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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:25 AM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galand View Post
This thing tends to result nose-heavy. a 36mm would prolly make that worse.
Could end up being nose heavy, but here are some things to consider:

1) I recommend inserting a fiberglass rod in the tail boom to strengthen the airframe. The existing tail boom is weak. This will add weight to the tail.

2) Even if the plane ends up a little nose heavy, it is easy to add weight and balance. Far easier than if the plane is tail heavy.

My two cents.

Jackson
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:56 AM
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EDFFanatic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Feb 2004
410 Posts
Retract Mod, Tail Mods

A picture of the tail with rudder servo installed. Helps with the CG a lot.
And pictures of the retract mod.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 05:13 PM
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Joined Aug 2012
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cool, thanks for the info. looks like ill be saving the 36mm for another plane.
@EDFFanatic, your build is looking great. are you using slim wing servos for rudder/elevator cause the tail doesn't look thick enough to fit mini/micro servos judging from ventus pics at HK site.
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 07:26 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDFFanatic View Post
A picture of the tail with rudder servo installed. Helps with the CG a lot.
And pictures of the retract mod.
EDFF,

Great work on the tail servos and retract mod. Very clever solution on the retract mod. I did the stock setup and had problems with anything but a very smooth landing. Ended up keeping the gear retracted for most landings.

Jackson
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 09:58 PM
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Montreal
Joined Feb 2004
410 Posts
more mods

@Sidman47: The tail has actually more beef than the wings so it is easy to fit servos there. I removed the stock ones and used these from HK, micros made by Turnigy:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9745
For the retract, I tossed the metal gear no name job that came with the plane, it didn't center right and had trouble retaining EPAs, I replaced it with this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8498
It's not metal gear but has ample torque and since my retract mod gives me positive down lock, I don't need a costly MG servo (At least I hope so!)
The micros work in the wings too.
@Jackson Stone: Thanks, it`s your videos that inspired me to buy this bird!
Did you end up finding a thermal? How does she handle? BTW, love your paint job, that is one sleek looking Ventus. What kind of paint did you use? I have never painted EPO and wonder what would be good. Do you have to prep the surface before?
Cheers,
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Old Oct 08, 2012, 11:46 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDFFanatic View Post
@Sidman47: The tail has actually more beef than the wings so it is easy to fit servos there. I removed the stock ones and used these from HK, micros made by Turnigy:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=9745
For the retract, I tossed the metal gear no name job that came with the plane, it didn't center right and had trouble retaining EPAs, I replaced it with this:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...idProduct=8498
It's not metal gear but has ample torque and since my retract mod gives me positive down lock, I don't need a costly MG servo (At least I hope so!)
The micros work in the wings too.
@Jackson Stone: Thanks, it`s your videos that inspired me to buy this bird!
Did you end up finding a thermal? How does she handle? BTW, love your paint job, that is one sleek looking Ventus. What kind of paint did you use? I have never painted EPO and wonder what would be good. Do you have to prep the surface before?
Cheers,
EDF,

I used a mixture of Polyacrylic and white hobby paint to get the smooth finish.

I have another video in the works on the Ventus. Unfortunately I suffered a major crash not long after I shot the video last Spring. So, I am now flying the FMS ASW-28, which I also love.

Cheers, Jackson
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 06:56 AM
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Montreal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Stone View Post
EDF,

I used a mixture of Polyacrylic and white hobby paint to get the smooth finish.

I have another video in the works on the Ventus. Unfortunately I suffered a major crash not long after I shot the video last Spring. So, I am now flying the FMS ASW-28, which I also love.

