Originally Posted by MRGTX

Jurgen,

I believe that what you're attempting here is a form of bullying. ...

Providing information is "bullying"? Who got you the address of a dealer who still had a Sonicliner in stock? Who provided the answer whether MPX still has the molds? Who showed you pictures about a TwinJet with canards? Think about it!

As mentioned many times before: I am just trying to help here.

Jürgen

Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig

Providing information is "bullying"? Who got you the address of a dealer who still had a Sonicliner in stock? Who provided the answer whether MPX still has the molds? Who showed you pictures about a TwinJet with canards? Think about it!

As mentioned many times before: I am just trying to help here.

Jürgen

Who were you trying to help?

Nevermind. Guys, is there an option to block a forum member's posts? I've seen enough..

What the heck happened? Anyone who diagrees jurgen gets censored! Check out the extinct multiplex thread.
Is he a moderator?
Very funny since the poll results show that he's in the wrong side of this argument.

Originally Posted by Smokescreen38

...
Very funny since the poll results show that he's in the wrong side of this argument.

Well, the vast majority of RCG users does not even look at this poll, i.e. they have no interest in a Sonicliner.

If you'd apply a price tag of let's say $200.- for a bare kit, how many of those who voted "I'd strongly consider buying one" or "I would possibly consider buying one", would actually buy one?

Jürgen

A friend of mine has one and flew it at the park a while back. It was converted to brushless, not crazy fast but smooth and graceful. Glide ratio was impressive and planing your landing took a good amount of space. I liked it but don't think I would want one myself.

Jurgen has strong opinions at times about all the Multiplex models but that's okay, he is just expressing what he believes to be right.... Like the rest of us . Multiplex makes fine models, many of them are under powered in my opinion but they fly as advertised and the quality is very good. China could deliver a Sonic-liner but I'm sure it would be nowhere near the quality of the Multiplex version. Maybe the price would reflect that as well.

Originally Posted by Smokescreen38

What the heck happened? Anyone who diagrees jurgen gets censored! Check out the extinct multiplex thread.
Is he a moderator?
Very funny since the poll results show that he's in the wrong side of this argument.

Poll is meaningless. Out of how many thousands of RC pilots on this planet and not one vote on this poll is a 'positive, for sure, here is my money' vote. All speculative.

If they poll is so indicative of how popular this model was, is and will be, then why only a few members posting here? So far only 74 votes out of 448,843 members. This plane is destined to not be produced again in the near future as there is no market for the plane. The facts of the poll point that out.

As for argument, Jurgen has argued with no one here. Only provided facts. Facts that others did not care to hear.

If others here want this plane to come to market, they will likely need to do it themselves. Any ideas what a first run production will cost just to get the bare foamy parts injected molded for a 500 plane run? Then factor in any parts that are hard plastic.

Originally Posted by Jurgen Heilig

Poll is meaningless. Out of how many thousands of RC pilots on this planet and not one vote on this poll is a 'positive, for sure, here is my money' vote. All speculative.

If they poll is so indicative of how popular this model was, is and will be, then why only a few members posting here? So far only 74 votes out of 448,843 members. This plane is destined to not be produced again in the near future as there is no market for the plane. The facts of the poll point that out.

As for argument, Jurgen has argued with no one here. Only provided facts. Facts that others did not care to hear.

If others here want this plane to come to market, they will likely need to do it themselves. Any ideas what a first run production will cost just to get the bare foamy parts injected molded for a 500 plane run? Then factor in any parts that are hard plastic.

I disagree. this is an entirely specious argument,
If this was true, you wouldnt have to be in here trying to roll all over it. The thread would gave died weeks ago.

At post #19 you accused Jurgen of picking an argument. He only provided facts. Since then there have been accusations of racism, trolling, arguing and being sock puppet. Non of which were true, not even remotely true.

You can always request the thread to be locked.

Any word from the person you contacted concerning production of this aircraft.

Originally Posted by Obake

Poll is meaningless. Out of how many thousands of RC pilots on this planet and not one vote on this poll is a 'positive, for sure, here is my money' vote. All speculative.

If they poll is so indicative of how popular this model was, is and will be, then why only a few members posting here? So far only 74 votes out of 448,843 members. This plane is destined to not be produced again in the near future as there is no market for the plane. The facts of the poll point that out.

