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Old Apr 02, 2013, 04:03 PM
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Lockheed F-104 Starfighter in Tetris Bukvorez style construction

Lockheed F-104 Starfighter, also known as the Widowmaker is one of the best looking military jets. Very few kit choices available and they are generally heavy requiring very high performance EDF for power.
I am trying to convince the Russian Bukvorez model manufacturer to produce a foam Tetris F104 for sale. All we need is 10 interested in building one and they would consider producing it. My preference would be a kit in the 2.1 to 2.38M length to be powered with a moderately high powered 90mm fan (8-10S 90mm). Essential to keep weight down with the 104's small wing so I would plan no fiberglass but cover with vinyl. Perhaps chrome, to simulate the polished alloy finish that so many had.

If you think you would like to build one please post your desire on the last page of the link posted.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1520445

Here is an Philip Avonds (by H. Van Dongen) model that is 2.38m (94") long with 1.11m (44") span including tanks to get some idea of the size for reference.

Also a picture of the XK104 prototype and test pilot Chuck Yeager
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Old Apr 02, 2013, 08:53 PM
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Philadelphia, PA
Joined Oct 2004
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A 90mm fan on 8-10S is to small for an F104 in the Avonds size.

You may be on the right track if you follow this great thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1454523
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Old Apr 02, 2013, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
Lockheed F-104 Starfighter, also known as the Widowmaker is one of the best looking military jets. Very few kit choices available and they are generally heavy requiring very high performance EDF for power.
I am trying to convince the Russian Bukvorez model manufacturer to produce a foam Tetris F104 for sale. All we need is 10 interested in building one and they would consider producing it. My preference would be a kit in the 2.1 to 2.38M length to be powered with a moderately high powered 90mm fan (8-10S 90mm). Essential to keep weight down with the 104's small wing so I would plan no fiberglass but cover with vinyl. Perhaps chrome, to simulate the polished alloy finish that so many had.

If you think you would like to build one please post your desire on the last page of the link posted.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1520445

Here is an Philip Avonds (by H. Van Dongen) model that is 2.38m (94") long with 1.11m (44") span including tanks to get some idea of the size for reference.

Also a picture of the XK104 prototype and test pilot Chuck Yeager
that is a pic of yeager in the NF-104 ...note the space suit he's wearing ...they did zoom flights up to 100,000 ft + with a small rocket motor built into the tail ...only built 2 one crashed and other is on pole here at Edwards out side the test pilot school. i think a 80" one would be better for 8-10s on a 90mm fan.
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Old Apr 02, 2013, 10:57 PM
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Thanks for your input everyone!
Perhaps I'm thinking a 1.1m span would be ideal for 90mm. This brings the length to the Avonds size fuse of 2.3m. As long as the weight can be kept under 5kg a 90mm can do the job.

This is the whole reason I chose the Tetris foam build.

I am aware weight will make our break this build and any chance for decent flying qualities.
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Old Apr 03, 2013, 08:53 PM
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As a comparison point my Avonds on 12S, 127mm dynamax weighed 23lbs rtf.
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 06:39 AM
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Wow! must be a handful to fly at that weight.
Perhaps 2m length is a better starting point....
It's beginning to look like there isn't enough interest .
Thanks again.
Cheers Eric
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 11:36 AM
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I hate to say it, but you might be better off compromising a bit on the scale wing and make it a little bigger to help with flight characteristics. Not talking cartoon large...just 15% or so bigger might make all the difference.

No one wants to build a 90mm plane that is going to be a handful to fly.
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 12:11 PM
Not Funny......
Mike Warren's Avatar
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104's are not "a handful to fly", they only look like they should be......
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 02:12 PM
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+1 on that, the only people that say the F-104 needs a bigger wing are the ones that have not flown one.

Ralph

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104's are not "a handful to fly", they only look like they should be......
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 04:53 PM
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This is what I did on my 1/10 104 if scale is an issue. The only issue is the wing. Scale air foil and size.

Go as close to 100% scale as possible, then adjust as little as possible to get good handling as an RC model for it's size and weight.

The point is to fly it and get it down safely........................... AND look right. Very right.

Or just build plastic or static models.



Steve
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 04:53 PM
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Österreich, Stmk., Graz-Umgebung
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4stripes View Post
Thanks for your input everyone!
Perhaps I'm thinking a 1.1m span would be ideal for 90mm. This brings the length to the Avonds size fuse of 2.3m. As long as the weight can be kept under 5kg a 90mm can do the job.

This is the whole reason I chose the Tetris foam build.

I am aware weight will make our break this build and any chance for decent flying qualities.
You are on the right way!!

Think about a JePe Mirage with a longer fuselage ... 45cm longer nose and 45cm more at the tail No problem, or?!

George
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 06:20 PM
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thanks George!
Perhaps the best thing to do is give it a try.
If it doesn't work, upgrade power till it does work.
My gut instinct is go bigger and keep all efforts in keeping it light. A lead sled is not fun to fly. Exciting, yes, but fun, no.
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 07:36 PM
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I'll admit, I haven't flown one for that exact reason...looks like a serious handful.

I mean...isn't this called the "widow maker"?

If I get one more plane my wife is gonna kill me...and live true to the "widow maker" moniker.


Quote:
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104's are not "a handful to fly", they only look like they should be......
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 08:46 PM
Not Funny......
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United States, CO, Redstone
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I'll admit, ?.............looks like a serious handful.
I mean...isn't this called the "widow maker"?
.
Yes, the German pilots did give it that nickname........it did have a notably high accident rate in Luftwaffe service.......but that was because of the mission and conditions it was flown in and not because it was inherently "a handful".
Spain, Norway, Netherlands, Belgium, Italy, Jordan, Japan, Taiwan, and more flew them too and it was no more known as a pilot killer than any other fighter at the time.

The plane really makes a very nice flying model; difficult only because of seeing its tiny shape in flight.
Is it a sunny afternoon thermal glider? No. Is it a 3D "Extra" or .40 sized trainer? No.
Even heavy, when set up right, the 104 is a stable, smooth, joy to fly with no more bad habits than any other jet.

........your wife may not be so easy to handle
-Mike
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Old Apr 04, 2013, 10:05 PM
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Mine flew under almost the worst edf configuration I could put into an air frame and it flew.

Just need air speed. And it a model, I'm not in it.



Steve
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