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Old May 22, 2015, 10:00 PM
floodgate is offline
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Help!
R/C beginner with SIG "Demoiselle" Kit

I am experienced in balsa and tissue paper model construction but TOTALLY new to Radio Control. Was fascinated by the SIG "Demoiselle" kit and promptly bought one. But - except for a few days with one of the palm-sized quad-copters - I am (as I said) totally new to Radio Control. Two questions:

1) Can anyone recommend a source for a "package" of the on-board R/C components for the SIG "Demoiselle": motor/propeller, servos (2 plus motor controller), battery pack, antenna, + anything else?

2.) I have the controller for the Hubsan X-10 quad-copter; can it be used to fly the Demoiselle? I also got a new-in-box Sanwa "Airtronix RD-6000" controller, but find it totally overwhelming, and an "overkill" for the Demoiselle, which needs - apparently - only three control channels: motor, elevator and rudder. Can I link up with the Demoiselle "package" above using the Hubsan controller, to learn the basics first ?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Please use e-mail below, until I figure my way around this Board:

floodgate - at - boontnet - com

Thanks in advance….

Floodgate
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Last edited by floodgate; May 22, 2015 at 10:09 PM. Reason: Clarity
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Old May 23, 2015, 07:10 AM
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An itch?. Scratch build.
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I have found a couple of threads that may be useful --

SIG Demoiselle

Sig 1909 Demoiselle Build

There are more but they start to go back quite a way and technology may have moved on from what was used.

For that type of model the main criterion is to keep everything light.

Welcome to RCGrousp.
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Old May 23, 2015, 07:14 AM
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I called for the cavalry, floodgate. In the meantime, have you considered learning to fly with a tough but ultimately expendable plane, then going to the Demoiselle as your second? The SIG Demoiselle is a beautiful kit and I'd hate to see it destroyed in the predictable trials of learning. You deserve to ENJOY the thing!
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Old May 23, 2015, 09:57 AM
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You might not have much trouble getting the Demoiselle to fly and making any repairs in the process if you equip it with very light weight RC equipment and fly on very calm weather or indoors.

I would recommend you get a modern Spektrum transmitter and mini receiver, etc., suitable for this fly-weight model. Contact Spektrum/Horizon Hobby and ask for recommendation for a suitable transmitter, micro receiver, speed control and servos. The transmitter can be used for larger, more complex models if you stay in the hobby.
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Old May 23, 2015, 11:54 AM
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My research, subject to correction because I don't own a Sanwa radio, is that your system is one of the old 72 MHz radios. These radios still work fine, except that you have to keep in mind their fatal flaw. If another radio is switched on which has your frequency you'll experience a "shoot down" where you lose all control of the airplane.

Nowdays most are using 2.4 GHz radios, which frequency hop and do not interfere with each other, even when there are 30 other radios in operation around you. All the frequency control stuff we used to do in order to keep our models in one piece is history.

That's the good news/bad news. You don't have to worry about other radios but you must buy a new radio system. I'd recommend 2.4 GHz and because I've had great success with it, a Spektrum radio system.

You could sneak by with a DX5e but I'd recommend a minimum radio of a DX6i and hold out for the new DX6 if your finances justify it. You can sneak in at about $200 with the DX6 and for less with the others. The Spektrum transmitters are compatible with the excellent sub $10 receivers from Hobby King, the Orange RX or the Lemon receivers from........I'm not sure.

For a power system, including batteries and charger, I'd call the guys at Heads-Up RC in Ocala Florida. help@headsuphobby.com, 352-625-3556. They have cheap shipping, great prices and guys who know their stuff.
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Old May 23, 2015, 02:31 PM
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To All:

Thanks for the info, advice and recommendations; I've got some "chewing on" to do. As to interference, I will be flying the Demoiselle alone in a big metal exhibit hall at the local Fairground, to which I have access out of season, so interference should not be an issue.

Thanks again!!!

floodgate
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Old May 23, 2015, 02:46 PM
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All:

Thanks for the info, advice and recommendations. I've clearly got some "chewing on" todo. As to interference, I will be flying the Demoiselle alone in a big metal exhibit hall at the local Fairgrounds, to which I have access out of season, so interference should not be an issue.

And, the Hubsan quadcopter controller is a 2.4 GHz, 4 channel system, so should be adaptable, at least for learning purposes.

Again, many thanks to all who responded.

floodgate
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Old May 23, 2015, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
I called for the cavalry, floodgate. In the meantime, have you considered learning to fly with a tough but ultimately expendable plane, then going to the Demoiselle as your second? The SIG Demoiselle is a beautiful kit and I'd hate to see it destroyed in the predictable trials of learning. You deserve to ENJOY the thing!
This +10

If you're not scared of an easy foam build, go hit the scratchbuilt foamies section and check out such models as the OSG, Fogey-ish 60", Super Easy, Nutball, EzFly, and other slow, simple to build planes. I'd really recommend trying a Nutball, the build is trivial, and it's pretty forgiving.

For your first foamies, go cheap and easy. Buy a few 9g servos, there's 10 packs on ebay for $20, sometimes you get a bad one or just break one, so buy a handful at $2 each and you've got enough for a few models or spares.

