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Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:20 PM
Sink Stinks
Silent-AV8R's Avatar
Orange County, CA
Joined Aug 2004
4,310 Posts
Ask any full size glider pilot about this and the answer you will get is to keep the yaw string centered. In a tight thermal turn that almost always requires "in" rudder and "top" aileron. I'm no aeronautical engineer (or any kind of engineer for that matter) but I do know that a coordinated turn is the minimum drag turn. Wing drag and fuse drag are not terms I've ever heard.

Fly a full size and watch the vario while playing with the yaw string. As soon as that string gets a little off center the vario shows you going down. The farther it gets off center the faster you are going to come down.

Maybe our toy airplanes fly differently, after all, the models seem to know when they are in a downwind turn
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 04:58 PM
Registered User
bOjO's Avatar
Santa Barbara - California
Joined Aug 2004
238 Posts
Hi Target, I totally understand no problem of course.

I was just curious if there was new development in the way the very Top pilots like Mike tune their planes.

Myself, I followed what Kyle P., Mike, David K. etc.. taught me during the F3B practice/comp in Cal Valley. Those guys are the best, they have more experience and results than I will ever have so if this works for them there must be a reason... I was able to adapt my settings I got from F3F that were already not that bad (thanks to you Target, Kyle, Brandon...) and progress a lot. During my time flying with you guys you were all of incredible help.

...and by the way, sorry to be out of subject here, but I must say that when I was flying F3F with the SCSR and F3B group, all you guys were awesome, you were all super friendly always ready to help and share your knowledge with new pilots, patient and helpful. In the past I practiced a lot of sports and activities in clubs and I never received a better and warmer welcome than with all of you guys. So for you new pilots, if you want to progress more than you will ever think of, go fly with those guys if you can you will have the best time !

Joel

Quote:
Originally Posted by target View Post
Hi, Joel-

I hope you are doing well.

The fact that Mike wants me to PM him means that he'd rather not just post it here, and having me post my interpretation of what he's trying to share with me can only be worse, not better.
If I do a PM chain with him, I CAN include you also, and I doubt that he will have any problem with that.

R,
Target
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Old Jan 11, 2013, 02:17 PM
Detail Freak
target's Avatar
Harbor City, CA
Joined Oct 2003
21,585 Posts
That is a rather incriminating photo, Hugh.....
USUALLY, I'm not a lazy pilot (can afford to be at contest tasks!).
Pretty funny posing that picture though!

R,
Target
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 08:53 PM
KC6ZZS
Ben Clerx's Avatar
Newport Beach, CA USA
Joined Apr 2008
245 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silent-AV8R View Post
Ask any full size glider pilot about this and the answer you will get is to keep the yaw string centered. In a tight thermal turn that almost always requires "in" rudder and "top" aileron. I'm no aeronautical engineer (or any kind of engineer for that matter) but I do know that a coordinated turn is the minimum drag turn. Wing drag and fuse drag are not terms I've ever heard.

Fly a full size and watch the vario while playing with the yaw string. As soon as that string gets a little off center the vario shows you going down. The farther it gets off center the faster you are going to come down.

Maybe our toy airplanes fly differently, after all, the models seem to know when they are in a downwind turn

Keep in mind that the yaw string (on the canopy near the nose) is well forward of the wing. What appears as a slight slip on the yaw string may well be perpendicular airflow at the wings. That being said, it's true that a slight slip, with the need for less "top" aileron is better than skidding around a turn (higher drag).

I love it when the competition thinks they can make a "flat turn" (using rudder and keeping the wings level with ailerons) in weak conditions to minimize their sink rate. The Europeans used to do that and I highly encourage them (and all my competitors) to continue that practice.

Come with me on a full scale sailplane ride and I'll quickly cure you of all those glider myths (flat turns, downwind turns, etc.). Heck, I can give the same demos in an Extra 300, which is much more fun (at least for me). Some of you already have, and I apologize if you needed more than one "bag"
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Old Jan 31, 2013, 09:31 PM
in the air
in the air
Joined Aug 2006
123 Posts
NO bag for me BC!!!! still one of the best days of my life! and my first time flying.
again thanks for letting me into your world!
MB3
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