Eagle Eyes Ground Station: Antenna Tracking, Diversity, Telemetry, distribution - Page 3

billpa · May 12, 2009, 11:56 PM

Ok - WOW. Clearly there is interest in this product! Thanks so much for the great feedback.

We need a name for this product. "Eagle Eyes"?

Definitely open to better suggestions on this.

Based on the feedback, here's what we have so far:

* Two video inputs -NTSC/PAL (using your video receivers of any frequency)
* Two audio inputs - monaural
* Independent selection of best video input and best audio input. Need to do some thinking about how to do the latter at low cost.
* Two to Four A/V outputs - having more than two will increase the cost. I'm researching ways to try to get up to four without a big cost increase.
* Headphone jack audio output with volume control. Amplified PC speakers can be connected to this, if headphones are not desired.
* Outputs for pan and tilt mechanisms. We will make this generic, and/or will have profiles to select the particular pan/tilt config being used.
* various buttons and LEDs for configuration/status
* Port for connecting to PC, for live PC display of telemetry and firmware update
* Soft adjustment of video and audio levels, for matching (just like we do with audio with the OSD-Pro)
* Price guestimate: $50 - $70 depending on feature set

Regarding some of the questions/feedback:

I hope we'll have enough bandwidth to transmit down the entire telemetry packet via the video - not just the GPS info. If so, this will mean that our PC software can be fully utilized and video + full telemetry gauges can be displayed on the PC. Note that a special adapter cable will be needed for PC telemetry from the "Eagle Eyes."

Regardless of whether full telemetry is downloaded, we'll support real-time Google Earth on the PC. We've supported real-time Google Earth with our telemetry systems for the last 3 years, by the way - hoping to avoid more yelling.

On that subject, we have worked with customers who built their own antenna trackers based on our telemetry data, starting in 2004. But I digress....

That ServoCity pan/tilt looks like a gem! Also, I love the idea of a pre-built plywood pan/tilt setup to accomodate larger antennas. There's an email right now with someone else on this thread about designing this, but he may not want to be identified.

spyder11, you'd still need our OSD-Pro to get the antenna tracking. It uses the GPS info to do that. But, the OSD-Pro's display can be turned completely off.

Please keep the feedback coming! We want to build the ultimate FPV ground station the first time around.

Regards,

Bill, for Eagle Tree

hobbyboy · May 13, 2009, 01:26 AM

Bill, you are a gentleman. I hope others would show the same kind of restraint....

Bob

dadde · May 13, 2009, 03:59 AM

I think that two A/V outputs is good enough.
Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I will buy one regardless

boopidoo · May 13, 2009, 04:31 AM

Wow, I love how this hobby keep on hijacking my interest. I picked up my first ET modules yesterday (altimeter, gps-5hz, rpm) and now I wait for my hobbycity order to clear the Swedish customs (v3 logger & ET-osd). I'm on my way to upgrade from my Futaba 6ch to a Futaba 12FGA or a 10C on which I plan on using Thomas Scherrers highly regarded UHF-system.

My car really needs some maintenance and I also need to re-activate my flight certificate but all those things are on hold right now.

And now this... the hits just keep on coming and I'm loving it!

PS: Any one know if there's some patch antennas out there that can handle 1,3GHz?

PS2: I'll vote for 2 A/V outputs. Maybe an extra module for those that needs two more would be a way to go. This would also be a modular way to solve this issue and everyone will be happy.

PS3: Is Google Earth the only/best way to present this data. If you lack internet connection you must pre-cache the maps which is cumbersome. Also you need to purchase plus or pro to be able to cache in Google Earth. Or have I missed something?

MorrisM · May 13, 2009, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadde

I think that two A/V outputs is good enough.
Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I will buy one regardless

My thoughts exactly

CrocEnd · May 13, 2009, 05:49 AM

Pre Order for ME too

when and how

Good luck on this one sounds great.

Mr.Pibb · May 13, 2009, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billpa

Also, I love the idea of a pre-built plywood pan/tilt setup to accomodate larger antennas. There's an email right now with someone else on this thread about designing this, but he may not want to be identified.

Bill, for Eagle Tree

OK, you mentioned it so I guess I'll chime in.

