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Old Feb 06, 2013, 05:35 PM
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United States, CA, Modesto
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I too just hook up one battery and go. I have my own issue with the darn throttle starting up at 20%. No matter how many times I have done the stick train thing it still starts at 20%. Wow Hobbies told me that Walkera sets the stick end points and they cannot be changed. Doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I shoucl try a Walkera ESC too.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 05:29 AM
Brent 黑雁
BThirsk's Avatar
Canada, AB, Ponoka
Joined Jan 2012
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Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Thanks for the good wishes - a real crappy few weeks, but almost back to normal now though.

Your own crash!
Yep, thought there'd have to be a limit to just how much loading we could put on the F45 rotor head/blade combo. Was pretty amazed that it could lift 900g on my own conversion: so never really had to go down the 3s road - other than tests.
Good that at least you've GOT the bits to rebuild: my own first full BL 45/450 flew off into the sunset, never to be recovered it seems now .
But kind of odd that BThirsk (and others) have been running 3s for a while. Think it gets back to blade speed: with a standard 450 motor, and a 10t pinion, seemed to spin up just fine (on 3s) in the workshop. But that motor is 3500kv, and my 'standard' f45/450 HK motor is 5250kv: which might also be pushing the boundaries a bit far at 11.1V. Not too tempted to try now, after your experience!

One odd thing I've noticed.
I've never had to do the 'bind then connect ESCs' with any of my four BL conversions (apart from setting ESC THR range). Even on the fully BL 45/450: just connect the Deans, and both ESCs are good to go - after Tx THR bind sequence, of course.
Maybe it's a feature of the Turnigy plush ESCs?

Cheers
John
John
Your 5250kv with 11.1 volt would give crazy head speed. I don't run that high of kv on my 250. The 250 maxes out at about 4500rpm with carbon fiber blades.
I had decided I would never push the extreme blades with stock head above 3000 rpm. With the 3s some of us are using, we max out at about 2700.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 08:58 AM
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United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
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Originally Posted by OldOz View Post
Thanks for the good wishes - a real crappy few weeks, but almost back to normal now though.

Your own crash!
Yep, thought there'd have to be a limit to just how much loading we could put on the F45 rotor head/blade combo. Was pretty amazed that it could lift 900g on my own conversion: so never really had to go down the 3s road - other than tests.
Good that at least you've GOT the bits to rebuild: my own first full BL 45/450 flew off into the sunset, never to be recovered it seems now .
But kind of odd that BThirsk (and others) have been running 3s for a while. Think it gets back to blade speed: with a standard 450 motor, and a 10t pinion, seemed to spin up just fine (on 3s) in the workshop. But that motor is 3500kv, and my 'standard' f45/450 HK motor is 5250kv: which might also be pushing the boundaries a bit far at 11.1V. Not too tempted to try now, after your experience!

One odd thing I've noticed.
I've never had to do the 'bind then connect ESCs' with any of my four BL conversions (apart from setting ESC THR range). Even on the fully BL 45/450: just connect the Deans, and both ESCs are good to go - after Tx THR bind sequence, of course.
Maybe it's a feature of the Turnigy plush ESCs?

Cheers
John
Which esc are you using that are working together ? I have been playing with some brush esc by Turnigy but can not get the two of them to work together in the same heli also did some on the bench testing as mention by Bthirt and still was unable to get them to work.. Going to try some Brushless motor as I see the stock are not stronger enough in lite wind. Was just getting ready to order some other esc but will wait until I get a rely from you ? My gold is to use a esc on the main motor and one on the tail motor along with a gyro for the tail. I take both of your esc are the Turnigy Plush ?

Just to see how the F45 would fly with a different set of blade I put a set of (A) blade from my double horse 9053 and the blade are pretty much the same also got lucky put them on the blade balancer and did not have to touch them. Now if I can only get the electronic to work together I would be getting some where.