As for argument, Jurgen has argued with no one here. Only provided facts. Facts that others did not care to hear.

If others here want this plane to come to market, they will likely need to do it themselves. Any ideas what a first run production will cost just to get the bare foamy parts injected molded for a 500 plane run? Then factor in any parts that are hard plastic.

The poll like most polls on RCG is meaningless.My thinking,however flawed it might be,suggests turning towards the number of views this thread has generated as a measure of the interest in this plane ,....several thousand views...even discounting the 325 posts to this thread as multiple views by the same person ...thats still thousands interested in this plane....$300 a pop for a BNF or RTF x thousands of sales...=...someone is missing out on a golden opportunity..

Originally Posted by Obake

Any ideas what a first run production will cost just to get the bare foamy parts injected molded for a 500 plane run? Then factor in any parts that are hard plastic.

With nothing better to do ,I visited the" java injection molding cost estimator" for a 1000 plane run(lowest setting) it would cost appx $91 per for foam only

.Visited Graysons hobbies next. a 400/480 motor/esc combo runs $32 per x 2 =$64..3 hi-tec servos $30,a 5000 mah battery $49,misc servo extension wires /"Y" connector etc $20,servo/control horns $5,spectrum rx $40

.$295 total ....assuming MPX buys motors etc in bulk quantities their total cost to produce the SL and bring it to market probably wouldn't exceed $200 ea....sell em at $300-350 per...gross profit of $100-150 ea.....

how many sonicliners were made by multiplex for world wide distribution?

Originally Posted by daddiozz

With nothing better to do ,I visited the" java injection molding cost estimator" for a 1000 plane run(lowest setting) it would cost appx $91 per for foam only

.Visited Graysons hobbies next. a 400/480 motor/esc combo runs $32 per x 2 =$64..3 hi-tec servos $30,a 5000 mah battery $49,misc servo extension wires /"Y" connector etc $20,servo/control horns $5,spectrum rx $40

.$295 total ....assuming MPX buys motors etc in bulk quantities their total cost to produce the SL and bring it to market probably wouldn't exceed $200 ea....sell em at $300-350 per...gross profit of $100-150 ea.....

Does that include the cost for tooling? That is the hugh expense in one of these projects. The last time I price out tooling for a simple plastice piece for a weapon, the cost was $6000 and only a guarantee of 1000 pieces as I recall. My setup was another $4000. That was for a single item. Then I was responsible for post processing and final finish. I also retained ownership of the dies and copyright. By the time the product got to maket, my profit was roughly %18, and that was considered to be high profit.

As I am told now, the Chinese manufactureres require the dies to be made by them and they retain ownership. If true, a bit underhanded if they turn around and use the dies for their own production work.

Originally Posted by Obake

Does that include the cost for tooling? That is the hugh expense in one of these projects. The last time I price out tooling for a simple plastice piece for a weapon, the cost was $6000 and only a guarantee of 1000 pieces as I recall. My setup was another $4000. That was for a single item. Then I was responsible for post processing and final finish. I also retained ownership of the dies and copyright. By the time the product got to maket, my profit was roughly %18, and that was considered to be high profit.

As I am told now, the Chinese manufactureres require the dies to be made by them and they retain ownership. If true, a bit underhanded if they turn around and use the dies for their own production work.

As I understand the website-calculator that includes tooling ,raw materials etc. The main fuse alone would be $54 per piece per 1000 units ,a 5000 unit run substantially lower .As far as the chinese go ,they clone motorcycles and cars ,whats a few model airplanes to them?Besides ,wasn't that the point of this thread?

Originally Posted by daddiozz

With nothing better to do ,I visited the" java injection molding cost estimator" for a 1000 plane run(lowest setting) it would cost appx $91 per for foam only

Hmmm,I really don't see the correlation between 'injection molding' and 'expanded bead molding' (for lack of a more correct industry term).
Injection molding is for those cute,non-flying,miniature replicas I used to assemble as a lad.
Usually made with styrene formulations heated until liquified & pumped into various mold cavities.
Nothing like a 'pellet' of a custom formulated PP/PE resin blend,which is placed into a cavity and subjected to various pressures (or lack thereof ) and temperatures to induce a 'pop-corn' effect.
Different techniques,materials,equipment,tooling yada yada yada,and not comparable.Or apples & oranges if that helps you.
Skies
Jay.