Guys, I'm looking at building an antenna pan/tilt kit to work with the Eagle Tree system. For the pan, I'm planning on designing a geared setup similar to my pan/tilt setup for cameras. http://readymaderc.com/store/index.p...&products_id=6 The tilt setup will need to be designed differently so it can handle the weight of the antennas. I like using a geared setup for pan because you can use just about any servo without any modifications and get in this case 360 degrees of panning (+/- 180).

The tilt assembly will have to handle two antennas since we're dealing with diversity setups, and I'm going to assume that it will handle antennas as large as the 8dBi 900MHz antennas.

I plan to set it up so it will mount to a tripod. I'd like to set it up so that the receivers and diversity setup can mount on it easily, but I'd also like to keep the cost down as much as possible so I'm going to try to use as little material as possible.

Anyway, I'm just starting to think about this, so any requests/suggestions are welcome!

Tim

techspy · May 13, 2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadde

I think that two A/V outputs is good enough.
Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I will buy one regardless

Same here.

As far as the pan/tilt, in my particular setup I would only be panning/tilting one patch antenna as my other one is an omni.

As for the Google Earth viewing, would it be possible just to pass the raw gps info in a NMEA format so that it could be used in any application?

On a related subject Bill. It would be great if the new Data Recorder software had the ability to move the items around in the dashboard view. I am using a smaller laptop and have problems viewing everything without having to scroll when there is plenty of open space that isn't being used. This will be especially important with the added info and telemetry data.

nathanj988 · May 13, 2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadde

I think that two A/V outputs is good enough.
Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I will buy one regardless

Also my thoughts

pratorian · May 13, 2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadde

I think that two A/V outputs is good enough.
Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I will buy one regardless

same here

tychoc · May 13, 2009, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadde

I think that two A/V outputs is good enough.
Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me.
Just my 2 cents.
I will buy one regardless

Ditto. I rather the price stayed lower than having more A/V outputs.

-tychoc

JustinONE · May 13, 2009, 11:36 AM

can you add a 3-4 camera switching box if some kind? would be cool to use the flight mode switch on tx to select between differnt views if possible

BrainDrain_dx · May 13, 2009, 11:39 AM

Fine, Ill buy a damn seperate splitter

If cost is a problem ditch the other two.
Dont need best audio but the external speakers sound like a great idea, i would really use that.

garris2 · May 13, 2009, 12:57 PM

This is the Pan/Tilt mechanism I have just waiting for a controller circuit to drive it. Its from Servo City, It uses standard servos that you need to do a small mod on yourself. The tilt gives over 90deg of swing and the pan gives 90, 180, 360 and I think 3 times around or continous depending on the particular configuration you choose. Yes I know its expensive but I don't care, its just another option you can choose from.
Thats an 8 inch 8dBi patch antenna attached.

Post #343 of the Eagletree OSD-Pro thread starts off the talk about possible antenna tracking using the OSD-Pro.

Below is what I wrote in post number #374 as a possible method of operation then ob1 followed up in post #383 with what I think sounds like a very good way of making the system work well.

#374
I'm also really glad to hear about the GPS data being easy to send down to a ground based board for strip out the data. Re antenna geometry, I think the main idea is a patch type (or could even be a yagi) and then pan/tilt system where say setup procedure could be something like this...
1. servos initialize at 1.5ms (oriente tripod to centre of fly zone, set tilt to roughly 45deg).
2. press a button to capture home (aeroplane near antenna)
3. press and hold a button to increment/decrement sweep of pan servo, press another button to capture max available sweep of servo.
4. repeat for tilt.
I don't really know how it could be done, just beginning thoughts that surely could be improved upon by experts.

