New Product Eagle Eyes Ground Station: Antenna Tracking, Diversity, Telemetry, distribution

[garris2]

Mr Pibb, Quote "so I'm assuming there's some sort of drive circuit build into the pan/tilt setup that then plugs into the servos?" UnQuote

Yes, thats what the Eagletree Eagle Eyes is going to do.

As I said, I 'm waiting for a controller circuit to drive it, I don't have anything yet, still waiting.

And all of those questions you asked about setup and zero and initialization and continous running and which way is north and calibration, that will be taken care of by the controller when somebody gets one to market.

cheers Geoff

[Mr.Pibb]

Hi Geoff,
Actually, I worded my comment wrong. It looks like the pan/tilt setup you have has the potentiometers right on the pivot points, so it must be doing something different than normal to control the servos. I'm assuming by the gearing that the servos are operating as "continuous" servos that can travel more than 360 degrees in any direction? Based on the model number I read off of the servo, that must mean they modified it in some way?

[garris2]

ok Mr Pibb, yes it is doing something different, but its not actually really all that different. To quote myself "It uses standard servos that you need to do a small mod on yourself".

That is with this particular pan/tilt arrangenment that has extended travel and (torque/power) a standard servo can be used with a simple modification. The pots you see are supplied with the pan/tilt units, and you also can buy them with or without servos, you can even buy them from Servo City pre modded for you.
The process is very well documented by Servo City in the included instructions.
It very simple, It involves.....
1. Open the servo and disconnect the wires from the pot to the servo's amplifier board.
2. Solder the wires from the external pot to the amplifier board (in the correct positions)
3. remove the drive mechanism from the servo's output gear that connects to the servos internal feedback pot.
4. re-assemble the servo

You now have a servo that has 6 wires coming from it, 3 as per normal that go to the control circuitry and 3 that go to the external pot.

At the time of purchase, when choosing the degree of rotation of the now giant servo, an external pot is supplied with the correct value resistance to achieve the desired degree of rotation.
To the drive circuitry, the now giant servo acts and behaves just like a normal servo.
You can even select different gear ratios to obtain a desired torque multiplication factor.

cheers Geoff

[Mr.Pibb]

thanks Geoff! Interesting setup. Looks like it can pan/tilt a tank.

[tbmg1]

From VRflyer

I just received my EZosd and tracking antenna and also the diversity reeiver from Immersionrc at the event at the meeting in France, they have begin to sell them;

I very happy to see a new system comming on the market, but Im sceptical about the 70 dollard price. Its an Oracle diversity plus a traccking module. yes it,s possible, but I,m very sceptical...

[ob1]

Originally Posted by ssassen

The Duo2400 looks at the RSSI signal from the receivers directly (which is generated in the RF frontend of the receiver and indicates received signal strength) which is far superior to looking at lost sync, or frames, or other similar mechanisms.

The Duo2400 sounds like a really good product and very compact as well.....but is limited to 2.4 GHz and many of us in the USA have switched to using 900 MHz due to conflicts with the new 2.4 RC radio systems, wireless routers, and other commercial and/or residential use of the 2.4 band.
As far as which approach to diversity is best (examining RSSI versus scanning the video stream), I'm not so sure you can say that looking at RSSI "is far superior". I seem to recall discussions in several threads over the past couple of years where guys who are knowledgeable in this stuff have suggested there are issues with both approaches. When scanning and assessing the "quality" of the video stream, there is no awareness of signal strength or when it might drop-off dramatically or any of the other aspects that affect signal strength......and when assessing the RSSI-indicated signal strength there is no awareness of video quality (sync problems, missing frames, noise, etc). One approach essentially measures the strength of the received signal that is "carrying" the data, and the other analyzes the actual "contents" of the data received. Since I am not an expert I don't know if one is necessarily superior to the other...only that they represent different approaches and each has its own set of limitations. Perhaps a marriage of the two approaches might produce the most bullet-proof and highest quality video, but I doubt it would be the most cost-effective
Regards,
ob1

[ssassen]

Ob1,

I guess I got a little carried away, superior is clearly a matter of perspective and implementation.

Regardless one thing is essential here (if you want videos without dropouts) and that is the speed at which the mechanism used acts on a degradation in signal strength/quality. The RSSI approach used is very fast, as (in our case) the RSSI signal has a high slew rate and tracks the received antenna signal almost instantly.

If you're looking at the other end of a receiver, at the AV output, you're looking at the processed analog signal. That works, but (for example) in order to detect a missing sync you might lose one or more frames prior to switching to the other receiver and there's no way of knowing it has a better signal available unless you monitor both. If you don't monitor both and it has a worse signal than the original receiver you've just gone from a bad to a worse situation in terms of signal quality.

I'm not saying a clever solution cannot be found, however looking at the issue from where it originates (the received antenna signal) rather than the resulting AV output is an approach that has had the best success rate, that's something any RF tech will tell you.

Cheers,

Sander.

[pratorian]

Originally Posted by ssassen

Ps. whomever reported me to the admin for making my previous post, please refrain from doing so again, trying to censor posts in this topic because you don't want others to know there are already solutions available for purchase is a little sad.

That's not why people flagged your post... you were basically calling Bill a thief and talking about stealing ideas when you did the exact same thing yourself, you didn't come up with the first OSD and as others said antenna tracker neither, you're just pissed because he's planning to come up with a cheaper solution than yours so you just hijacked his thread to promote your stuff like you always do...

