your best bet. Its not the easiest to fly, but if you can master flying it, youll have no problems when its time to move to a large machine. With the pic, youll also be able to fly every day if you wanted. It is durable, and you are not scared to push it and your skills b/c you wont hurt it (too bad) in a crash. You can easily learn all types of hover (nose-in too) and easy circuits with the piccolo. There is also lots of help on the net for ANY problem you would every have with it.

The hornet is in no way a beginner chopper. Dont even think about it. Dont get me wrong, it flys when its setup ok, but its flying ability in its FP form is no better than the piccolo's (i'll probably catch some flack for this one, but as far as I could tell, its true). Plus, when you crash it, youll have more parts to fix and more readjusting to do just b/c its got more parts.

The eco 8 is a great heli and in its stock form will easily take you into fast forward flight (FFF) and stall turns. You can upgrade it into a fully competant 3D machine, but that takes lots of money. This of course, is more fragile than any of others and takes more setting up, but the jump in performance is worth it.

As for the corona I cant really speak for it b/c mines in the mail....but, if you dont have a large indoor place to fly a piccolo, this is probably what you should get. Its very durable, and can handle the wind better than the piccolo can. I would imagine its only downfall is that if you are hoping mother nature will provide you with suitable flying weather whenever you want to fly......for me that was not possible and thats why I think the pic is so good to learn with--you can fly all the time and thats what it takes to get good.

Good luck!

Scott
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 10:57 AM
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I think you may have more success with a gas helicopter. I just recently got a Raptor 50 and a Hirobo Shuttle RG and love them both. I learned auto's with the Raptor within 30 minutes of flying (tuning issues) they were so terribly simple with the higher head speed. So far I've found that the gas heli's are easier to take care of and they're a bit more durable then most CP machines and SO MUCH MORE STABLE. A Raptor will take you from training right into advanced 3D without any upgrades and the parts are insanely cheap...more so then my Piccolo it seems.



If you go electric you may want to look at a Corona.
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 10:59 AM
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As for nitro, I would stay away from it unless you have experience with internal combustion motors. That just one more variable you dont need to deal with when learning. On the other hand that are fantastic choppers and the parts are cheap!

Scott
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 11:14 AM
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Stay away from the Piccolo and Hornet. They are not easy to fly compared to larger ones.

The Eco8 is a decent choice. However, don't think that just because it is electric you'll find it easier to build. There is no ARF version of it so you'll have to totally assemble it first time. Believe me, there's plenty of places you could go wrong in the build and setup.

I wouldn't discount the Hawk IV. They fly really nice. The ARF version will come with a lot of the assembly already done. An OS .32 engine in it will be virtually trouble free.

In either case, get a computer simulator first and learn to hover on it. That's really the key to minimizing newbie frustration...

-edg-
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 11:57 AM
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The way it sounds to me, you need a corona. The eco, although tons of fun, is delicate. When you are a begginger, you're almots garaunteed to crash. The corona can put up with it, the eco cannot.

The micros, like the piccolo and hornet, are fun, but not as strong. They will put up with some abuse, but they are expensive to fix. A tail boom for my hornet was $19. I could buy two booms and shipping with that for my Eco, which is about 10 time bigger!!!
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by rdogg32
The way it sounds to me, you need a corona. The eco, although tons of fun, is delicate. When you are a begginger, you're almots garaunteed to crash. The corona can put up with it, the eco cannot.

The micros, like the piccolo and hornet, are fun, but not as strong. They will put up with some abuse, but they are expensive to fix. A tail boom for my hornet was $19. I could buy two booms and shipping with that for my Eco, which is about 10 time bigger!!!

I could say the same about my Raptor. The ECO 8 tail boom is like a beer can while the Raptors boom is really strong and $6
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 01:19 PM
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The raptor and piccolo definetly have cheaper parts than a eco 8, corona, or hornet. As far as an ARF is concerned, building choppers is really pretty easy and its more important that you build it b/c then you know how all the parts go together and if you have problem you are better off.

The piccolo is darn tough and the parts are very few and very cheap. It is a little tougher to fly, but easier on the mind b/c you dont have much money floating around up there and your willing to take chances and push yourself. The corona is also very tough. I would choose one of these based on where you fly at, how often ect ect..

I good flight sim is also very handy.

Scott
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
I could say the same about my Raptor. The ECO 8 tail boom is like a beer can while the Raptors boom is really strong and $6
Thats true, and I don't get it! Why does it get cheaper as we go bigger??? Makes no sense! Oh well, it works as an excuse "but I need the bigger one, it's cheaper!!"
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 04:33 PM
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I think it's because the bigger gas helicopters are more widely used so they make more...thus the price drops.
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 05:04 PM
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going small...

Anytime you miniaturize something, whether it be electronic or mechanical, the costs associated with producing a component with increasing precision escalates.

Also, the design of some components do not render themselves to be easily replaced by some other COTS solution.

Case in point is the Hornet Tail Boom, two different O.Ds at the ends. Does not make it feasible for replacement from say Arrow shafting (as some have tried). The primary reason is that MS decided to make shouldered ends on the boom, one end is actually a reduced shoulder.

Simply using a tapered boom will not work as the boom will have a loose fit.

Being smaller also has a distinct disadvantage, smaller components tend to be more fragile as they need to be optimized for weight...durability suffers in this arena.

Roger
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Old Jul 16, 2002, 07:24 PM
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All this info is helping tremendously. Ive gotten the impression to stay away from the hornet which I might have ended up getting without your help. I do not really have a large indoor area to fly with so it seems the piccolo might not be my best bet. I am going to look more into the corona and logo 10 that I can fly outside when there is little wind. Where might I find a good place to buy these as hobby lobby doesnt seem to carry them. Also is a gyro really worth it. I would like to know what is a good simulator to get and will it work with many helicopters or just a few. Also is theree a hook up to the computer from the radio that i might also need to buy.
brad
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Old Jul 17, 2002, 11:22 AM
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While I haven't flown either a Corona or Logo, from what I've heard the Corona may be the the best choice due to it's toughness. However, since it's fixed pitch, you may outgrow it quickly. The Logo 10 I'm sure would also be an excellent choice, but more expensive (esp if crashed).

Don't even THINK about trying to fly without a gyro :-) The Futaba 240 or 401 is the one to get.

The Realflight G2 (or G2 Lite) Simulator is a good one. I believe it comes with a controller.

-edg-
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Old Jul 17, 2002, 11:36 AM
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You wont do much of any flying without a gyro...
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