SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 20, 2013, 01:55 PM
Registered User
manuel v's Avatar
Mexico, BC, Mexicali
Joined Aug 2004
5,150 Posts
Thanks Eflightray.
manuel v is offline Find More Posts by manuel v
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 20, 2013, 04:37 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,009 Posts
I have the Aurora and can confirm that using SSpeed has zero effect on Eflite and lander retracts. It also did not work with a HS75 BB servo (which is non proportional): it did delay the operation but had no effect on speed.
TTRotary is offline Find More Posts by TTRotary
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2013, 08:04 PM
Registered User
Brianlon's Avatar
Joined Jan 2013
15 Posts
Hi again Guys.

Many thanks on all the posts regarding the issue.

I have tried the retracts with the servo slow working on one channel while the other retract didnt have any programmed in so I could compare the differences when a selection was made.

The results....

With a speed regulation put in, the leg failed to move down with the one without. Upon up selection, the one without went up, the one with went down!
Little bit weird I know.
However, there was no speed delay, regardless of the direction they traveled and regardless of any speed delay input.

Oh well.

They do move nice and at a reasonable scale speed with regards servo operated and some air systems I have seen. All I wanted was the look of one leg taking more time to rise, like on a spitfire etc..

Many thanks again guys
Brianlon is offline Find More Posts by Brianlon
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 20, 2013, 11:06 PM
Missileer Extraordinaire
Mel Duval's Avatar
Joined Jun 2001
2,048 Posts
In that case, maybe a circuit that would delay the pulse width change a little? It would make the retract it was wired with start operation just a little slower both up and down. A micro controller would be the easiest way, best I can tell. I am an old school analog guy and will have to think about this a little.... The guys to do this elegantly are over in the DIY forum.
Mel Duval is offline Find More Posts by Mel Duval
Last edited by Mel Duval; Jan 20, 2013 at 11:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:57 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,317 Posts
Or if you have a channel to spare on the RX you could put them on separate channels, set up the channels to have different neutrals and mix both channels to the same operating switch. That way they should start moving at different times but as long as the neutrals were somewhere near 1.5mS the retracts should work fine.

Without measuring the pulse, I'm guessing these retracts toggle operation about 30-50% each side of neutral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Duval View Post
In that case, maybe a circuit that would delay the pulse width change a little? It would make the retract it was wired with start operation just a little slower both up and down. A micro controller would be the easiest way, best I can tell. I am an old school analog guy and will have to think about this a little.... The guys to do this elegantly are over in the DIY forum.
jj604 is online now Find More Posts by jj604
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:30 AM
Missileer Extraordinaire
Mel Duval's Avatar
Joined Jun 2001
2,048 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj604 View Post
Or if you have a channel to spare on the RX you could put them on separate channels, set up the channels to have different neutrals and mix both channels to the same operating switch. That way they should start moving at different times but as long as the neutrals were somewhere near 1.5mS the retracts should work fine.

Without measuring the pulse, I'm guessing these retracts toggle operation about 30-50% each side of neutral.
I think you have a winner. Couple this to the slow speed on the transmitter on switch actuation then the channel with the shifted neutral will go first or last but at a defined delayed point.....
Mel Duval is offline Find More Posts by Mel Duval
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 05:53 AM
Registered User
Brianlon's Avatar
Joined Jan 2013
15 Posts
Leave that one with me guys.

I will do my best to try it out.

p.s.
I am not an eletronic boffin so I havnt a clue what you mean with all this diode,1.5ms stuff.

Back soon
Brianlon is offline Find More Posts by Brianlon
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 12:27 PM
Senile Member
Lnagel's Avatar
Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
5,878 Posts
Those retracts work on the maximum and minimum widths of the transmitter's PWM pulse. They couldn't care less where the neutral is. Besides the fact that a gear channel is usually switched so its output is either at maximum pulse width of 2 msec or minimum pulse width of 1 msec. Because the output is switched from max to min or min to max instantaneously, the output is never at the 1.5 msec neutral position. Therefore, changing the neutral position of the channel would not delay the gear operation.

Larry
Lnagel is offline Find More Posts by Lnagel
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 01:17 PM
Missileer Extraordinaire
Mel Duval's Avatar
Joined Jun 2001
2,048 Posts
Maybe this will do?

Take a look at this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCJE1&P=7

I think it might do what you want....

Maybe put this in one gear servo feed:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/servo_slo...18550_prd1.htm

Thinking about it, if you make the retract delay fairly long, what I think it will do is slow down the change from max to min and make the gear retract later than it normally would.....
Mel Duval is offline Find More Posts by Mel Duval
Last edited by Mel Duval; Jan 21, 2013 at 04:34 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 02:35 PM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,317 Posts
Nope, neither of those will work. They are SERVO slowers/sequencers and work by changing the speed of the pulse movement.

UPDATE: Ignore above statement. See next two posts. A servo slow will work if put in one channel. Not sure about a sequencer though.

Servoless systems are switched from one state to another by the position of the pulse, they do not follow the pulse position like a servo.

