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Old Oct 01, 2010, 05:05 AM
YS-X6 Know why it crashes,blog
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Nov 2007
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Wifi HD FPV

After reading about the other system here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1302019

I though I would try something similar.
I had to buy a HD IP camera for a job and didn't realize how cheap they had become.

Picked up one of these
us$160 shipped
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=180556454672

1280x720 25fps PAL, 30fps NTSC
Not sure why they bother with PAL/NTSC as the image never sees an analog connection.

Took me a little while to get it going as it's not a standard webserver you connect to.
You have to use their propriety software.
I might do a packet dump to see what it's doing.

Unfortunately I got it too late in the day to get it outside for some test pics.

Vital specs are
-316g Fully boxed
-76g Board boards
-160ma when running


There does appears to be a noticeable lag in the picture.
Up to 200ms maybe.
While this might be a killer for FPV it will still be useful for other application like surveillance, where the plane will loiter under AP control and you look around with the camera.
My other hobby is Airsoft so a functioning UAV will add to the game.

The software displays a square picture, so it looks stretched.
If you use a wide screen monitor/goggles you probably won't notice.

Will be connecting this to a Netgear AccessPoint(100mW) and throwing it in a plane to see how it goes.

It won't have any of the fancy features like the MMC-1105 HD but it will be interesting.
Will make a analog fall back system in case of Lost signal.
Extra Camera and VTX.


If someone can rewrite the firmware on the camera we could have a winner
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 05:33 AM
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Old Blighty
Joined Apr 2010
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The Axis 207MW is another one to try, which I think could be even lighter than 73g when uncased. At it's already Wi-Fi enabled!

http://www.axis.com/products/cam_207mw/
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 12:20 PM
YS-X6 Know why it crashes,blog
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Nov 2007
583 Posts
Pricier and lower fps

"AXIS 207MW: Up to 12 fps at 1280x1024, up to 14 fps at 1280x720"

Would be lighter though.
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Old Oct 01, 2010, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_westie View Post
Pricier and lower fps

"AXIS 207MW: Up to 12 fps at 1280x1024, up to 14 fps at 1280x720"

Would be lighter though.
Yup, you're right, but the lower FPS could be because it's over Wi-Fi and not hard-wired.

It will be interesting to see what frame-rate you can actually achieve over Wi-Fi with your camera, but if 3Mbit is full-frame rate (this sounds rather low for HD), then it should be possible.

Using an HD Wi-Fi IP camera on an aerial vehicle has always been something I'd thought be fun to try, so I'm really interested to hear how you get on
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Old Oct 03, 2010, 03:11 PM
YS-X6 Know why it crashes,blog
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Nov 2007
583 Posts
Got some field testing done Sunday.

In short, no good

Made a camera jig with 3 cameras, Access point and battery.
Car Black Box, BL-720QPA-L, Panasonic LS75


More on the CBB here. 1280x720 30fps
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1310870

The Panasonic was used as a best case SD video reference, 640x480p 30fps.


Lens installed on the 720Q was a Varifocal 3.5-8mm, F1.4.
Normal board lenses are F2.0, lower number = more light.
http://www.looklens.com/camera-lens-...or-f-stop.html
The lens was opened up fully at F1.4 letting in as much light as possible.
Forcing the Electronic shutter to go fast.
CCTV camera usually have a range of 1/50 to 1/100 000
The specs don't list this.
http://www.wapa.cc/html/en/product/02/2010/0602/97.html
Anything over 1/1000 should be enough to 'stop' most action.
Logic being a blurry picture will get more compression vs a focused clear image.

Network bandwidth is between 180-300k/Bytes, 1440-2400k/bits


The rig was taken for a walk down to the other end of the field and back.
Two frames were extracted from each video stream.
The cropped one from the LS75 was enlarged 2x for comparison.

First is just the static frame.
Second is during a pan from left to right to test for a high shutter speed.

The CBB colour is way off but does give the sharpest looking picture.

720Q does not appear to be much better in the resolution department than the scaled up LS75.
This could have been poor focus.



As soon as the frame moves you can see the macro blocks, 8x8 pixels.
Even if those blocks showed finer detail the obvious borders give a perceived lower resolution.
160x90 in fact.
- -

- -


Did some controlled more testing at home.
Looks like my focus may have been off in the field but results are still the same with moving objects.
720Q - LS75
-

I might try another camera from our suppliers on demo.
Even at a lower fps to see what is possible.
Network bandwidth should be fine up to 800k/Bytes
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Old Oct 03, 2010, 04:03 PM
YS-X6 Know why it crashes,blog
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Nov 2007
583 Posts
Just though of another option.
Put a small pc, say a stripped down EEEPC, and web camera.
Use something like VLC to stream the video.

Will test and report.
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Old Oct 10, 2010, 01:58 AM
YS-X6 Know why it crashes,blog
New Zealand, Auckland
Joined Nov 2007
583 Posts
Web cam is not an option. Nothing out there that does the fps we want and has onboard compression.
Onboad required otherwise computer requirements get beyond a netbook.

What I did do was drop into a local CCTV reseller and test a high end IP camera.
FULL HD even.
http://marchnetworks.com/Products/IP-Cameras.aspx
VideoSphere MegaPX 720p demo video.
March MegaPx 720p Megapixel HD Security Camera Demo (0 min 48 sec)


I asked them to do a vid with the camera panning so we can see what happens when the whole frame changes.

Picture and framerate looked great.
A little pricey though at us$1k rrp, dealer is about $700 I think.

When I build a plane big enough I will try and borrow one to test.
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Last edited by Mr_westie; Oct 10, 2010 at 02:08 AM.
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Old Oct 10, 2010, 02:18 AM
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Old Blighty
Joined Apr 2010
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Well done for going through the motions on this. I completely understand your line of thought and for close-range, aerial CCTV work (like the type some of the UK police forces are experimenting with), a mega-pixel Wi-Fi solution has its merits.

There are some VERY high-resolution IP cameras out there. Weight and cost however make them prohibitive at the moment. That said, I have a gas-turbine helicopter which can haul 10kg, so...

http://www.j2kvideo.com/?page_id=44

One key advantage of very high resolution IP based cameras for CCTV use, is the digital zoom.
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Old Oct 10, 2010, 02:29 AM
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Joined Jul 2009
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Actually latency, whether from the IP cam or due to compression, is a minor issue compared to the fact that even Wireless-N throughout dramaticaly drops off well before 200 feet of range, and boosting it isn't going to get anyhere close to a 1/4 Km of HD quality bandwidth. I suspect that decent range and relatively low latency HD is possible in the 5.8GHz spectrum, but not from off the shelf components. The only reason long range SD quality analog video is affordable (and FPV is practical) is because of China's obsession with spy cams.
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Last edited by patricklupo; Oct 10, 2010 at 02:35 AM.
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