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Old May 24, 2013, 11:27 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Sharon
Joined Feb 2008
63 Posts
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Now breaking-in my new ASP 25A

So I have my 25 trainer basically ready to go, already fuel proofed the engine and tank area, just need to lock-tite a few things down and confirm CG. Seems quite close with engine and radio in, need to check again. Last step was engine break-in.

So I made this wodden break-in bench thing, c-clamped it to a picnic table outside and last night started out before it got too dark. ASP 25A, 9x6 prop, new glow plug, 30% nitro fuel, 120 ml tank.

Didn't touch idle / low mixture screws : just started with main needle 2 turns out. Started right up, started closing slightly the needle seemed to transition well and go thru entire throttle range. Nice blueish-white stream of smoke, kept it away from full throttle. I kept an eye on temp with my temp gun, was going between 100 at first, then 150, close to 180. Ran about 2 tanks that way.

Then went a tad more lean, still having nice white smoke, was going a bit higher in throttle, short blurps at full, mostly 25 - 50% throttle. Temp was getting up a bit more around 180-190. Ran about 2 tanks.

Bit more lean again, still watching for the white smoke, keeping an eye to bring up the temperature. Temp up to 200 - 220 for short periods, then i would lower throttle to keep around 190ish. Ran a few more tanks, running very well, temperure up to 250 for short perdiods of time, one time up to 270

Now I am at 1 & 3/4 turns out, nice response through all throttle range, idle well, runs well everywhere, stays at about 210 degrees at full throttle. I think break-in done successfully / hopefully. Hopefully I did pretty much the right thing, it's teh first time i actually try to break-in an engine properly.

thanks
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Old May 25, 2013, 12:18 AM
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DarZeelon's Avatar
Israel, Ramat HaSharon
Joined Nov 2003
1,155 Posts
la Bougie (sparkplug in French),


You did it wrong and in contrary to any form of logic.

Read this thread! It not only tells you HOW to do it; it also explains WHY it is the only right way.

...That is, if your objective is for your engine to have the longest possible life-span and the most power.

You probably did little damage to your engine, but you also did not break it in either; which was, I suppose, your objective.


And throw away that IR temp sensor! The right running temperature must read from the engine's behaviour; not from a temperature scale!

Each engine in each situation has a different 'right' running temperature.
It's sure to be in a certain range (like 200-280F, for instance), but you must target the correct behaviour; not a number in the display...
And for that no such sensor is needed; just your eyes and ears.

Are you out of your mind using 30% nitro for break-in??? 25-30% castor oil, 0-5% nitro!

People have been breaking engines in successfully for over 50 years (over 30 years for ABC engines), before IRT sensors became the latest newbie cash waster...
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Old May 25, 2013, 12:34 AM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Sharon
Joined Feb 2008
63 Posts
Yikes ! OK i am going to read this, and I also just took a video of the last tank of gas i just went through. I'm going to try to post it on here soon.

Not sure about the gas, I do have a lower content fuel for RC cars (16% Nitro), that's all i got at home.

Thanks alot

Quote:
Originally Posted by DarZeelon View Post
la Bougie (sparkplug in French),


You did it wrong and in contrary to any form of logic.

Read this thread! It not only tells you HOW to do it; it also explains WHY it is the only right way.

...That is, if your objective is for your engine to have the longest possible life-span and the most power.

You probably did little damage to your engine, but you also did not break it in either; which was, I suppose, your objective.


And throw away that IR temp sensor! The right running temperature must read from the engine's behaviour; not from a temperature scale!

Each engine in each situation has a different 'right' running temperature.
It's sure to be in a certain range (like 200-280F, for instance), but you must target the correct behaviour; not a number in the display...
And for that no such sensor is needed; just your eyes and ears.

Are you out of your mind using 30% nitro for break-in??? 25-30% castor oil, 0-5% nitro!

People have been breaking engines in successfully for over 50 years (over 30 years for ABC engines), before IRT sensors became the latest newbie cash waster...
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Old May 25, 2013, 01:55 AM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Sharon
Joined Feb 2008
63 Posts
Question. Below from that linked thread:

Run the engine initially for a total of 15 minutes, in a somewhat rich two-stroke mode.
After that the engine should be leaned gradually for short periods and then richened back (still two-cycle) to cool.

question: - at what throttle? full?
After about 5 minutes doing that, try to lean the engine carefully to maximum RPM. If the engine can hold maximum RPM without sagging, for 60 seconds straight, you have completed the break-in.
If it sags richen it immediately, to prevent damage, repeat the first part of this paragraph for 5 more minutes and then try again.

Repeat until the engine can hold peak RPM for 60 seconds.

question: - again i assume at full throttle ?
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Old May 25, 2013, 05:49 AM
engine-a-holic
Portugal, Lisboa, Amadora
Joined Jun 2007
314 Posts
Yes, always at WOT after warming up. You regulate max rpms by varying the richness of the mixture.
Use the lower nitro fuel you have and keep it rich, car fuel hasn't got enough oil.
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Old May 25, 2013, 10:14 AM
Registered User
United States, TX, Weatherford
Joined Dec 2006
1,655 Posts
Why so much nitro? I would think the max you would need is 15%. Or even 10%. It would seem to me that you are wasting money with all that nitro. Now if you are talking about lubricant, right on. 20% oil is not a bad number though the commercial sellers tend to use less like 17 to 18% but that is to basically save money. When I get fuel like that I add a couple per cent Castor to the mix.