You much be using a bigger canopy to fix over the bigger battery, I see the Honey bee FP v2 canopy works on the F45.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 02:52 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
Which esc are you using that are working together ? I have been playing with some brush esc by Turnigy but can not get the two of them to work together in the same heli also did some on the bench testing as mention by Bthirt and still was unable to get them to work.. Going to try some Brushless motor as I see the stock are not stronger enough in lite wind. Was just getting ready to order some other esc but will wait until I get a rely from you ? My gold is to use a esc on the main motor and one on the tail motor along with a gyro for the tail. I take both of your esc are the Turnigy Plush ?

Just to see how the F45 would fly with a different set of blade I put a set of (A) blade from my double horse 9053 and the blade are pretty much the same also got lucky put them on the blade balancer and did not have to touch them. Now if I can only get the electronic to work together I would be getting some where.

You much be using a bigger canopy to fix over the bigger battery, I see the Honey bee FP v2 canopy works on the F45.
SmokeNGun - These are my 'standard' conversion parts:

Motor - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11884
Pinion - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=15259
ESC - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=4312

Frankly, the pinion is not very good, looking for alternatives atm.
However, the motor/ESC combo has performed faultlessly for over 250 flights now, on three different conversions. Have absolutely no problems now in meeting my own objective when starting out on F45 mods: i.e., flying in the local 15-25km/h trade winds (sometimes up to 40km/h) prevailing here.

The full BL conversion heli is still a work in progress, however. It flies quite well, but admittedly not as well as the brushed tail - using the V1 F45 PCB, anyway.
With my 6ch Tx/Rx/gyro combo had probably the best of both worlds, however would like to keep to the original if at all possible.
Tail parts:
ESC - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=30259
Motor(s) - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8479 and also
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=21645
BL converter - http://www.slickzero.com/page/SRHP/P...tronics/EA-048 (but working on a better one now).

Don't quite understand the canopy question? - All my FP helis are F45/450 mods now, the originals simply can't handle local wind conditions. Hence I'm using HK 450 frames with (my own choice!) Align 450 plus canopies which hold the Turnigy 2200mah batteries comfortably. The above parts are not really suitable for a stock F45 (you need the HK EH200 main motor there). This is a 450 mod thread after all.

Frame - http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=14571

(I also use the Align 500 skid set: totally indestructable - well, so far!)

This build seems to fly very well indeed with the brushed tail, passably with BL tail (I have one of each): and bind - remember, V1 F45 PCB - without any need to sequence the powerup to the ESCs.

Hope this helps .
John.
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Old Feb 07, 2013, 04:20 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BThirsk View Post
John
Your 5250kv with 11.1 volt would give crazy head speed. I don't run that high of kv on my 250. The 250 maxes out at about 4500rpm with carbon fiber blades.
I had decided I would never push the extreme blades with stock head above 3000 rpm. With the 3s some of us are using, we max out at about 2700.
Thanks for the feedback: seems to be pretty well as I thought then.
I'm thinking of revisiting the stock 3400 motor and ESC with 3s for the main and tail (probably use the main ESC BEC to power the F45 PCB). Feel it might give the tail motor a better power balance with respect to the main: worth a try, anyway. Just can't seem to get the BL tail as good as I'd like.
But no way will I ever be spinning up the ADH300XL on 3s .
Regards.
John
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 08:00 AM
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United States, NJ, Newark
Joined Feb 2013
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When I join this thread I started some where in the middle so figure I needed to come up to speed as to what is really going on in this thread, so I started reading from the beginning this morning and realize that everyone is mod 450 clone and using F45 parts. So now knowing that it gives me something to do with this Trexx 450 clone I purchase 3 months ago from Value Hobby for $33. I first purchase a honey bee king 3 thinking after flying the F45 for a while it would be nothing to fly a cp heli well I was wrong about that. So now that I have this 450 Trexx clone maybe I'll try my hand at making it a FP 450 clone think my biggest problem will be making the rotor head work. Although I have read what arrowshooter did to make it all work. I would like to keep it as a belt drive. Think that the tail will be much faster then the stock F45 as my F45 tail motor is not fast enough for me when trying to get the heli to move backward. I manage to used my DX6i radio with the F45 by using the 4in1 mixer from the honey bee fp v2.

