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Old May 23, 2013, 07:56 AM
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ChuckTseeker's Avatar
Adelaide Plains Australia
Joined Dec 2007
3,414 Posts
New Product
E-Flite Apprentice S 15e RTF With SAFE Technology....

yet another good looking plane for the beginner from E-flite, a new version of the Apprentice with new SAFE technology

cheers chuck

SAFE Technology explained

http://www.flysaferc.com/

Apprentice S 15e RTF

Overview

The E-flite® Apprentice® S 15e RTF airplane is the most intelligent RC airplane ever offered by Horizon Hobby. At its heart is groundbreaking SAFE™ (Sensor Assisted Flight Envelope) technology that makes RC flight incredibly easy, even for the least experienced user. Its combination of spatial awareness provides flight envelope protection which adds a degree of security never before available, while its smooth flight capability battles windy conditions so that all you feel is control that’s crisp and responsive. Multiple levels of flight envelope protection are provided that can be reduced or removed as your skills progress, yet the “panic” feature is always there to instantly return the model to level flight if you ever lose orientation.

Requiring just minutes to assemble, you’ll appreciate how its quiet brushless power system delivers outstanding performance with long, enjoyable flights. Plus it’s built to last from lightweight Z-Foam™ material that’s tough enough to handle everyday flying punishment without getting bent out of shape. After you’ve mastered the basics of flight, the Apprentice S is capable of performing a complement of aerobatic maneuvers such as loops, rolls, and even inverted flight. You can also turn the Apprentice S into a great floatplane by simply adding the specially designed E-flite Apprentice S Floats (EFLA550)—sold separately.


Product Specifications

Wingspan: 59.0 in (1500mm)
Overall Length: 42.5 in (1080mm)
Wing Area: 515 sq. in. (33.2 sq. dm.)
Flying Weight: 49.0 oz (1390 g)
Motor Size: 15-size brushless outrunner
Radio: Spektrum DX5e transmitter (included)
CG (center of gravity): 3-1/8 in (79.0mm) back from the leading edge of wing
Prop Size: 11 x 8
Speed Control : 30-amp brushless (installed)
Recommended Battery: 11.1V 3S 3200mAh LiPo (included)
Flaps: No
Retracts: No
Control Throw (Ailerons): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Elevator): Low: 0.71 in (18mm); High: 0.91 in (23mm)
Control Throw (Rudder): Low: 1.10 in (28mm); High: 1.35 in (35mm)
Charger: 2–3S LiPo balancing charger, 0.5–3.0A (included)
Minimum Age Recommendation: 14 years
Experience Level: Beginner
Recommended Environment: Outdoor
Assembly Time: Less than 1 Hour
Is Assembly Required: Yes

Nothing! Everything you need to get flying is included in the box.





















E-Flite Apprentice S 15e So You Want To Learn To Fly (9 min 32 sec)


E-Flite Apprentice S 15e So You Want To Learn To Fly? The Maiden (12 min 26 sec)
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Last edited by ChuckTseeker; Apr 19, 2014 at 07:57 PM.
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Old May 23, 2013, 08:47 AM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,179 Posts
SAFE ?

Nature will only get it's own back.

Make something 'fool-proof', and nature will just produce better fools.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:03 AM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Mar 2009
4,171 Posts
Like it or not, this is a trend to watch for the future. It makes sense for a plane to be able to take some care of itself for the beginner. After all, that's how radio control starter, with free flight airplanes that could fly themselves and the radio was much more radio assist than radio control.

Today people think the old free flight planes look dorky and the model companies want to market cool enough planes that people will actually buy them. The Super Cub with its "helper" that always crashes the plane was first, followed by much better alternatives like the Stratos, Glasair Sportsman and now the new Apprentice.

Horizon has recognized opportunity here. These planes, Stratos, Glasair Sportsman and now Apprentice S really can fly themselves much like the old free flight planes used to do. They will let the new pilot learn by flying, not by crashing and allow them to ratchet down the assist as they gain abilities.

Claiming that these new technologies are lousy because they don't allow evolution to eliminate the unworthy is just a cheap shot for the purpose of provocation. Horizon Hobby has identified a problem: many or most new fliers beginning without help of any kind and without enough previous knowledge of aviation to know how aircraft controls work.