I was gonna order your osd and tracker as soon as it's available, well I'm gonna wait to see what eagle tree comes out with now because of that very post, stealing ideas... yea right

[ob1]

Originally Posted by ssassen

If you're looking at the other end of a receiver, at the AV output, you're looking at the processed analog signal. That works, but (for example) in order to detect a missing sync you might lose one or more frames prior to switching to the other receiver and there's no way of knowing it has a better signal available unless you monitor both. If you don't monitor both and it has a worse signal than the original receiver you've just gone from a bad to a worse situation in terms of signal quality.

I'm not saying a clever solution cannot be found, however looking at the issue from where it originates (the received antenna signal) rather than the resulting AV output is an approach that has had the best success rate, that's something any RF tech will tell you.

Good points......but couln't the same be said for monitoring RSSI strength?.....i.e. if you only monitor one and it degrades, when you switch to the other there is no guarantee it will be better unless BOTH are being monitored. So it seems the main difference is "timing"...i.e. it likely takes less time to detect and make a "switch" when using RSSI versus the length of time it takes to analyze the quality of the video stream and then make a switch...even if you are monitoring both receivers with each approach.

Do you have any plans to market a "Duo900" ? I'm kinda surprised that IRC has chosen so far to only implement 2.4-based diversity, since there is such tremendous growth in the marketing and use of 2.4-based RC systems in many countries. I realize every band many not be legal in all countries, but clearly the RC radio vendors (Futaba, JR/Spektrum, Airtronics, Multiplex, Hitec, and others) are heading full-speed down the 2.4 road, so it seems IRC and other diversity vendors need to be marketing alternative solutions to 2.4.
Regards,
ob1

Regards,
ob1

[pratorian]

Originally Posted by ssassen

I just love it when people don't properly read someone else's posts, let me quote the original post shall we? I'll leave for you to highlight exactly where I used the phrase 'stealing' or 'thief'.

Originally Posted by ssassen

so Eagle Tree didn't come up with this idea, they're simply copying ours

Copying, stealing, you're saying it's YOUR idea, no it's not and no they're not, they're copying whoever invented antenna tracking just like you did.

Originally Posted by ssassen

As for a cheaper solution, where can I buy ET's? Unless it is available pricing itself is to be determined still, or does ET have a crystal ball they gaze into?

Those guys have been around for a long time, they have great products and know about development costs etc. so we can expect the final price to be somewhere around that. Bill isn't a nobody coming out of nowhere.

Originally Posted by ssassen

The thing that does makes me chuckle however is the fact that ET preannounces a product announcement and a whole bunch of people shout 'preorder' and flick out their credit cards.

Well same thing with Vova and many others... I also dont understand why some people would want to pre order a product based on an idea, I guess some people have a lot of spare change.

Originally Posted by ssassen

As for me posting in this topic, I happen to be on RCG often and participate in a wide variety of discussions. Every now and then a topic gets started which talks about something we've already developed and is available through our distributors.

No, whenever an other manufacturer or someone starts a thread about their products you just jump in, try to diss theirs and show how your product will be much better.

Originally Posted by ssassen

For reasons unknown to me the people in that topic aren't aware of this as no one seems to mention that such a solution is already available from a different vendor, so I simply hint a that.

I'm sure everybody here is aware that you are coming out with an OSD and an antenna tracker, Anthony announced the OSD and long range control system like 95 years ago so people just don't believe in anything he is associated with now, can't blame them. You said it's already available, who is selling your OSD and tracker ? I checked all the vendors I know and don't see anything about your OSD and tracker, even your own website isn't updated...

[reznikvova]

Originally Posted by pratorian

Well same thing with Vova and many others...

You sure know me well.

I'll show you the same ..

Watch this space.

[ssassen]

they're copying whoever invented antenna tracking just like you did.

Well, if you follow that train of thought everything is based on prior art or older ideas, hence there's very little 'original' ideas around.

Those guys have been around for a long time, they have great products and know about development costs etc. so we can expect the final price to be somewhere around that. Bill isn't a nobody coming out of nowhere.

Duely noted, but Bill can't estimate a price unless he has some rough idea on what parts will be needed etc. if I follow his replies in this topic he has yet to finalize the bulk of the design requirements so putting a price tag on something is a bit premature, or maybe just a rather transparant approach to want to price 'the competition' out of the market before even having a working solution on the shelves.

No, whenever an other manufacturer or someone starts a thread about their products you just jump in, try to diss theirs and show how your product will be much better.

Not really, frankly I have better things to do with my time than to comment on someone else's prospective products, unless I see some obvious false statements being made, which has happened in the past with IF, I'm kind of allergic to manufacturers misinforming their customers and can be pretty strong worded when it comes to that.

You said it's already available, who is selling your OSD and tracker ? I checked all the vendors I know and don't see anything about your OSD and tracker, even your own website isn't updated...

First batches were sold at the FPV event in L'Aigle last week. New batches are about to be shipped out to the distributors and resellers. As for the website, that indeed needs to be updated, but I only have one pair of hands, a busy daytime job, a family and there's only about 24 hours in a day. I'll get to that soon, at least before the products appear in stores.

Cheers,

Sander.