Would a belt driver tail rotor be just as fast as a direct drive tail motor on the 450 clone ? Reason I ask in thinking the main motor is spinning up pretty fast and all your really doing is changing the pitch tail blade. Also will it harder to a FP with the belt drive tail ?

Also want to say thanks to everyone that have answer my other post for help as I've only been into this hobby about 5 months now and have learn a lot in a short time manly from watching many youtube videos.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 10:31 AM
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United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SmokeNGun View Post
When I join this thread I started some where in the middle so figure I needed to come up to speed as to what is really going on in this thread, so I started reading from the beginning this morning and realize that everyone is mod 450 clone and using F45 parts. So now knowing that it gives me something to do with this Trexx 450 clone I purchase 3 months ago from Value Hobby for $33. I first purchase a honey bee king 3 thinking after flying the F45 for a while it would be nothing to fly a cp heli well I was wrong about that. So now that I have this 450 Trexx clone maybe I'll try my hand at making it a FP 450 clone think my biggest problem will be making the rotor head work. Although I have read what arrowshooter did to make it all work. I would like to keep it as a belt drive. Think that the tail will be much faster then the stock F45 as my F45 tail motor is not fast enough for me when trying to get the heli to move backward. I manage to used my DX6i radio with the F45 by using the 4in1 mixer from the honey bee fp v2.

Would a belt driver tail rotor be just as fast as a direct drive tail motor on the 450 clone ? Reason I ask in thinking the main motor is spinning up pretty fast and all your really doing is changing the pitch tail blade. Also will it harder to a FP with the belt drive tail ?

Also want to say thanks to everyone that have answer my other post for help as I've only been into this hobby about 5 months now and have learn a lot in a short time manly from watching many youtube videos.
The F45/450 is truely a joy to fly with the belt driven tail. I find that spinning in either direction is more reactive with the belt drive than with the tail motor because you get drive in both directions. To make the conversion you will need another receiver to opperate the tail servo which is what brought on this thread.

As I mention a few posts back, I am still learning what the whole gyro thing is all about with my second FP450 using the flybarless head and 90 degree swashplate. I have a fairly good hoover going right now, so if the weather holds I will be out to the field this weekend to see if I can keep it off the ground.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 01:43 PM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
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Quote:
Although I have read what arrowshooter did to make it all work. I would like to keep it as a belt drive.
Working towards the same eventuality myself, with a few small changes. This thread, along with the bits of info from the F45 thread where it began have been my favorites. I'm very much looking forward to joining it at some point with more than just this silly little comment.

I want to build one of these myself! LOL
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 02:14 PM
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So I like the idea of a 450FP.
I have a F45, but like it enough for what it is to not want to sacrifice it.
I also have a V200D01 and Wk2801 Pro Tx that I love flying - it is so much faster, more agile and banks beautifully!
I’m thinking I could watch out for a used F45, I could just buy the required F45 parts, or I can get another Rx from Wow for my Wk 2801.
I’m leaning towards the Walkera option, but what does that mean in terms of making the heli FP?
I’m thinking I would go with the belt drive tail, but am not sure if I should go with the FBL head option that arrowshooter is outlining or stick with the F45 head conversion?

What would you do?
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 03:20 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by Scott in NH View Post
So I like the idea of a 450FP.
I have a F45, but like it enough for what it is to not want to sacrifice it.
I also have a V200D01 and Wk2801 Pro Tx that I love flying - it is so much faster, more agile and banks beautifully!
I知 thinking I could watch out for a used F45, I could just buy the required F45 parts, or I can get another Rx from Wow for my Wk 2801.
I知 leaning towards the Walkera option, but what does that mean in terms of making the heli FP?
I知 thinking I would go with the belt drive tail, but am not sure if I should go with the FBL head option that arrowshooter is outlining or stick with the F45 head conversion?