Also, i buy 30A esc's from ebay for like $5 each, the HW30. Get a Cf2822 motor, 3mm bullet connectors, prop savers a few of your choice of battery connectors, XT60s are popular. If you get a 2s lipo, then get some 10" props. If you go with 3s get 8 and 9" props. I'd say get a 1300mah 2s pack, a bunch of 1047 props, the motor and esc, and whatever radio you choose. Orange RX's are a good deal, so are Lemons. Get a few sheets of foam from the dollar store and build a nutball to get a feel for the basics with on a simple platform that you can rebuild for a dollar and maybe 20 minutes when you crash and wear out the first one.
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Old May 28, 2015, 09:19 PM
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"Newbie" with Demoiselle

I'm not scared of starting with the Demoiselle; I thought I'd build and assemble all except the wing - leave that off for starters and run taxi trials and rudder / stabilizer function tests until I've gotten enough "feel" to add the wing and try flying it - all indoors in the Boonville, CA Fairground Ag Display Hall.

I've gotten a suite of battery pack, cables and connectors, servos, etc. coming from MAXX Products, as recommended for this very primitive "flyer" (but ever-so-much handsomer than the early Wrights!)

I'm going to try using the Hubsan X4 quadcopter's neat handheld, 4-channel, control transmitter and see if I can "decode" and adapt a spare Hubsan receiver "motherboard" to actuate the motor speed and rudder/elevator controls (3 channels only) needed to fly the Demoiselle. Comments from anyone familiar with this system are invited.

I may call on the "group" for advice here as I proceed.

Wish me luck!

Doug '"floodgate"
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Old May 29, 2015, 01:40 PM
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Okay, after a day's consideration I will say something. In post #1 you said you are a new pilot who is an absolute beginner at radio control. But you really drop the bomb in your last post.
Quote:
I'm going to try using the Hubsan X4 quadcopter's neat handheld, 4-channel, control transmitter and see if I can "decode" and adapt a spare Hubsan receiver "motherboard" to actuate the motor speed and rudder/elevator controls (3 channels only) needed to fly the Demoiselle. Comments from anyone familiar with this system are invited.
What you've done is set up the venerable multi-variable equation. Translated into English it's "am I left with a bundle of sticks because I don't know how to fly, or because the airplane is incapable of flying?" And your second term is also a two variable equation "is my plane incapable of flying because of aerodynamic deficiency or is it the experimental radio I cobbled together?"

It's not an entirely unsolvable problem, if you first fly the plane free-flight to ensure that its aerodynamics are straight, if you check out your radio in a plane you know flies excellently under the control of an experienced flier before you put Frankenstein's monster together. And if you then prove the design by having an experienced pilot vet the system before you try to learn to fly with it.

Only single variable equations are solvable. When you mix known non-pilot with experimental airplane with vastly modified radio system you've created the perfect storm, where after the carnage all you can say is "something didn't work."

Solve for one variable at a time. That's the road to success.
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Old May 29, 2015, 01:50 PM
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Don't waste your time with the Hubsan RX. You can get a basic FlySky 2.4 ghz 4 channel radio for $25 from Value Hobby - Link. It's not the radio dreams are made of, but it's all you need for the Demoiselle.

You are getting good advice from everyone here suggesting you start with a different plane. Ideally you would also learn from an instructor, at an AMA flying field, covered by AMA insurance.

There is more to RC than building and flying the plane. Do you know how to safely operate and store LiPo batteries? I'm guessing the Hubsan has a single cell battery, and an automatic charger. The Demoiselle will need at least a 2s (2 cell) battery, and you'll have to get a programmable charger and learn how to use it properly. If you get it wrong, you start a fire. Do you know how to deal with a LiPo fire? It sure would suck to learn while trying to put one out at an indoor facility, or in your house.

It would be a good idea to click on the "Places" tab up there in the RC Groups menu, find a flying field, and hook up with an instructor. RC isn't free flight - there's a lot to learn and mistakes can be painful!
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Old May 29, 2015, 03:56 PM
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I have a SIG Demoiselle and love it; however, it is not an airplane for beginners! The SIG Demoiselle is fragile to the extent that one must be careful in just picking it up since careless handling will (not could) damage it. It would not hold up well being used as a "penguin" (non-flying WWI aircraft trainer). It is a very docile flyer until it comes to landing ... if you chop the power, it will drop out of the sky before you can say "shot". Take the advice of the previous posters and use a more easily constructed and repaired airframe to acquire your flying skills. You'll enjoy the experience much more.

Cheers and Good Luck,
Grog
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Old May 29, 2015, 04:25 PM
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Jack - and everybody

Thanks for the good advice. I've ordered the recommended "FLY-SKY" Transmitter/ Receiver and Charger, and will set aside the Hubsan components to play with separately. I've gone for a NiMh battery, charger, etc - want to stay away from LiPo's until I understand them better. No local help to call on, and I realize the fragility of the Demoiselle, so will instead rig up a non-flying dummy 2-wheel taxi "stick" with tailskid and rudder / elevator panels to experiment with .

Can anyone recommend a specific "foamy" kit for the next stage, or are these all built up from plans and materials stock?

Many thanks to all.

Doug / "Floodgate"
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Old May 29, 2015, 06:16 PM
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R/C Simulator for MAC's

It occurs to me that it might be smart to start with a computer simulator system; but those which I can find on-line seem to be oriented towards PC's with Windows OS's. I have an iMac G5. Any recommendations? The IKARUS "Aerofly" is available several places, but sounds petty dubious as applied to my Mac.

Doug / "floodgate"
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Last edited by floodgate; May 29, 2015 at 07:35 PM.
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Old May 29, 2015, 09:16 PM
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Since you mention "taxi stick" it reminds me that Heads Up RC is selling Slow Sticks for $25.00. That could make a good taxi stick and a fair trainer too.
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