SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jun 02, 2012, 10:13 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Riverside
Joined Apr 2010
219 Posts
Discussion
Marblehead Hull Type?

Any idea what model, vintage this Marblehead hull might be? I was told it was most likely from the 1970's, and was an east coast boat commonly sailed at Central Park. Looks like it was never finished to me. Quality of the glass work, keel and bulb is very high. Keel attachment looks iffy to me. There are no identification marks at all inside the hull.
Any help is appreciated.
Brad-
nikram58 is offline Find More Posts by nikram58
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jun 02, 2012, 11:02 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,508 Posts
Another M Re-surfaces from the pits of despair.


What you are looking at there, like most things M is probably a home-made Job. There isn't anything I see that gives the boat away as any paticular type, but there are so many types of M, maybe someone on the internet has seen that before. Also, there isn't anything that gives it away as a 1970. Infact 1970 is probably right in the dead-center of where that style keel was used (very roughly 1960 to 1980)


With that said, I think it may be another late-1960's Magic Dragon. I'd have to go back and look again at a verified Magic-Dragon. I'll do that in 1 week from today (we sail next saturday)


What kind of hull it is, who built it, and etc is really irrelevant entirely.
What is relevant is that if the hull measures 50" long, and you put 800 square inches of sail on it, you've got a Marblehead.

With the lead aft of the keel, a spade rudder, and a draft of less than 16" if completed your boat would be considered a "High-Flyer" distinction of the Vintage Marblehead fleet.

In terms of your "finbox" being strong enough- yes, that should be.
If you build it so that the energy of the lead torquing from port to starboard transferrs to the side of the hull, and deck, then you'll be fine.
Just make sure the epoxy used on the lateral support beams hasn't gone dry and cracked, and is still sealed well to the deck.


You are basically working with a bolt-on keel style.
See page 20 of the US1M construction guide for more information:
http://www.theamya.org/boats/us1m/pdf/us1mconst.pdf

You could add in a Full-heght "fin trunk" for added strength.
See page 21 for information on that.


Good luck, looks like a great winter project to me!
breakwater is offline Find More Posts by breakwater
Last edited by breakwater; Jun 02, 2012 at 11:41 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 02, 2012, 11:06 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,508 Posts
Give it a little elbow grease, and end up here:
breakwater is offline Find More Posts by breakwater
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 03, 2012, 12:16 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Riverside
Joined Apr 2010
219 Posts
Thanks, Breakwater. Are your sails homemade or purchased?
Brad-
nikram58 is offline Find More Posts by nikram58
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 03, 2012, 07:31 AM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,508 Posts
I steer everyone in the direction of purchasing sails.

Why?
Sails are
The #2 most difficult thing on a model yacht to build correctly at home (second only to the actual hull) Sails are your source of power, so they should be made by someone with a "boat load" of experience.

I have 6 suits of sails. They are from various manufacturers. I reccomend using Rod Carr. You will find him very helpful and responsive to your needs.
http://www.carrsails.com/


Again, in the Marblehead class there is no right, and there is no wrong. You can put any rig on the boat that measures 800 square inches of sail. It's just a
Matter of getting the sail plan to balance with the hull.

With that said, if you order sails from Rod, he has the plans for the Magic Dragon suit. I would advise having those made... That should be pretty close To what you need. Then it's all fine tuning of the rig to balance, and increase your sailing speed
breakwater is offline Find More Posts by breakwater
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 03, 2012, 10:15 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Riverside
Joined Apr 2010
219 Posts
Thanks again, Breakwater.
Anyone interested in a build log on this?
Brad-
nikram58 is offline Find More Posts by nikram58
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 03, 2012, 02:06 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,508 Posts
Well, personally I'm of the persuasion that build-logs take time away that could be better well spend actually building with the goal to get the boat on the water.

I'm not going to say no, but rather that if you build build build build, and if you hit an snag, THEN post about a tough decision, trouble you are having or etc, someone will be right here to provide help & assistance to get your gears turning again.

That's what I think anyways
breakwater is offline Find More Posts by breakwater
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 03, 2012, 06:33 PM
Guz
Gutless wonder
Guz's Avatar
Tempe, AZ
Joined Dec 2005
3,139 Posts
Naaa... do a build log.

It doesn't take up that much extra time. You have down time waiting for glue/epoxy to dry/cure. Might as well as use that time to take pics and update your log.

And I still say to bring up and point out your mistakes. Helps others to avoid them.
Guz is offline Find More Posts by Guz
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2012, 11:11 AM
Registered User
United States, CA, Riverside
Joined Apr 2010
219 Posts
I contacted the designer of the Magic Dragon, and he said this is not one of his designs. Any other ideas out there? It may not matter, but I like knowing the history of what I am working on.
Brad-
nikram58 is offline Find More Posts by nikram58
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2012, 04:20 PM
Registered User
rsgault's Avatar
USA, CA, Riverside
Joined Oct 2010
166 Posts
Brad,

Have you tried to contact the class secretary for the Marblehead class of the AMYA?