If the engine is an ABC or ABN, I would go fly it rich. Run wide open rich. Not blubbery 4 cycle rich, just well on the positive side. Break it in in the air.
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Old May 25, 2013, 08:14 PM
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earlwb's Avatar
USA, TX, Grapevine
Joined Dec 2008
12,894 Posts
Model Car fuel generally is a low oil content fuel, sometimes as low as 8% oil in it. For model airplane engines you don't want to use less than 16% oil in the fuel but 18% to 20% may be better though. Now as to the nitromethane content, you should be able to run the engine just fine on 5% to 10% or maybe 15% nitromethane in the fuel. 30% nitromethane is a little on the excessive side, you don't need that much.

But as to your breaking in the engine, I doubt you did any damage, so you are OK. But usually with ABC engines they tend to run them a little harder to get them up to operating temperature for break in. So that the cylinder is heated up and expanded good.
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Old May 25, 2013, 10:53 PM
Registered User
Canada, ON, Sharon
Joined Feb 2008
63 Posts
Thanks for all the comments. I had alot of issues running a magnum XL32, there was never a good break-in procedure and it think i finally had issues with either the carb or needle. So it's on the shelf for now. That's why I was trying to start out 1 foot forward on this ASP25A, also an OS Max 35AX to get ready, and finally a OS Max 46AX.

About the fuel: What I started with says 30% Nitro for planes, that was what I used prior and what I tried for the ASP 25A at first. The other fuel I haver said 16% for car use, but when I peeled off the sticker, the original label says 15% Nitro for planes. So that's what i'm using now.

The ASP25A now sits in its new home, a new size 25 trainer. It holds good and steady a high RPM, so i'm thinking its basically ready to go.

Now I'm on the OS Max 35AX, trying to do the procedure as above. First 2 tanks was ran in a bit rich 2 stroke mode to basically first run / warm up the engine. Secondly I went leaner + richer back and forth at WOT for 5 minutes. Lastly I went WOT to find the max rpm, and tried to keep it for 60 seconds. Now I need to try again, last time it was running well at max revs WOT for 60 sec, but was not running well bewteen 0-50% of WOT, and was not transitioning right. Seemed a bit lean. I'd lilke ot try again before adjusting the idle mixture

I'm going to try to post the vids here.
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Old May 26, 2013, 01:09 AM
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Adelaide, South Australia
Joined Sep 2003
3,067 Posts
Here's the short and concise way to run in an ABx engine without the BS .

First, the fuel. You can use whatever nitro % you like although zero nitro is as good as any. The main thing is oil % where I prefer 25% all castor (the one thing Dar and I both agree on ). You could use a fuel with less oil and even some synthetic but take it easy on mixture, keep it richer so there's more oil flow.

They must be run in at full throttle but make sure the needle is set well into the too rich range first before going full throttle. Too rich won't cause any harm but too lean will. The ideal mix for first runs is where the engine is just breaking between a 4 stroke and 2 stroke or just barely into a clean 2 stroke. I have to assume you know the diffence in sound between 4 and 2 stroking. Don't bother too much with idle mix or idle revs at this time.

Run it for about 10 minutes at this fairly rich setting (revs will probably be around 2000 less than peak) and then give it about another 20 minutes while slowly increasing revs. I like to use a tank that gives about a 5 minute run and, just to make sure it's still running rich, quickly pinch the fuel line for an instant to see if it speeds up. If it doesn't speed up then you're way too lean.

For your OS with its ABN liner (after it's run in), I'd suggest using a fuel with about 22% oil and a high percent of that being castor. This seems to avoid the occasional liner peeling problem OS have.

Having said all this, personally I give all my ABx type engines their first run in a very rich 4 stroke setting before the 4-2 setting.
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Old May 26, 2013, 04:58 PM
TigreJohn
United States, CA, Corona
Joined Aug 2008
996 Posts
Regarding your 16% fuel: believe the sticker, not the can. More than likely, the blender didn't have the correct cans but had to ship to keep the order. Its happened before; it will happen again.
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Old May 26, 2013, 10:59 PM
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rcnewfly's Avatar
Joined May 2013
8 Posts
Study Breaking Nitro engine

Very detail study Breaking ASP 25A nitro engine
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarZeelon View Post
la Bougie (sparkplug in French),


You did it wrong and in contrary to any form of logic.

Read this thread! It not only tells you HOW to do it; it also explains WHY it is the only right way.

...That is, if your objective is for your engine to have the longest possible life-span and the most power.

You probably did little damage to your engine, but you also did not break it in either; which was, I suppose, your objective.


And throw away that IR temp sensor! The right running temperature must read from the engine's behaviour; not from a temperature scale!

Each engine in each situation has a different 'right' running temperature.
It's sure to be in a certain range (like 200-280F, for instance), but you must target the correct behaviour; not a number in the display...
And for that no such sensor is needed; just your eyes and ears.

Are you out of your mind using 30% nitro for break-in??? 25-30% castor oil, 0-5% nitro!

People have been breaking engines in successfully for over 50 years (over 30 years for ABC engines), before IRT sensors became the latest newbie cash waster...
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