Cheers, Jackson
Hi Jackson, sorry about the crash. She was a fine looking bird.
I have looked at the ASW28 a few times. Are you happy with it? I heard it was a little more docile, with normal wings, no this razor sharp stuff like the Ventus.
In an effort to make it more scale like, they made the wings too skinny. A slightly thicker wing profile would have made a huge difference, maybe with a touch more wing chord too and thinner trailing edges. This square cut trailing edge finish is not good, it creates extra drag that is so not necessary on this ship.
Regards,
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 05:12 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDFFanatic View Post
Hi Jackson, sorry about the crash. She was a fine looking bird.
I have looked at the ASW28 a few times. Are you happy with it? I heard it was a little more docile, with normal wings, no this razor sharp stuff like the Ventus.
In an effort to make it more scale like, they made the wings too skinny. A slightly thicker wing profile would have made a huge difference, maybe with a touch more wing chord too and thinner trailing edges. This square cut trailing edge finish is not good, it creates extra drag that is so not necessary on this ship.
Regards,
EDF,

I find the ASW-28 more docile and easy to handle than the Ventus. It does not pick up speed like the Ventus did. The Ventus made a terrific swoosh sound when it was at high speed flying over. I did a little thermalling with the Ventus, but have done much more with the ASW-28. That was partly because the big crash occurred early in the soaring season. Most of my soaring with the Ventus was ridge soaring, which was great fun. In between the Ventus and ASW-28 I had the FMS Fox, which I did lots of thermalling with until it crashed due to a radio glitch. I like the ASW-28 much better than the Fox. It is much more nimble and climbs lke a demon on the stock motor setup.

Good luck with your Ventus. I really loved mine and still think it was the coolest of the electric sailplanes I have owned and flown.

Regards,

Jackson
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 05:19 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
EDF,

One other thing. The Ventus is very sensitive to CG. I have posted a recommended CG in this thread. Suggest you check yours carefully prior to flying.

regards,

Jackson
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 05:53 PM
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Montreal
Joined Feb 2004
410 Posts
Cg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Stone View Post
EDF,

One other thing. The Ventus is very sensitive to CG. I have posted a recommended CG in this thread. Suggest you check yours carefully prior to flying.

regards,

Jackson
Hi Jackson, thanks for the tips. I am thinking of starting with the CG at 43 mm, if I recall, it seemed to be safe. I would rather a slightly forward CG at first until I am really comfortable with the handling, then I might move back 1 mm at a time. I also recall 45mm was the farthest back acceptable for this plane.
As far as reinforcements are concerned, I split the belly of the plane along the gluing line and inserted a 2 mm wooden stringer that runs from the tail all the way down to about 3 inches behind the trailing edge of the wing, using gorilla glue to secure it an lots of tape to maintain pressure while curing. I have to fill in the cracks with a little more glue, then sand it down to a nice finish.
The tail is nice and stiff now, no more up and down flex so the elevator should have more authority. This also took care of the torsion. Added weight seems negligeable, if anything, it is where I need it.
I also use a piece of aluminium about a quarter inch long, 5 mm OD with 3mm thread inside, roughed it up and glued in the T tail as an insert for a single screw that will hold the elevator surface in place.
Tomorrow, I start working on the wings!
When all is said and done, I would like to try and find some sort of putty I could use to fill in the crack and inevitable hangar rash on the foam, sand it to a nice finish prior to the paint job. I think I will use the same colors you did if that's OK, I like the plane to be easy to spot in flight! A white plane on a overcast day is practically invisible.
I am also considering building a new elevator from scratch, a bit bigger maybe. Do you think it is necessary or does it have enough authority at low speeds - approach speeds? Thanks!
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 09:40 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Hi EDF,

Sounds like you have made some great mods to strengthen the tail boom and provide for a secure attachment of the elevator. I went ahead and glued my elevator in place.

With regards to your question about elevator authority I have an important tip. The elevator does not provide sufficient authority for tight turns and circling. The way that I dealt with this was to mix in some flap with up elevator. You do not need anything for down elevator, believe me, it works just fine as is. However the flap with up elevator is incredibly effective. I would do this with any sailplane. The times you need elevator authority are in low speed situations like tight turns and final approaches. Adding the flap is just magic.

So, keep the scale elevator. It looks good and works just fine with the flap mix.

Best regards,

Jackson
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:15 PM
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EDFFanatic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Feb 2004
410 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackson Stone View Post
Hi EDF,

Sounds like you have made some great mods to strengthen the tail boom and provide for a secure attachment of the elevator. I went ahead and glued my elevator in place.

