New Products Flash Sale
Thread Tools
Old Dec 20, 2013, 10:31 AM
Btnewman is offline
Find More Posts by Btnewman
Team Warpsquad!!!
Btnewman's Avatar
Joined Oct 2013
2,034 Posts
Discussion
Nano-ish Brushless build and micro brushless motor tests.

This started out as a kind of mini dream quad, and has since turned out to be a hefty little project with so far 5 different motor and a series of differnt props with more to be added over time. I will try to keep this post updated with more info and links to information throughout the thread.


I am wanting to build a brushless mini quad, and wanting some input of everyones thoughts towards the build.
a couple things I would like to keep in mind, 1s battery, still have the ability to later add gps (hopefully multiwii will soon be able to navigate) and the smaller the better. I travel quite a bit with work, and my on the job down time is when I get to spend the most time on these. also, the more inexpensive the better and it would be nice to get it all in one order.
I am open to suggestions and other recommendations
thanks for looking at this!

fc= HK MINI MWC with a pololu step up/step down5v regulator, which would run either 1 or 2s power to fc
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._BARO_MAG.html

http://www.pololu.com/product/2119

fc display=http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__50096__Multiwii_MINI_OLED_Display_Module_Dual_I2 C_128x64_Dot_MWC_MINI_.html

esc=.7 yep hk, 7 amp, 1 or 2s. I like this one because it allow to eventually use a 2s battery. but will still run 1s. also easy to program. and possibly flash with simon k firmware? still looking at the ability to do that.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ontroller.html



motor=3.1 gram roughly 44grams of thrust on a 3020 prop
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...tor_3_1g_.html

or possibly running a cut down 3020's

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...r_11500kv.html


3020 props

eventually a 3d printed chassis, but probably start with a few sticks though.

again, if anyone has experience with a setup like this, or has better ideas for something this size, please let me know

also plan on throwing this gps on there
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2012386
just not sure what all that would take...


2/4/14
I have had a few motors ordered and compiled a few different tests with different motor and prop combinations.
the test results start here, and I will continue to update these as I get more testing done

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=101
Btnewman is offline Find More Posts by Btnewman
Last edited by Btnewman; Feb 04, 2014 at 10:15 AM.
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 20, 2013, 12:22 PM
woodsturning is online now
Find More Posts by woodsturning
Registered User
Joined Feb 2013
882 Posts
I don't have a lot to offer, but will definitely follow your progress. I have been interested in doing a 1s micro brushless build many times but haven't been able to find a 1s configuration that looked enough better on paper than the brushed stuff to take the plunge.

This video covers the out runner you mentioned if you haven't already seen it.
AP03 Brushless Motor, Choosing Propeller for 1s LiPo Power System on RC Ultra Micro Planes (6 min 33 sec)


They didn't reach the 44g listed by HK but still reasonable at 39 @ 2.45A. On the HK site one person reported 45g but @ 3.39A. I'm really curious what battery you will have to use to get a decent flight time with 4 of these potentially pulling that much?

Also in my experience those 3020 props are terribly balanced stock and take time to get running smoothly. I hate to sound pessimistic and really hope you are able to get something up and running that works well and will probably have to copy if you do.

Those ESC you mentioned seems like a great choice for 2s setups too. Seems like they would take the place of the Plush 6A esc if they could take SimonK or BL Heli.
woodsturning is online now Find More Posts by woodsturning
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 12:57 PM
Btnewman is offline
Find More Posts by Btnewman
Team Warpsquad!!!
Btnewman's Avatar
Joined Oct 2013
2,034 Posts
thanks for that video, to me, that esc they used if rated to 3 amps, and most of their test showed over 3 amps of pull. which to me, isnt exactly an ideal setup
my max weight for this should be between 50 to 75 grams max. which if i can find a decent motor prop combo that can push upwards of 45 grams, in theory, should carry itself pretty well

kind of the whole idea of this quad will be a test bed for 1s brushless flight, and if nothing really turns out from it. bump to 2s and go from there

that little esc could easily be an awesome 1 and 2s esc, just going off its weight, and power abilities
Btnewman is offline Find More Posts by Btnewman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 01:38 PM
mikefromgermany is offline
Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
4,135 Posts
I'm into building a nQX sized BL quad.

My shopping list:
hexTronik 2 gram Brushless Outrunner 7700kv
SuperMicro Systems - Brushless ESC - 3A Mi-3A
MINI MWC Flight Control Board and DSM2 Receiver ACC/GYRO/BARO/MAG
TURNIGY Voltage Booster 5V
Replacement Motor Mount HobbyKing Pocket Quad V1.1
3020 Propellers
This custom made frame (the right one. left one is for a nQX board):


Calculated flight weight incl 240mAh batt: 35gr.
Total cost: ~150 USD

-mike-
mikefromgermany is offline Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 02:00 PM
woodsturning is online now
Find More Posts by woodsturning
Registered User
Joined Feb 2013
882 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Btnewman View Post
thanks for that video, to me, that esc they used if rated to 3 amps, and most of their test showed over 3 amps of pull. which to me, isnt exactly an ideal setup

that little esc could easily be an awesome 1 and 2s esc, just going off its weight, and power abilities
Their test setup may have not been the best I figured it would at least be another reference point.
I am probably going to start at 2s running 5X3 for my first brushless attempt, but if you or Mike come up with something that outperforms a brushed micro I may change my plan or build a second.