The old way was to let them die. Evolution must take its course. Horizon realizes that there are solid profits in saving their sorry butts. Do they deserve to fail, miserably, painfully, publicly? Yes. But mercy is more profitable and some people appreciate receiving what they don't deserve.
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Old May 23, 2013, 10:14 AM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Mar 2009
4,171 Posts
Sorry guys, this is the real thing. Watch this entire video and dismiss it. I dare you!
SAFE Tecnhology in Action: E-flite Apprentice S 15e (5 min 21 sec)


With this plane you could start from scratch as an unassisted newbie and all my previous objections to starting with a 4-channel plane have been rendered meaningless. Virtual dihedral is here. Now just toss some cash to Horizon and go to town!

And where are we price-wise? Right back to the original Apprentice price point of $299 RTF. All this extra stuff, plus a redesigned wing for zero more cash. All the attackers may post now.
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Old May 23, 2013, 11:27 AM
Frozen Fingers
United States, VT, Morristown
Joined Nov 2012
213 Posts
This planes wing looks no different than the older version. In fact the whole plane minus the receiver looks the same. Why do you think the wing is redesigned? I still fly my apprentice and love it, I am sure this one will work even better for a beginner.
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Old May 23, 2013, 12:50 PM
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acmjg's Avatar
United States, FL, Cape Coral
Joined Feb 2005
10 Posts
All I have to say is WOW. This technology is awesome. I have had the oppourtunity being on Team Horizon to fly this plane and it does what the advertising says.

It can take a person that has had a bad R/C experience and turn them around. I can say this first hand as 25 years ago I took my wife out to fly and attemted to train her on a Ugly stick I had. Well that lasted about 30 seconds before it met its demise. She has not touched a transmitter since then. Well, I took her out and convinced her to try the Apprentice with SAFE on board and she took right to it. It works!!

If you have the chance to try it out- do it. You will be convinced!!

Anthony Greco, Jr.
Team Horizon
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Old May 23, 2013, 01:20 PM
An itch?. Scratch build.
eflightray's Avatar
South Wales U.K.
Joined Mar 2003
13,179 Posts
Forgive this old skeptic, I just wondered where the tree avoidance switch was , and the 'get me back from flying too far down wind switch' ?

Though that last one is feasible with the return to launch GPS system.

Anything that helps beginners is good.
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Old May 23, 2013, 01:44 PM
Registered User
SoCal
Joined Feb 2004
389 Posts
The video really can't show just how good this is! I've got about a dozen flights on one and I think this will revolutionize training in R/C.

The beginner mode with the bank and pitch angle limits keep a model from getting in to a weird attitude. It will be perfect for teaching a student directional control, lining up on a runway and basic take-off and approaches. It will show them the "sight picture" of what a properly controlled model should look like through basic flight maneuvers. In this mode all they have to do to recover the model is let go of the sticks. The model will quickly regain level flight and they can get back to it. Simple!

Then the intermediate mode the roll and pitch angle limits are greater and the model will not recover quickly to level flight when the sticks are released. So now the beginner will have to "fly" the model back to level. This is more like a "normal" model, but with the limiting they still can't get it upside down or diving steeply for the ground. But now they will have to fly the model more. And the "Panic" switch will always get it right back to level if needed.

The experienced mode now makes the model a normal sport plane. You can do any maneuver you like. The model will not self-level unless the Panic switch is hit, but it still retains all the benefits of AS3X stabilization. It's just a cool advanced trainer and sport model.

It's going to take really seeing this in action to truly appreciate what it will do. I think they have hit a home run with this and it's going to make getting flying much easier.

Tony Frackowiak
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:43 PM
"World's Foremost Authority"
Tepid Pilot's Avatar
South Central Texas
Joined Aug 2009
634 Posts
The problem with "self-righting" airplanes is what they really do is teach the novice pilot to let go of the sticks, which is no help at all. It's like making your chauffeur fly the plane while you watch.

TP
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:45 PM
AndyKunz's Avatar
Illinois
Joined Sep 2001
23,480 Posts
You should try it before you knock it. The idea is to get them started successfully, then allow them to progress by removing some of the protections provided by the technology.