Rich
rsgault is offline Find More Posts by rsgault
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2012, 05:56 PM
Registered User
Joined Mar 2012
232 Posts
I checked with some friends in New York. They say if it was sailed in the New York area in the 70s, it could possibly be a "Wind" designed by Forest Godby. The hull and rudder look similar to his other boats. However, while his boats did have fixed, non-removeable keels like the one in the picture, his fins had a separate torpedo bulb, unlike the one shown.
Tom Corbett is offline Find More Posts by Tom Corbett
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:11 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Riverside
Joined Apr 2010
219 Posts
Not yet, Rich, I will.
Thanks, Tom. I will look into that lead.
Brad-
nikram58 is offline Find More Posts by nikram58
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 08, 2012, 09:30 PM
Bob
Viking50's Avatar
Joined Aug 2010
232 Posts
Warrior? VM

Hello Gents,

Brad I hope you don't mind my posting as I have a similar problem with identification.

I obtained this Marblehead some years ago and was told it was a Warrior design form the USA. Can anyone help with identification?

Thanks,
Bob S.
Viking50 is offline Find More Posts by Viking50
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 09, 2012, 10:12 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,508 Posts
Now that, I can answer.
And, what we have here you, helping me with my EC-12 questions, and I returning the favor with the Marblehead. Keep the ball rolling!



Let me tackle a few things in order.


1. Today we sailed Traditional, High-Flyer, and Classic Marbleheads. All together in one pond for the Bill Full VM Cup.
THREE of the FOUR varieties of M all sailing in one place, at one time. (High-Tech Modern M's didn't sail.. big diffrence between wood & kevlar)
I Did not get photos of the VERIFIED Magic Dragon as promised, as I was busy sailing. I will, however upload some of the boat in the future. Please bear with me and stay tuned.

2. NEVER lose sight that the design of your paticular M is nice to know, but is completely irrelevant to the M-Class. The only thing that matters is that it's a M- 50/800.

3. Your boat is NOT a Warrior.
Additionally, your boat is NOT a Vintage Marblehead.
The lead bulb is forward of the keel. This designates a "Classic" Marblehead, as the lead transitioned from even/aft of the keel to forward during this era.
Your boat is in the same realm of a Toad, Kisutch, Bone, Bingo, etc.

The actual "Warrior" was designed by Standley Goodwin, and general lines were derrived from the "Broom 4" The photos attached are, well, crap. They were taken from the internet, but atleast do provide some sort of information as to what an actual Warrior looks like. Again, here I will update this thread with better photos of the warrior.

4. I don't know what your boat is. As mentioned it is a "Classic" M. Does it have any AMYA numbers inside of it if it came from the USA?
If it does, it should be somehwere around 2,300 (Yes, TWO THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED NINETY NINE Marbleheads were registered BEFORE that boat. This is not another "new" class.
Given that the boat is a classic, you can finish it any way you want. Carbon masts became accessable during the time frame, as well as a transition from Dacron sails to modern materials such as Tri-Spi, PX75 and etc.

5. Don't lose track of the fact that your boat is a Marblehead BEFORE it is anything else.... The M class is stuck in the thought process of distiction, designation and segregation. In order of importance, your boat should be thought of as such, with design name of the LEAST importance.

Marblehead>Classic Marblehead>(Design Name)
breakwater is offline Find More Posts by breakwater
Reply With Quote
Old Jun 09, 2012, 10:27 PM
Registered User
United States, MA, Wenham
Joined Jan 2007
1,508 Posts
Part 2:

You requested that I upload photos of the Dumas EC-12 I'm re-vitalizing on the pond sailing when it's done.
Now, the tactical thing to do is to tell you I'll share them only on the condition that you share the photos of your Classic M under-sail when it's re-vitalized.

breakwater is offline Find More Posts by breakwater
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion What Are The Different Types Of Lobster Boat Hulls frankg Scale Boats 14 Dec 21, 2011 09:35 AM
Discussion marblehead hull wolfsong Sailboats 5 Mar 31, 2010 12:40 AM
Discussion 32 Parallel Type VII Hull pipescs Submarines 9 May 14, 2009 11:13 PM
Discussion What type of paint for Sailboat hull? Will.E.King Sailboats 6 Jan 04, 2009 12:24 AM
Discussion What type of hull normally can sail the highest speed cola2cool Sailboats 34 Sep 05, 2008 11:27 AM