HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Feb 16, 2008, 02:51 AM
eternal renegade
Joined Feb 2008
3 Posts
Discussion
PowerFan 400/6 EDF Unit w/400F Motor

Hi everyone, I'm not a serious RC guy but I know a bit. My question is probably a bit crazy to you guys but what it is I'm wanting to try putting an electric supercharger on my motorcycle. I had recommendation that I should use a PowerFan 400/6 EDF Unit w/400F Motor and checking out the spec on http://www.globalhobby.com/public/gallery/131401.asp the 12v 24500rpm application looks good. But now I find this has apparently been discontinued a couple of years ago!
First question though, what is reliability like on this type of setup, and do they ever break apart 'cos obviously I don't want bits in my engine!
Next can anyone tell me where I might find one of these complete or suggest an alternative? I think it would need to be a brushed motor unless anyone can suggest a simple system for simply turning a brushless motor off and on to full speed? Again the cabalt motor was recommended. Motor speed would want to be ideally around the 24000 rpm to shift sufficient air.
Any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.
Kris (aka eternal renegade)
eternal renega is offline Find More Posts by eternal renega
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Feb 16, 2008, 08:02 AM
Registered EDF abuser
Scarey's Avatar
Michigan
Joined Jan 2006
1,037 Posts
Yes, it will break (that fan stinks).

Save some time and use the search button for edf supercharger.

Asked and answered.

I am still waiting for one of you guys to post some results.


This question needs to be on mythbusters.
Scarey is online now Find More Posts by Scarey
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2008, 12:52 PM
eternal renegade
Joined Feb 2008
3 Posts
Why so Sceptical?

Why so Sceptical? It's this setup that was recommended. By my calculations I shall need 250 cfm at less for 0 boost and this setup will shift about 500 cfm so it may actually want turning down a little. If this works I could consider doing something similar on my Nissan 300ZX which only nees about 380 cfm. Why do you think it will fail? Do you know of something with a similar spec that is more robust? There are similar things on the market but I liked the sound of this arrangement. Please enlighten me.
eternal renega is offline Find More Posts by eternal renega
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2008, 04:06 PM
Registered EDF abuser
Scarey's Avatar
Michigan
Joined Jan 2006
1,037 Posts
First I run four of those fans in various models and have replaced 4 impellers due to breakage. The blades get stressed over time and break. You want a fan that can compress air and EDFs are not great for that. I know the car industry developing something but I have not seen their design.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/archive...p/t-98577.html

http://www.gaprojects.com/supercharger/electric.htm
Scarey is online now Find More Posts by Scarey
Last edited by Scarey; Feb 16, 2008 at 05:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 16, 2008, 08:13 PM
AMA 353531
rdeis's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined Aug 2003
6,553 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal renega
Why so Sceptical?.
Because the question gets asked at least 3-4 times a year, and no one has EVER reported good results.
rdeis is offline Find More Posts by rdeis
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2008, 02:06 AM
eternal renegade
Joined Feb 2008
3 Posts
Carbon Fan

OK I'm learning; on the reliability issue what about using the VASA 65mm Carbon Fibre fan?

On thrust I am taking the attitude that a normilly aspirated engine SUCKS air and thereforefore runs at negative induction pressure.

A turbo engine run on boost and therefore a positive induction pressure.

Whilst a ducted fan may not be able to produce much positive pressure if it can AT LEAST move the volume of air the engine requires and balance the negative pressure then the engine must be filling more efficiently and therefore produce more power.

This should produce a similar effect to the 'Ram Air' boost systems on most big bikes now where ducts in the nose of the bike force air into the engine.

These engines still run high compressions and therefore cannot be getting much BOOST from this and no self respecting big bike would be seen without forced air induction nowadays!

So, if I'm starting to make some sense what brushed motor would produce the most thrust @ 12v with this fan bearing in mind that I know the torque is as important as the maximum revs to maitain revs under load?
eternal renega is offline Find More Posts by eternal renega
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2008, 01:27 PM
EDF rules... :)
AirX's Avatar
Joined Nov 1999
13,563 Posts
The goal in turbo/supercharging is to raise pressure to get more force at the pistons head. The goal with EDF is to raise velocity. The blade configuration does not lend itself to raising pressure and when flow gets stagnant the rotor becomes useless at this job, the rotor must be disigned to capture pressure where blade density is higher than 100%. This EDF your talking about is less than 50% blade density. For example the area of this 65mm fan is only 3.9in^2 and will generate only .2psi for 1/2hp input. Do the math and you can see that it will take a lot of input power to get just to raise it 1psi and then there is the problem of blade density not being able to sustain pressure.

Get a real turbocharger and use it, with small edf your wasting time and money.

Eric B.
AirX is offline Find More Posts by AirX
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 23, 2008, 07:17 PM
Hey Now
Cocoa Beach, Florida
Joined Feb 2004
2,655 Posts
Like AirX said edf's move air they don't compress air.
Or better yet post some results so I can learn how to supercharge my '87 Fiero with some of my edf equipment.

Scott
speleopower is offline Find More Posts by speleopower
Reply With Quote
Old Feb 24, 2008, 04:34 PM
Permanently Banned
Joined Feb 2008
395 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal renega
OK I'm learning; on the reliability issue what about using the VASA 65mm Carbon Fibre fan?
?

The old Vasa 65 rotor had white ceramic center hub (image)
with 6 carbon fiber blades glued onto it. At High power
it is Fragile at best.

The new Vasa 65 has better black rotor, more rigid, more rugged,
Stronger than the old one. Factory specs indicated much
higher power output, much better perfromance.
See the graph of RPM vs. Thrust output.


Mega 16/20/2
cell, V, A, RPM, thrust(g), Watts
3 10,8 31 35600 668 335
4 13,3 43 42700 969 572
5 15,6 56 48800 1261 874
tail-heavy is offline Find More Posts by tail-heavy
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 03, 2008, 12:44 AM
Future NFL Champs
Fiasco's Avatar
High Ridge, Mo USA
Joined May 2002
1,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by eternal renega
Why so Sceptical? It's this setup that was recommended. By my calculations I shall need 250 cfm at less for 0 boost and this setup will shift about 500 cfm so it may actually want turning down a little. If this works I could consider doing something similar on my Nissan 300ZX which only nees about 380 cfm. Why do you think it will fail? Do you know of something with a similar spec that is more robust? There are similar things on the market but I liked the sound of this arrangement. Please enlighten me.
An edf fan unit creates velocity not pressure. You say the fan moves 5-500cfm.... thats at ambient atmospheric pressure. As soon a you add back pressure the fan's efficiency will go in the toilet. Put a plastic baggy over the output side of the fan and seal it.... how many CFM is the fan moving now? How pressurized is the plastic baggy? Not very.

You can buy these electric fan supercharger kits on ebay and I have to laugh at every sucker that falls for it.
Fiasco is offline Find More Posts by Fiasco
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For Sale NIB Watt-Age PowerFan 400/6 EDF Unit w/400F Motor 1satnaam Aircraft - Electric - Power Systems (FS/W) 2 Feb 18, 2006 05:34 AM
Question Wattage EDF Powerfan 400/6. What is its potential macr Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 5 Apr 12, 2004 03:51 PM
F/S EDF unit w/ motor MailOrderGuy Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 3 Jul 16, 2003 04:11 PM
FS: Wattage EDF - Powerfan 400/6 Will Chapman Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 0 Jun 26, 2002 12:06 AM
Wattage 400/6 EDF unit TGoodwin Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 0 Jun 02, 2002 09:46 PM