#383
It's not even absolutely necessary to do 90 degree elevation or 360 degree azimuth. If you visualize the pan/tilt mechanisms we currently use for our cameras and mentally scale that up, you will have a good idea of the "mechanical antenna geometry" that would be needed. Now to drive that geometry still only requires a couple of common 180-degree servos from some place like Servo City. One of them would drive the rotating base 180 degrees for the pan function. The tilt would be as follows: if you mount a patch on the tilt and pointed it straight up it would represent "0" tilt, then if the gps coordinates translate to point the tilt in one direction then the servo can drive the tilt up to 90 degrees on one side or up to 90 degrees on the other side. This approach would allow you to cover the entire sky. For example, if the plane were flying on one side of the tracking base, the tilt would move the patch from vertical (pointing up) to horizontal (pointing sideways) or anywhere in between as needed for elevation ON THAT SIDE.....and the base could rotate up to 180 degrees for azimuth ON THAT SIDE. If the plane flys to the OTHER SIDE of the tracking base, then the tilt servo moves the patch to follow from one side to the other and the base can still rotate 180 degrees to follow the gps coordinates on that side. This is all much harder to describe than it actually is to accomplish mechanically. Visualize one of those big radio-telescope antennas. You don't have to rotate the base 360 degrees in azimuth.....only 180.....then flip the antenna from one side to the other and you now have 180 degrees of coverage on the other size. This would allow us to use an easily-made rotating base similar to a lazy-susan, with a tilt mechanism for our patch that is similar to the one we use for our cameras, only larger. In fact, some vendor will probably offer laser-cut kits for "tracking antennas" just like Range Video offers the laser-cut camera mounting kits. In any case, this approach keeps it simple for you and for us, and lets us use off-the-shelf low cost servos. You would then translate the gps azimuth coordinates into some analog servo position between 0 and 180 degrees of rotation in one direction, and the gps elevation coordinates into some analog servo position between 90 and 180 degrees of rotation in one direction. If the plane flys to the OTHER SIDE of the antenna tracker, the elevation servo move in the other direction (90 to 0 degrees) and the azimuth becomes an analog servo position that is 180 to 0 degrees in the opposite rotation. I am sure there would need to be some sort of "initilization" button that would allow us to set up the tracker base in whatever orientation you recommend (based on your firmware coding or parameters we specify), which would allow it to "learn" its current location and orientation. This approach also takes some advantage of the fact that most of our common patch antennas have a "beam pattern" that represents somewhat of a cone shape...i.e the further away you are from the patch the wider the coverage provided by the beam. So in a sense the tracker mechanism is keeping the patch pointed in fairly specific patch of sky where the plane is, even if it is not directly aimed at the plane like a rifle barrel, and the antenna beam pattern is providing coverage of a larger and more general patch of sky in the general direction of the planes current location. Sorry for so much detail, as this is difficult to explain in a post....perhaps a picture would have been better
Thx...
ob1

This may stimulate more thought.

cheers Geoff

Mr.Pibb · May 13, 2009, 06:22 PM

Interesting. How does that pan/tilt setup know where zero is? It looks like the servo would have to be a continuous running servo, so I'm assuming there's some sort of drive circuit build into the pan/tilt setup that then plugs into the servos? The advantage of this is that you can gear the pan/tilt setup down instead of up, reducing the load on the servos. It also takes away some of the variables between different servos.

For initialization of the setup, there will certainly need to be some sort of way to show the system which direction it's pointing, which way is north, etc...
Depending on the servo setup, you may need to "calibrate" the travel of the servos as well so when it thinks it's pointing a particular way it really is.

