Come on down and pay us a visit sometime! This coming weekend would be a great time - we're having a camp-out! www.elifield.com

Andy

Originally Posted by AndyKunz

Come on down and pay us a visit sometime! This coming weekend would be a great time - we're having a camp-out! www.elifield.com

Andy

Hey Andy iam going to get down by you but not till next summer ,i have to much stuff going on right now with work and fixing up my home to get it ready to sell. We are moving around 50 miles or so south soon to get out of this town and even tho i can retire now my boss has asked me to work a little longer $$$ .lol I have already told the boss iam taking alot of trips next summer and he better plan to cover for me or i will retire and he can find someone else to get things done. I will save your club site and let you know what meet i will attend next summer Andy it will be fun to meet you guys down there.lol joe

So after 156 pages....who is introducing someone building or offering advice on a build to a new builder and buildling along with someone?

Originally Posted by springer

Ah, well, then I guess i have to agree with the guys who think it is waning, as at least in my opinion, the energy that once was directed toward the traditional balsa/tissue/monokote buildup has shifted to foam for several reasons, including more durable, crash damage resistant and more readily repairable planes; raw material readily available at local dollar stores, Home Depot, etc, Glues available at same places; Tons of plans available tailored to the material from simple quick builds for noobs to builds as complex as the toughest traditional builds.

Pretty near impossible to quantify how many people are building model airplanes in any type of building material! All you can do is have a feeling, one way or the other. In the end, maybe it doesn't matter, maybe the only important thing is doing what you like to do! You like foam, I like balsa!

Originally Posted by Thermalin

So after 156 pages....who is introducing someone building or offering advice on a build to a new builder and buildling along with someone?

Iam helping someone here where i live with some foam builds and on another forum getting ready to help new builders build kits of their choice to learn how to do. I get many questions for help or plans and i answer them all. As far as building with foam or balsa it makes no difference to me ,but after building with balsa all my life i think its a fool who will not learn to build with all the materials you can get your hands on. . joe

Now is the time to begin building again,and to help newcomers learn how to do all the things required to be a good builder.

I was just at a model fly-in,and out of 54 models,the only duplicates were 5 Cubs....every thing else was a 1-off....That was impressive.-49 different model airplanes....

Somebody is still building..In fact a lot of people are still building.

Originally Posted by Thermalin

So after 156 pages....who is introducing someone building or offering advice on a build to a new builder and building along with someone?

I am a new builder and currently building my 4th plane. I think the first thing you need to do is get people interested in the hobby. Once they are hooked suggest something that there isn't an ARF version of. In my case I am interested in thermal flight and the planes that I am looking into purchasing are only available as kits or plans. I also like building so maybe I'm not the right person to ask. I have a BOT kit waiting to be built just didn't like the idea of an ARF.

If you could talk the manufactures into producing really poor quality ARFs and nice kits you would probably see more people building...

At my club a new person is started on an Easy Glider and a Paragon is the recommended plane to build. Most people end up building that paragon even if they don't stay with it for long.

Honestly I think if you really wanted to "bring building back" in a big way ARFs would need to go way up in price or come way down in quality. I also feel that the trend towards ARFs is due to the need for instant gratification in todays society. I am 26 and know that most people my age wouldn't have the patience or attention span to build a model.

Originally Posted by Mode One

Pretty near impossible to quantify how many people are building model airplanes in any type of building material! All you can do is have a feeling, one way or the other. In the end, maybe it doesn't matter, maybe the only important thing is doing what you like to do! You like foam, I like balsa!

I agree we really can't quantify, but my "feeling" comes from watching the members and visitor count on the scratchbuilt foamies forum (a forum dedicated 100% to builders (yeah, yeah, in foam....) compared to all the other forums on RCG (always the highest or within the top two or three), the number of planes that have been designed and built from scratch and then replicated from just the plans by others, and the incredible number of folk posting from all over the world in that forum. There's also a goodly number of youngsters in high school and college posting and building on that forum, as well as lots of guys in their middle years, not just old greyhairs like me My first build on getting back into the hobby after retiring in '04 was a balsa/monokote Gentle Lady that I still fly once in a while, but once I found foam, I pretty much switched. Now for most of my soaring, I fly my OneSheetGlider, my own design and build in foam. Won't win any contests, but it's been built and enjoyed by a couple dozen guys, and inspired a High School student to built 10 and 20 foot span versions that he flew to prove he could, learning a good bit about aerodynamics and the structural issues involved.


incidently, I helped a recently retired friend build a BluBaby derived Beaver that we are now using as a trainer for him. He's already doinked it several times without damage, and the two times it did recieve some damage, he was able to repair the same day and make flight ready. He's getting the hang of the sticks and motoring around the patch pretty well now.