What would you do?
I'd stay with the flybar.
But Arrowshooters way is the way of the future, imo. Think in a year or two ALL r/c helis are going to be FBL, except perhaps for Walmart cheapies.
However, find my own F45/450 conversion to be cheap to build, very easy (and fun) to fly with stock F45 Rx, and pretty indestructable in use. And not a real disaster if you lose it.
Again - from my pov - feel if I've got to go to 6ch with belt tail, would probably just fly my 450 CPs.
But I'm old, and naturally resistant to change LOL. Follow Arrowshooter!
Cheers to all.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 03:22 PM
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United States, CA, Modesto
Joined Aug 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott in NH View Post
So I like the idea of a 450FP.
I have a F45, but like it enough for what it is to not want to sacrifice it.
I also have a V200D01 and Wk2801 Pro Tx that I love flying - it is so much faster, more agile and banks beautifully!
I知 thinking I could watch out for a used F45, I could just buy the required F45 parts, or I can get another Rx from Wow for my Wk 2801.
I知 leaning towards the Walkera option, but what does that mean in terms of making the heli FP?
I知 thinking I would go with the belt drive tail, but am not sure if I should go with the FBL head option that arrowshooter is outlining or stick with the F45 head conversion?

What would you do?
Get the receiver and keep the 2801 and go belt drive. One issue I am having though, is with the Walkera 2403Tx, 2437V Rx and Hobbywing Esc, I cannot get start up below 20%. I understand that I may also need to use a Walkera ESC since they set the end points at the factory. Doesn't make sense, but thats what I understand.

As for the rotor, it's up to you which way to go. Right now the F45 head is easier for me to fly because of the flybar. But as soon as I get the 2437 Rx/Gyro dialed in on the flybarless FP450 I may change my tune. It would be cheaper to by the extra F45 rotor parts, but the hardware (pins and bushings) are not available everywhere. Other side is the 450 flybarless head is a bolt on with no need to make a sleeve.

Decisions....decisions.

BTW, if you decide to go flybarless, I would suggest not getting the Align 450 DFC or the clone lookalike. The swashplate links are very week and will break when the blades hit the grass.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
Get the receiver and keep the 2801 and go belt drive. One issue I am having though, is with the Walkera 2403Tx, 2437V Rx and Hobbywing Esc, I cannot get start up below 20%. I understand that I may also need to use a Walkera ESC since they set the end points at the factory. Doesn't make sense, but thats what I understand.

As for the rotor, it's up to you which way to go. Right now the F45 head is easier for me to fly because of the flybar. But as soon as I get the 2437 Rx/Gyro dialed in on the flybarless FP450 I may change my tune. It would be cheaper to by the extra F45 rotor parts, but the hardware (pins and bushings) are not available everywhere. Other side is the 450 flybarless head is a bolt on with no need to make a sleeve.

Decisions....decisions.

BTW, if you decide to go flybarless, I would suggest not getting the Align 450 DFC or the clone lookalike. The swashplate links are very week and will break when the blades hit the grass.
So it soulds like I should start with the F45 head and wait to see how you do
So what pins and bushings are hard to find?
Don't I just need this kit and a set of blades?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F45-F645-qui...item43b86ae7e0

If not is too much to ask to detail all of the parts required?

Thanks,

Scott
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott in NH View Post
So it soulds like I should start with the F45 head and wait to see how you do
So what pins and bushings are hard to find?
Don't I just need this kit and a set of blades?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/F45-F645-qui...item43b86ae7e0

If not is too much to ask to detail all of the parts required?

Thanks,

Scott
You need these:
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 05:59 PM
John
Australia, QLD, Brisbane
Joined Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by arrowshooter View Post
You need these:
They certainly are the bits. A couple of points though.
IME:
- The brass(?) bearings shown do not come as standard with their associated plastic parts.
- The flybar retaining pin does normally come with the flybar
- The feathering shaft doesn't come with the blade retainers (it is 2mm x 30.5mm, I usually make mine from a scrapped F450 flybar cut to length).
I'm pretty sure the kit Scott linked will be missing the brass bearings too.
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Old Feb 08, 2013, 08:27 PM
Goooo!!!! Get to da choppa!!!!
United States, NC, Albemarle
Joined Jan 2013
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Most of those pins/ bushings are available at any decent hardware store. You just gotta dig around in the small parts bins...
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