May 13, 2009, 12:57 PM	#44
garris2 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 253	This is the Pan/Tilt mechanism I have just waiting for a controller circuit to drive it. Its from Servo City, It uses standard servos that you need to do a small mod on yourself. The tilt gives over 90deg of swing and the pan gives 90, 180, 360 and I think 3 times around or continous depending on the particular configuration you choose. Yes I know its expensive but I don't care, its just another option you can choose from. Thats an 8 inch 8dBi patch antenna attached. Post #343 of the Eagletree OSD-Pro thread starts off the talk about possible antenna tracking using the OSD-Pro. Below is what I wrote in post number #374 as a possible method of operation then ob1 followed up in post #383 with what I think sounds like a very good way of making the system work well. #374 I'm also really glad to hear about the GPS data being easy to send down to a ground based board for strip out the data. Re antenna geometry, I think the main idea is a patch type (or could even be a yagi) and then pan/tilt system where say setup procedure could be something like this... 1. servos initialize at 1.5ms (oriente tripod to centre of fly zone, set tilt to roughly 45deg). 2. press a button to capture home (aeroplane near antenna) 3. press and hold a button to increment/decrement sweep of pan servo, press another button to capture max available sweep of servo. 4. repeat for tilt. I don't really know how it could be done, just beginning thoughts that surely could be improved upon by experts. #383 It's not even absolutely necessary to do 90 degree elevation or 360 degree azimuth. If you visualize the pan/tilt mechanisms we currently use for our cameras and mentally scale that up, you will have a good idea of the "mechanical antenna geometry" that would be needed. Now to drive that geometry still only requires a couple of common 180-degree servos from some place like Servo City. One of them would drive the rotating base 180 degrees for the pan function. The tilt would be as follows: if you mount a patch on the tilt and pointed it straight up it would represent "0" tilt, then if the gps coordinates translate to point the tilt in one direction then the servo can drive the tilt up to 90 degrees on one side or up to 90 degrees on the other side. This approach would allow you to cover the entire sky. For example, if the plane were flying on one side of the tracking base, the tilt would move the patch from vertical (pointing up) to horizontal (pointing sideways) or anywhere in between as needed for elevation ON THAT SIDE.....and the base could rotate up to 180 degrees for azimuth ON THAT SIDE. If the plane flys to the OTHER SIDE of the tracking base, then the tilt servo moves the patch to follow from one side to the other and the base can still rotate 180 degrees to follow the gps coordinates on that side. This is all much harder to describe than it actually is to accomplish mechanically. Visualize one of those big radio-telescope antennas. You don't have to rotate the base 360 degrees in azimuth.....only 180.....then flip the antenna from one side to the other and you now have 180 degrees of coverage on the other size. This would allow us to use an easily-made rotating base similar to a lazy-susan, with a tilt mechanism for our patch that is similar to the one we use for our cameras, only larger. In fact, some vendor will probably offer laser-cut kits for "tracking antennas" just like Range Video offers the laser-cut camera mounting kits. In any case, this approach keeps it simple for you and for us, and lets us use off-the-shelf low cost servos. You would then translate the gps azimuth coordinates into some analog servo position between 0 and 180 degrees of rotation in one direction, and the gps elevation coordinates into some analog servo position between 90 and 180 degrees of rotation in one direction. If the plane flys to the OTHER SIDE of the antenna tracker, the elevation servo move in the other direction (90 to 0 degrees) and the azimuth becomes an analog servo position that is 180 to 0 degrees in the opposite rotation. I am sure there would need to be some sort of "initilization" button that would allow us to set up the tracker base in whatever orientation you recommend (based on your firmware coding or parameters we specify), which would allow it to "learn" its current location and orientation. This approach also takes some advantage of the fact that most of our common patch antennas have a "beam pattern" that represents somewhat of a cone shape...i.e the further away you are from the patch the wider the coverage provided by the beam. So in a sense the tracker mechanism is keeping the patch pointed in fairly specific patch of sky where the plane is, even if it is not directly aimed at the plane like a rifle barrel, and the antenna beam pattern is providing coverage of a larger and more general patch of sky in the general direction of the planes current location. Sorry for so much detail, as this is difficult to explain in a post....perhaps a picture would have been better Thx... ob1 This may stimulate more thought. cheers Geoff Attached Thumbnails 59.9 KB · Views: 353 45.6 KB · Views: 184 45.6 KB · Views: 211 69.4 KB · Views: 236

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Build Log My home made FPV system: OSD+diversity+telemetry+tracking antenna+autopilot+PC	Zbig	Video Piloting (FPV/RPV)	75	Sep 20, 2009 08:30 AM
Discussion Eagle Tree GPS unit, live tracking?	JustinONE	Video Piloting (FPV/RPV)	10	Jan 11, 2009 04:27 PM
FA: FLIGHT DATA RECORDER by Eagle Tree Systems	Bob	rec.models.rc.air	2	Apr 30, 2004 01:00 PM
FS: Eagle Tree Systems RC Car Data Recorder	hankster	Cars - Cars and Parts (FS/W)	0	Dec 27, 2003 10:50 AM
New USB data logger accessories and Holiday specials from Eagle Tree Systems	billpa	Product Announcements	0	Nov 08, 2003 01:51 PM