I have realized from reading many of the current thread requests for help across many of the forums, is that the lack of builders isn't the only problem.

The RTF model, (although I have nothing against them), is creating a model flying generation with little or no knowledge of how anything works, and the slightest problem seem to be beyond them. Some even have to ask questions that must obviously be answered in the models, or transmitters, manuals, but they don't seem to like reading either.

Are we creating a generation of people who can't think for themselves with all the 'open-the box-switch-it-on' availability these days ?. Actual thinking and solving a problem themselves seems to have degenerated to 'it's easier to ask someone else to find the answer'.
Some are asking 'what shall I buy next ?'. Good grief, there are loads of threads with exactly the same title, they couldn't even bother to search. Let alone make their own decision on what they would like, than ask if anyone thought it suitable.

The Internet instead of giving people the information to learn, seems to more and more being used to ask someone else to do the research.

If many can't be bothered to put any effort into finding things out themselves, there appears to be little chance of actually getting many of them into building. Though I know we are only too willing to help those who do want to try, there are many out there who probably will always be incapable, because they cannot be bothered to learn.

Moan over..

I think you would find that most of the threads you describe are disproportionately created by children. Also take into account all the people that actually think before they post. You don't really know how many people search and find their answers relative to the redundant topic posters.

The people creating those threads will always be more vocal than the people that can use a search function.

Originally Posted by eflightray

I have realized from reading many of the current thread requests for help across many of the forums, is that the lack of builders isn't the only problem.

The RTF model, (although I have nothing against them), is creating a model flying generation with little or no knowledge of how anything works, and the slightest problem seem to be beyond them. Some even have to ask questions that must obviously be answered in the models, or transmitters, manuals, but they don't seem to like reading either.

Are we creating a generation of people who can't think for themselves with all the 'open-the box-switch-it-on' availability these days ?. Actual thinking and solving a problem themselves seems to have degenerated to 'it's easier to ask someone else to find the answer'.
Some are asking 'what shall I buy next ?'. Good grief, there are loads of threads with exactly the same title, they couldn't even bother to search. Let alone make their own decision on what they would like, than ask if anyone thought it suitable.

The Internet instead of giving people the information to learn, seems to more and more being used to ask someone else to do the research.

If many can't be bothered to put any effort into finding things out themselves, there appears to be little chance of actually getting many of them into building. Though I know we are only too willing to help those who do want to try, there are many out there who probably will always be incapable, because they cannot be bothered to learn.

Moan over..

Very poignant, couldn't agree more.!

Originally Posted by Thermalin

So after 156 pages....who is introducing someone building or offering advice on a build to a new builder and buildling along with someone?

My CLUB!

Last night we voted to buy a 12' Telemaster and build it together over the winter. This will be a great way to introduce some of our members to building, as well as ensuring a good turn-out to club meetings. It will also be a great club tool, capable of towing banners, candy drops, etc. Except for the kit, everything else will be donated from the excess "stuff" we all have laying around unused.

We are also having a One Design category for our annual Builders Contest in the May. We're building Comet Sparky's, many from the Bob Holman laser short-kit.

I'm looking forward to lots of balsa dust in my shop and garage this winter!

Andy

Edit: I will also have a build thread somewhere to inspire other clubs and builders.

I agree with Ray to a point ,there are those who are to lazy to learn but still want a nice different plane and those are the ones who buy them at swap meets or off of the guys who build. Then there are some who think its to hard and just need a nudge to get them going .There are a very few who realy want to learn and have the skills to do so. I have no time to waste at my age and iam sure most of you guys dont either so its up to us to be smart enough to figure witch catigory the guy who says he wants to build falls into. I wrote one off about 3 years ago as not wanting to learn and he surprized me later with a nice kit build so we can be wrong and i think giving them some time is a must before writing them off. joe

The reason why people build with foam more than balsa now, is bc the wind generator industry has taken over the balsa wood market. They always get the highest quality wood, and pay at a premium for it. So the quality if our wood is less.

Just 5 years ago, i could get 3/32"x6"x48" contest grade balsa for $2.50 a sheet, that same sheet is now around $6-7!

The arf industry is huge bc labor is cheap, the wood is cheap, the glue is cheap and in many cases, a few molds and fiberglass fuselages can be made cheaper than an all wood fuse. Granted, there are those arfs that are pretty expensive. But for the most part, i think the quality of most Arfs is already low. But its still cheaper and faster to buy an arf and modify it than it is to buy a kit.

The price of good balsa and plywood has shot up over the past 5-10 years and is killing the wood kits. Not to mention, the instant satisfaction needed with most of society today