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Old Oct 21, 2012, 11:23 PM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,747 Posts
Making a Bird-cage...

Bulent, I'm only doing silkspan-over-sheet on this model. I believe all I have to do is dope it on using ordinary nitrate dope. I tried a bit on the tailplane using coarser tissue and it worked OK so I guess 000 Silkspan will be easier!

A start has been made on the cockpit framing - I'm getting very close and peronal with my cheapo Metabo scroll saw. The frame parts are all cut from 1/8 good-quality ply and since most are only 1/8 wide, they are quite fragile. I found running the saw at almost max speed helps with accuracy. My eyesight though, doesn't help with accuracy

It is amazing that a hand drawn plan of such a complex shape has so far worked almost exactly! As is well known, the nose is NOT a regular softdrink bottle shape. It is skewed to the starboard side (so the pilot can see past the nose gunner), has a steeper curve underneath, and the round nose ring is angled downward. All the frame bits (over 30 of them) are drawn to lock together and maintain this shape. I fixed the base parts to the fuselage with masking tape and add each part with regard to the rest, checking angles, notches etc. So far it is working and surprisingly robust......

Still about 20 parts to add.....

Pat
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:32 AM
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Lnagel's Avatar
Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maltone
I told them to hide.........
Or at least put some clothes on.
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 01:48 AM
What's 3D?
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Australia, WA, Ellenbrook
Joined Feb 2008
3,316 Posts
great to see you are dealing with what is probably the trickiest part of the build with your usual casual brilliance! she looks fantastic. it will be interesting to see your method on the curved plexiglass panes, are you going to make a plug foreach section or pull it as one piece?

Cheers
Craig
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 02:15 AM
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Turkey
Joined May 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maltone View Post
Bulent, I'm only doing silkspan-over-sheet on this model. I believe all I have to do is dope it on using ordinary nitrate dope. I tried a bit on the tailplane using coarser tissue and it worked OK so I guess 000 Silkspan will be easier!

Pat
Sure, that should be good enough on solid surfaces. I had thought there were some fabric covered parts.. I applied thin fiberglass cloth (14 grams/sq. meter) on balsa surfaces using dope instead of epoxy; and that also works. The fabric weave swells a bit when the subsequent dope or paint layers are applied, but it settles down later.

Bulent
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 03:00 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,747 Posts
Bulent, I am really only doing the dope/tissue thing to give some strength to the miles of balsa sheet - there will also be some filler and I'm not sure whether I should fill before tissue or after! No fabric surfaces on this one - all aluminium.

Craig, I did some checks and the if I cut 'gores' or seperate front to rear panes, they can almost be pulled down and glued to a curve BUT I have the horrors of joints coming apart when it's all done as they would be under tension. So my current thinking is to make a simple plug that can be a 'one size fits all' from the back to the front, one pane wide and mould fore and aft strips. It works in my head but that is no guarantee
The flat sections underneath are obviously no problem. The plan of course, offers no help at all........

Pat (about 75% done now....)
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 07:15 AM
Bond, Hotglue Bond
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Joined Apr 2006
4,142 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by maltone View Post
Bulent, I'm only doing silkspan-over-sheet on this model. I believe all I have to do is dope it on using ordinary nitrate dope. I tried a bit on the tailplane using coarser tissue and it worked OK so I guess 000 Silkspan will be easier!

A start has been made on the cockpit framing - I'm getting very close and peronal with my cheapo Metabo scroll saw. The frame parts are all cut from 1/8 good-quality ply and since most are only 1/8 wide, they are quite fragile. I found running the saw at almost max speed helps with accuracy. My eyesight though, doesn't help with accuracy

It is amazing that a hand drawn plan of such a complex shape has so far worked almost exactly! As is well known, the nose is NOT a regular softdrink bottle shape. It is skewed to the starboard side (so the pilot can see past the nose gunner), has a steeper curve underneath, and the round nose ring is angled downward. All the frame bits (over 30 of them) are drawn to lock together and maintain this shape. I fixed the base parts to the fuselage with masking tape and add each part with regard to the rest, checking angles, notches etc. So far it is working and surprisingly robust......

Still about 20 parts to add.....

Pat
A-mazing!

Even the dwarfs...
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 11:39 AM
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Johannesburg, South Africa
Joined Apr 2006
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What glue do you use the glue the window panels to the wood?
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 08:56 PM
Cut it twice, still too short
dglo's Avatar
Bay City, MI
Joined Oct 2007
647 Posts
Just when I think I'm getting to be a moderately good builder, I see a thread like this and am truly humbled. Amazing. Can't wait to see how that nose comes together. Go Maltone!
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Old Oct 22, 2012, 09:48 PM
The "pro" in procrastination
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Canada, ON, Kingston
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Now that is cool...
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:41 AM
a.k.a Maltone
Australia, NSW, Goulburn
Joined Jan 2005
6,747 Posts
Bird cage assembled...

Finally, the framework of the '111's cockpit area is done. A bit rough at this stage but plenty of sanding, filing, filling, and swearing should get it acceptable!

I thought I'd taught myself a lesson many years ago building from a 1960's era plan. Whenever I needed to check something against a photo, thing didn't add up. They dont here either. I guess definitive, accurate measured drawings were uncommon and although not obvious in this case, a few of the many 'panes' are not exactly like the original. I'd not realised just how complex the structure was! Almost no glazed or closed pane is the same as another. Some are flat, some curved, some are arranged to suit the bomb-aimer, and some allow the pilot to see the runway clearly - but it's done and after much cleaning up will be good

I see why cut ply was used - any attempt to bend square stock results in the tensions distorting the frame. I tried. All the little joints are halved and when glued, seem very strong. I didn't even break anything - even after dropping it on the floor

About a third of the panels are solid, many panels are solid with small windows in them, while the rest are fully glazed. That something to look forward to

Pat
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:54 AM
What's 3D?
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Australia, WA, Ellenbrook
Joined Feb 2008
3,316 Posts
Looks great mate, with all that glazing you are going to be one busy fella building the crew stations! Shares in the Evergreen plastic company will skyrocket

Craig
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:22 AM
Oh no, not again!
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United States, LA, Carencro
Joined Dec 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trumps View Post
Looks great mate, with all that glazing you are going to be one busy fella building the crew stations! Shares in the Evergreen plastic company will skyrocket

Craig
Ain't that the truth. At least on this build, though, the added weight of goodies is all helping with the c/g (he says to egg Pat on)

Regards,
Jeff

btw, you were moving so quickly on this one, I was sure the elves were back from vacation.
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 09:25 AM
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Phoenix, AZ
Joined Oct 2004
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Pat, great work on the bird cage! Looking forward to seeing how you fill in the panels.

D-Rock
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 01:09 PM
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Moab, Utah, USA
Joined Apr 2003
5,887 Posts
Very impressive Pat. Not sure I would tackle such a task. Looking forward to the glazing portion.

Larry
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Old Oct 23, 2012, 03:17 PM
AKA Jon Rider
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United States, MA, Holliston
Joined May 2004
1,049 Posts
Pat - are you going to put any carbon fiber or support on the bottom framing for any possible "nose over" on grass fields? - or will the engine nacelles touch before the nose? - I know I always find the rut in the grass with my wheels and everything ends up on it's nose.... knocked a few Piper cub air inlet filters off that way just wondering?
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