Are you guys expecting better performance than with a brushed setup or just exploring the smaller brushless options?
woodsturning is online now Find More Posts by woodsturning
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 02:09 PM
mikefromgermany is offline
Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
4,135 Posts
Lets say - I wouldn't go through all the hassle (and money involved) if I wouldn't count for a much better performance than any brushed micro out there I had my share on these - a good dozen.

-mike-
mikefromgermany is offline Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 02:35 PM
Btnewman is offline
Find More Posts by Btnewman
Team Warpsquad!!!
Btnewman's Avatar
Joined Oct 2013
2,034 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsturning View Post

Are you guys expecting better performance than with a brushed setup or just exploring the smaller brushless options?
the goal is to go from a quad with a flying weight of roughly 30 grams and max 90ish grams of lift. 3:1 lift to weight ratio.

to a quad with a roughly 50 gram flying weight, with roughly 160 grams of max lift, a 3.2:1 lift to weight ratio.

or in mikes case, 35g flying weight, with 4x35g lift= 140 grams max lift. you get an even better 4:1 flight ratio.

so, in the long run, just to experiment, yes, to get better ratios, yes. and with the mini mwc fc, you also get a lot more room to grow with, such a gps and display if you want
Btnewman is offline Find More Posts by Btnewman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 02:36 PM
woodsturning is online now
Find More Posts by woodsturning
Registered User
Joined Feb 2013
882 Posts
Well if it pans out I will be following closely behind.
I'm curious which 3X2 your planning on using?
possibly these:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=11326 (these are the ones I found badly balanced)
or these
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=25657

In the reviews for the motors Mike spec'd one person reported getting only 19.0g of thrust @ 1.9A with a balanced 3020 gws although the spec says 36g+. Another person reported 25g with a 2.5X1 so they could potentially be another option to explore. I'm guessing the brushless option offers other performance gains over brushed, not shown just in max thrust. If not I hope you get better results as it doesn't seem worth the trouble for those numbers. You may also very well get the 36g+ advertised as the numbers I mentioned were just from random reviews. I am really hoping this works out well.
woodsturning is online now Find More Posts by woodsturning
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 02:51 PM
mikefromgermany is offline
Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
4,135 Posts
Even with only 25gr thrust per motor I'll end with a 3:1 ratio.
That is more than any brushed stock micro is able to offer.
But I will try other props too, there are some YD717 props that could match very well....
The 1mm shaft is also a reason for the 7700kV motors.

-mike-
mikefromgermany is offline Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 03:00 PM
Btnewman is offline
Find More Posts by Btnewman
Team Warpsquad!!!
Btnewman's Avatar
Joined Oct 2013
2,034 Posts
There will be a lot of testing with different props, I was going to start with gws 3020's and what ever I can find that is in a similar size range. The hard part is finding counter rotating props in that range. I am not scared of starting with a 3020 and trimming it down, then testing, then trimming and testing again.

The turnigy 1015 inrunner my eyes has a lot of potential to really be a screamer with the right prop.
Btnewman is offline Find More Posts by Btnewman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 03:05 PM
mikefromgermany is offline
Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
4,135 Posts
Placing a foot where no man's toe was before

I ordered these 3020 for a first try:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=40029
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=40028
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=40027
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=40026

No effort to balance them, anyway.

-mike-
mikefromgermany is offline Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 03:13 PM
Btnewman is offline
Find More Posts by Btnewman
Team Warpsquad!!!
Btnewman's Avatar
Joined Oct 2013
2,034 Posts
http://www.micronwings.com/Products/...rs/index.shtml

I was also planning on picking a few props up from here. They have a pretty good selection
Btnewman is offline Find More Posts by Btnewman
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 03:15 PM
woodsturning is online now
Find More Posts by woodsturning
Registered User
Joined Feb 2013
882 Posts
Any reason you didn't get any of the ones for the 2g outrunner?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=25657

3:1 is good and definitely better than any stocked Brushed quad, but they can be pushed past that point too. I'm currently working on an estimated 3.8:1 DD brushed build. Details will be in the 1s thread later when I get things together. Still really looking forward to what emerges from this thread.
woodsturning is online now Find More Posts by woodsturning
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 03:30 PM
mikefromgermany is offline
Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Ain't crashing often anymore
mikefromgermany's Avatar
Germany, Berlin
Joined Jun 2012
4,135 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsturning View Post
Any reason you didn't get any of the ones for the 2g outrunner?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=25657

.
Because they are designed for 14000 rpm. My BL combo goes up to 30000
(still a 10k below the brushed versions, though...)
May worth a try anyway, as they dont cost much. But I fear the much higher torque that is needed to swing them in such high rpm will kill either a motor.

-mike-
mikefromgermany is offline Find More Posts by mikefromgermany
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 03:33 PM
Btnewman is offline
Find More Posts by Btnewman
Team Warpsquad!!!
Btnewman's Avatar
Joined Oct 2013
2,034 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodsturning View Post
Any reason you didn't get any of the ones for the 2g outrunner?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...dProduct=25657
has anyone tried those on any of the micro brushed motors yet? they look like a litle bigger version of the blade nano qx props.
Btnewman is offline Find More Posts by Btnewman
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Want to put my Nano QX board in a different quad. TheBeastTamer Mini Multirotors 8 Aug 05, 2014 09:02 AM
Wanted Wanted- BL Motor- 7-ish grams, 2300-ish kv JoeR Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 3 Jul 06, 2014 01:38 AM
Discussion New to quads, i want to build my own! lordhamham Scratchbuilt Multirotors 18 Nov 06, 2013 09:10 AM
Discussion Nano Quad Build TheBender Multirotor Talk 13 Jan 19, 2011 02:43 AM