I'm not convinced by the neutral position argument however. It is not the actual neutral position that matters, it is where the servoless amplifier switches from UP to DOWN. That will be somewhere between the two end points. These gadgets do not recognise an exact 1 and 2mS but a "somewhere between 1mS and 1.5mS" and and "somewhere between 2mS and 1.5mS" as up and down. If you can get a second channel that has Tx servo slow to take longer to move from one end to the other, the switching point for each leg will occur at different times.

Imagine it as having the gear connected to a stick control each. As you move the stick slowly from one end the gear will cycle at some point. If it is possible to make that point occur at different times by moving the two sticks at different speeds by slowing one travel time way down they will switch at different times.

May be worth a try if you have such a TX.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Duval View Post
Take a look at this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCJE1&P=7

I think it might do what you want....

Maybe put this in one gear servo feed:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/servo_slo...18550_prd1.htm

Thinking about it, if you make the retract delay fairly long, what I think it will do is slow down the change from max to min and make the gear
jj604 is online now Find More Posts by jj604
Last edited by jj604; Jan 22, 2013 at 12:42 AM. Reason: Corrected wrong info.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 21, 2013, 04:56 PM
Life begins at transition
Australia, VIC, Sale
Joined May 2007
3,593 Posts
I did that with CS retracts on my Spit, and it worked.
Not using the Tx, but a servo slower on one side. The transition happens at different times, but the movement rate is the same once they start moving.

(oh yeah, and the CS retracts need something like 1050 and 1950 as the triggers, massive hysteresis. PZ retracts are closer to 1400 and 1600)
Odysis is offline Find More Posts by Odysis
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:36 AM
ancora imparo
jj604's Avatar
Melbourne, Australia
Joined Jul 2005
6,317 Posts
So works exactly as I expected. Thanks for that evidence.

And you can do the same with a Tx that has a servo speed adjustment and mixing without the need for an additional device.

For example I just tried it on a couple of cheap HobbyKing electric retracts with my DX8 and a $4 6ch clone DSM2 receiver. Worked first time.

One retract is plugged into the Receiver Gear channel, the other into Aux1
Servo setup for Gear is default, for Aux1 the speed is set to 0.8sec
Mix is Gear->Aux1 100% Rates and 100% Offset. Mix is permanently on.

On a DX8 you can watch the receiver outputs on the monitor screen. When you flip the gear switch the Retract channel switches from fully up to fully down instantly and that retract moves. The Aux1 channel slowly moves from fully up towards down and at some point the retract operates. While that retract is moving, the Aux channel completes its movement to the end but that has no effect since the retract has been toggled.

So the time delay between the start of the two retract cycles is set by the speed setting on Aux1. The delay may be different for the up and down cycles due to the latency (different up and down switching points) of the retracts. You may be able to get them similar by playing around with servo travel and offset (neutral) positions.

The speed and power of retraction are set entirely by the retracts themselves.

The answer to the OP's question is then I think that there is no easy way to change the speed of retraction (short of mechanical modification) but you can easily get them to retract with a delay on one side.

Must say it looks quite nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odysis View Post
I did that with CS retracts on my Spit, and it worked.
Not using the Tx, but a servo slower on one side. The transition happens at different times, but the movement rate is the same once they start moving.

(oh yeah, and the CS retracts need something like 1050 and 1950 as the triggers, massive hysteresis. PZ retracts are closer to 1400 and 1600)
jj604 is online now Find More Posts by jj604
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:15 PM
Rangers Lead the Way
Joined Mar 2010
2,009 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel Duval View Post
Take a look at this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCJE1&P=7

I think it might do what you want....

Maybe put this in one gear servo feed:

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/servo_slo...18550_prd1.htm

Thinking about it, if you make the retract delay fairly long, what I think it will do is slow down the change from max to min and make the gear retract later than it normally would.....
I have the Jomar units. They are good. They will give you: sequencing, servo slowing (NA to non-proportional or etracts), sequential delay for gear deployment, and 2 door modes - P-51 style or P-47 style (doors stay open). Their drawback is that endpoint and travel adjustments are not available, and such inputs from computer radios are not supported. So any door adjustments will have to be made in the hardware.

The other solution is the Assan sequencer combined with the Turnigy servo slower. The Assan does what the Jomar does, except it has travel adjust but no slowing, and it doe not have sequential gear deployment. The Turnigy servo slower provides - you guessed it - the slowing.

Back to the OT - slowing servoless retracts - it cannot be done in the radio. It has to be a feature on the retract circuit board. The only e-tracts I know of with this feature are the Wingspans. Others to come I'm sure.
TTRotary is offline Find More Posts by TTRotary
Last edited by TTRotary; Jan 23, 2013 at 04:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Bixler v1.1 EPO 1400mm Can wings be transported separately????? Ron Christensen Electric Sailplanes 4 Feb 09, 2013 03:24 PM
Discussion Can a finning-fast electric jet can Frequent Mileage Arizona Electric Festival 3 Jan 18, 2013 04:50 AM
Discussion If there's even one life that can be saved..... BE77 Pilot Life, The Universe, and Politics 22 Jan 17, 2013 06:22 PM
Question Connecting Cells in Parallel: Can This Be Done? AEMontoya DIY Electronics 3 Jan 09, 2013 10:39 PM
Discussion Mounting wheels to servoless retracs Condre' HobbyKing 9 Oct 17, 2011 03:14 PM