May 12, 2009, 11:56 PM	#31
billpa Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,595	Ok - WOW. Clearly there is interest in this product! Thanks so much for the great feedback. We need a name for this product. "Eagle Eyes"? Definitely open to better suggestions on this. Based on the feedback, here's what we have so far: * Two video inputs -NTSC/PAL (using your video receivers of any frequency) * Two audio inputs - monaural * Independent selection of best video input and best audio input. Need to do some thinking about how to do the latter at low cost. * Two to Four A/V outputs - having more than two will increase the cost. I'm researching ways to try to get up to four without a big cost increase. * Headphone jack audio output with volume control. Amplified PC speakers can be connected to this, if headphones are not desired. * Outputs for pan and tilt mechanisms. We will make this generic, and/or will have profiles to select the particular pan/tilt config being used. * various buttons and LEDs for configuration/status * Port for connecting to PC, for live PC display of telemetry and firmware update * Soft adjustment of video and audio levels, for matching (just like we do with audio with the OSD-Pro) * Price guestimate: $50 - $70 depending on feature set Regarding some of the questions/feedback: I hope we'll have enough bandwidth to transmit down the entire telemetry packet via the video - not just the GPS info. If so, this will mean that our PC software can be fully utilized and video + full telemetry gauges can be displayed on the PC. Note that a special adapter cable will be needed for PC telemetry from the "Eagle Eyes." Regardless of whether full telemetry is downloaded, we'll support real-time Google Earth on the PC. We've supported real-time Google Earth with our telemetry systems for the last 3 years, by the way - hoping to avoid more yelling. On that subject, we have worked with customers who built their own antenna trackers based on our telemetry data, starting in 2004. But I digress.... That ServoCity pan/tilt looks like a gem! Also, I love the idea of a pre-built plywood pan/tilt setup to accomodate larger antennas. There's an email right now with someone else on this thread about designing this, but he may not want to be identified. spyder11, you'd still need our OSD-Pro to get the antenna tracking. It uses the GPS info to do that. But, the OSD-Pro's display can be turned completely off. Please keep the feedback coming! We want to build the ultimate FPV ground station the first time around. Regards, Bill, for Eagle Tree

May 13, 2009, 01:26 AM	#32
hobbyboy Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 200	Bill, you are a gentleman. I hope others would show the same kind of restraint.... Bob

May 13, 2009, 03:59 AM	#33
dadde The one and only Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Hjo, Sweden Posts: 328	I think that two A/V outputs is good enough. Independent selection of best video input and best audio input seems overkill to me. Just my 2 cents. I will buy one regardless

May 13, 2009, 04:31 AM	#34
boopidoo Registered User Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 430	Wow, I love how this hobby keep on hijacking my interest. I picked up my first ET modules yesterday (altimeter, gps-5hz, rpm) and now I wait for my hobbycity order to clear the Swedish customs (v3 logger & ET-osd). I'm on my way to upgrade from my Futaba 6ch to a Futaba 12FGA or a 10C on which I plan on using Thomas Scherrers highly regarded UHF-system. My car really needs some maintenance and I also need to re-activate my flight certificate but all those things are on hold right now. And now this... the hits just keep on coming and I'm loving it! PS: Any one know if there's some patch antennas out there that can handle 1,3GHz? PS2: I'll vote for 2 A/V outputs. Maybe an extra module for those that needs two more would be a way to go. This would also be a modular way to solve this issue and everyone will be happy. PS3: Is Google Earth the only/best way to present this data. If you lack internet connection you must pre-cache the maps which is cumbersome. Also you need to purchase plus or pro to be able to cache in Google Earth. Or have I missed something? Last edited by boopidoo; May 13, 2009 at 04:38 AM.

May 13, 2009, 05:49 AM	#36
CrocEnd Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Darwin Posts: 393	Pre Order for ME too when and how Good luck on this one sounds great.

May 13, 2009, 11:36 AM	#42
JustinONE Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Torrance Posts: 1,215	can you add a 3-4 camera switching box if some kind? would be cool to use the flight mode switch on tx to select between differnt views if possible

May 13, 2009, 11:39 AM	#43
BrainDrain_dx dx4life Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 239	Fine, Ill buy a damn seperate splitter If cost is a problem ditch the other two. Dont need best audio but the external speakers sound like a great idea, i would really use that.

May 13, 2009, 06:22 PM	#45
Mr.Pibb Cleanroom Ninja Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lewis Center, OH Posts: 1,720	Interesting. How does that pan/tilt setup know where zero is? It looks like the servo would have to be a continuous running servo, so I'm assuming there's some sort of drive circuit build into the pan/tilt setup that then plugs into the servos? The advantage of this is that you can gear the pan/tilt setup down instead of up, reducing the load on the servos. It also takes away some of the variables between different servos. For initialization of the setup, there will certainly need to be some sort of way to show the system which direction it's pointing, which way is north, etc... Depending on the servo setup, you may need to "calibrate" the travel of the servos as well so when it thinks it's pointing a particular way it really is.