With regards to your question about elevator authority I have an important tip. The elevator does not provide sufficient authority for tight turns and circling. The way that I dealt with this was to mix in some flap with up elevator. You do not need anything for down elevator, believe me, it works just fine as is. However the flap with up elevator is incredibly effective. I would do this with any sailplane. The times you need elevator authority are in low speed situations like tight turns and final approaches. Adding the flap is just magic.

So, keep the scale elevator. It looks good and works just fine with the flap mix.

Best regards,

Jackson
Hi Jackson,
I have never been than refined a pilot to do such mixes but I now have a transmitter that will allow this sort of stuff (Turnigy 9 CH modified with Er9X firmware)
If I understand correctly, as I pull up on the stick, as the elevator goes up, the flaps go down a bit? I guess it makes senses, it adds lift to the wings while the elevator is sinking the tail. This is uncharted territory for me but I really like the idea. Great way to compensate for the lack of surface on the elevator!
I am assuming that it is not a full on mix, as in, if the elevator is full up, the flaps are not full down but maybe just a thrid or so, full flaps would induce a fair amount of drag, which would be catastrophic in a slow turn right?
This is exiting stuff! Can't wait to experiment with that.
Another mix I want to do is flaps and ailerons together when I hit full flaps so I have full span flaps, still retaining aileron control if I touch the stick for minor correction, not sure what it is called but I have seen fellow glider guys do it with great results. Also, I have seen both flaps going up a small amount to kill lift in ground effect with a touch of up elevator mixed in. A bit too freaky for me but it seems to work well if you have it dialed in properly. One mix at a time for me
Thanks again,
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Last edited by EDFFanatic; Oct 09, 2012 at 10:17 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old Oct 09, 2012, 10:52 PM
Feeling the THRALL
Jackson Stone's Avatar
USA, CO, Parker
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
EDF,

You are correct about the elevator to flap mix. A little flap will go a long ways.

Also, I did have a mix from flap to aileron but this will require that your aileron servos are individually programmed. You can't do this if you have only one plug for ailerons with a y connector to the servos.

The most important mix will be elevator to flap, and it is easy to do.

Regards,

Jackson
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 02:15 PM
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Joined Apr 2005
39 Posts
Sailplane Radios?

The last time I flew a sailplane it was a Free Flight and had a "pop-up" stab held down with a tiny rubber band with a homemade fuse shoved through it. I lit the fuse when launching on a High Start and if I caught a thermal the fuse would burn through the rubber band in about 15 min and the stab would pop up and the plane would flat spin down. Now I'm getting long in the tooth and have got rid of all my big gas jobs because I can't handle them anymore - and first off bought a Ventus V2 PNP. Set it up per the instructions for a glider in my JR 9303 manual with flaps on the throttle stick and throttle on the right slide switch. I crashed on the first flight because my buddy threw the plane at a very high angle which didn't give the motor time enough to bite and I couldn't recover fast enough when the nose dropped. She hit the ground and I pulled off motor but it just dropped the flaps while the prop beat itself to death!!
So my long winded question is - do all glider pilots program their transmitter sticks in this way? Can I leave the tranny stick setup the same as flying my scale Cub etc. or will I miss some of the sailplane niceties available in the sailplane mode. The 9303 is extremely programmable but I am not and fifty + years of flying RC creates some habits that are hard to break - like I fly mode 1!! 'Nuf said. Thanks!
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Old Oct 17, 2012, 07:25 PM
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EDFFanatic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Feb 2004
410 Posts
flaps on a stick...

Hi Super Cub,
Not a big expert when it comes to the advanced sailplane setups, one thing I know for sure is I would leave the transmitter as is and assign the flaps to one of the side proportional slides and leave the throttle where you would normaly have it for a regular plane. It is more intuitive that way.
Having the flaps on the throttle stick would confuse me, just thinking about it my head spins!
Sorry to hear about your crash, I hope it is no too bashed and fixable.
The JR 9303 is an extremely capable transmitter and it is very complex. The menu structure reminds me of the german Multiplex radios. Anything you think of is possible... but simple things get very complicated!
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