Andy
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Old May 23, 2013, 02:55 PM
Frozen Fingers
United States, VT, Morristown
Joined Nov 2012
213 Posts
I think this plane is going to be great. I guess I wonder why from a business perspective Horizon would develop the Glasair at all. Maybe someone from Horizon could tell us what the differences between the two really are and the difference between Safe and VI. Are we going to be able to buy the receiver separately at some point?
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Old May 23, 2013, 03:08 PM
"World's Foremost Authority"
Tepid Pilot's Avatar
South Central Texas
Joined Aug 2009
634 Posts
That won't be necessary, thank you. I already can fly competently.

I understand the concept. It's like having an instructor on a buddy box, but no instructor, no buddy box. I have no objection to it. I just think it probably interferes with the learning experience. Like a keyboard where the keys light up to show you what to play.

TP
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Old May 23, 2013, 04:03 PM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Mar 2009
4,171 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by strokeracevt View Post
I think this plane is going to be great. I guess I wonder why from a business perspective Horizon would develop the Glasair at all. Maybe someone from Horizon could tell us what the differences between the two really are and the difference between Safe and VI. Are we going to be able to buy the receiver separately at some point?
Simply said, the marketing game is to suck ALL the oxygen out of the air, smothering any metoos and wannabes. Horizon already knows that Hobby King makes great hay out of popping out clones, like they did for the Easy Star, and lots of people think the clone is good enough.

Horizon has simply taken over the newbie plane market and sucked all the oxygen out of the air. This is high class engineering and elegant software design in both the Apprentice and Glasair Sportsman. They won't be knocked off by a look-alike because that kind of quality takes expertise and imagination.

As to the wing, doesn't this shot of the wing show a modification to eliminate stalling of the outer portions of the wing before the center? Darn it! Pics not loading from the eFlite website. Okay there is a longer chord to the wing from the inside of the decal out to the end of the wing to cause the inside to stall first. There's actually a step to the leading edge. Isn't that new?

Question: I have a DSM2 DX5e transmitter. Will it control SAFE functions of the Apprentice S?
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Old May 23, 2013, 04:07 PM
buyer of the farm
United States, FL, DeLand
Joined Mar 2009
4,171 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tepid Pilot View Post
The problem with "self-righting" airplanes is what they really do is teach the novice pilot to let go of the sticks, which is no help at all. It's like making your chauffeur fly the plane while you watch.

TP
Holy cow! That is utterly wrong on so many levels. So dihedral teaches novices to fly wrong? Dihedral is no help at all in learning to fly? That is so false I don't even know how to begin. I really don't have to. Everyone already knows that.

What you have here is a plane that in beginner mode will fly like a Super Cub or Slow Stick. EXCEPT that it will restrict climb and dive angles, along with bank angles to certain limits. Then progressively you move to intermediate and advanced mode. In advanced mode this is a fully aerobatic plane. Did you SEE the maneuvers they performed with this primary trainer? This is exciting stuff! Even without panic mode it's exciting. One plane. A whole learning progression without having to learn new airframes all the time. All you have to learn is the next thing.

Then add the panic switch. Did you see the spin from altitude? Did you see how close to the ground he threw the switch? Did you see a plane studying hard to be a crater pull out perfectly, not stalling, not tearing a wing off or overstressing the airframe to fly perfectly level at slow speed immediately out of the vertical spin? You gotta be a dead man not to get excited about that.

This plane killed all my arguments against starting with a 4-channel plane. This plane put the clincher on all my arguments that a simulator is not the best way to learn how to fly. It and the Glasair are total game changers in the RC world and I'm excited to see it. And these are not planes from some unknown Chinese company. They're from a long established, solid company with a record of ridiculously over the top customer service. We can trust this plane is well-tested and ready. Every club should be buying a couple for newbie training.
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Old May 23, 2013, 04:28 PM
"World's Foremost Authority"
Tepid Pilot's Avatar
South Central Texas
Joined Aug 2009
634 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockin Robbins View Post
...dihedral teaches novices to fly wrong? Dihedral is no help at all in learning to fly?
Kind of extremely stated, but that is mostly correct. Dihedral has its place, but a self-righting airplane to me defeats the purpose of actual flight education. Have a nice day.

TP
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