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Old Oct 12, 2012, 09:14 PM
Mosquito 6
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Originally Posted by mrforsyth View Post
Right you are Roger. There's no doubt that having the new meters lowers operational costs for the utility provider (no meter reader necessary) and allows them to have finer control over distribution.

Whether it allows them to stick their hands deeper into our pockets remains to be seen. It did help me determine that having an EV at my residence would put me in the top usage tier, to the tune of ~$.032 / kWh, which is 3-4 times greater than most EV calculators use.

Mark
It's not just your pockets they may stick their hands into Mark .. smart meters are part of Smart Grids .. http://www.smartgridnews.com/artman/...se_Appliances/ .. like turn down your AC to keep your freezer on .. that kinda thing .. rather than rolling blackouts or brownouts. I advocate not building new fossil fueled power plants, but you guys that are hooked up .. gotta stay on top of this stuff ehh. 60 cents per kilowatt hour!! Geese Louise guys, now even utilities are regressive.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 09:57 AM
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I see that A123 filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection yesterday.

Dan
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 10:02 AM
jrb
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Another Obama bet : Electric Car Battery Maker A123 Systems Files Bankruptcy ; http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-1...tml?cmpid=yhoo
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:00 AM
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Another one bites the dust.
Now they are shovel ready.
Solar and electric companies aren't doing very well.
Is it that the technology isn't quite ready?
Or is it that the government isn't subsidizing it enough?
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
Another one bites the dust.
Now they are shovel ready.
That gave me a really good laugh

Harry

PS - but really not funny when you think of it..
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by TheWoodCrafter View Post
Is it that the technology isn't quite ready?
Technology is ready... other parts of the world are using wind/solar electric cars, etc. I just don't think WE are ready.....
From what I read the Ford Fusion hybrid and gas only are the same selling price. I see WAY more non-hybrids on the road. When we got our hybrid (as I wrote earlier in the thread, it cost less $ than the 6 cylinder) , a friend of ours who is a Mr. Good Wrench wouldn't even get in the car, let alone take it for a drive. No "sissy" electric cars for him....

And granted this was a few years back, but when we were looking for a Hybrid, the GM dealer told us the Camery wasn't a "real" hybrid as it only went 43MPH on electric only... and this as he was trying to sell us their "hybrid" which was nothing more than a system that shut the gas engine off at lights... no electric motor at all. But to him it was a "real" hybrid. Not sure if it was ignorance, or just a sales tactic as their "hybrid" was a couple of grand more than the non, non-hybrid, and a couple of grand more than the Camery Hybrid.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rcav8r2 View Post
Technology is ready... other parts of the world are using wind/solar electric cars, etc. I just don't think WE are ready.....
From what I read the Ford Fusion hybrid and gas only are the same selling price. I see WAY more non-hybrids on the road. When we got our hybrid (as I wrote earlier in the thread, it cost less $ than the 6 cylinder) , a friend of ours who is a Mr. Good Wrench wouldn't even get in the car, let alone take it for a drive. No "sissy" electric cars for him....
I agree. The human factor is the biggest hurdle we face in any major technology change.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by rcav8r2 View Post
Technology is ready... other parts of the world are using wind/solar electric cars, etc. I just don't think WE are ready.....
From what I read the Ford Fusion hybrid and gas only are the same selling price. I see WAY more non-hybrids on the road. When we got our hybrid (as I wrote earlier in the thread, it cost less $ than the 6 cylinder) , a friend of ours who is a Mr. Good Wrench wouldn't even get in the car, let alone take it for a drive. No "sissy" electric cars for him....
According to Ford, the MSRP on the Fusion S is $21,700.00 while the price on the SE hybrid is $27,495.00, although in all fairness, it's not quite the same model car. The SE non hybrid is $23,495.00 so the difference in price on the same model is $4,000.00, although you could get a Fusion for almost $6,000.00 less than the price of the hybrid. Still not that much more for the hybrid. In my situation the hybrid would save me about $72.00/month in gas while it would cost me $95.00/month more in lease payments if leased. For someone just trying to save money, it would not pay off, at least at today's gas prices.

Part of the reason other parts of the world are ready for electric vehicles, and hybrids while we are not is that many of them are paying MUCH more for gas than we are.

As I continue to crunch numbers, it turns out that my Nissan Leaf is not saving me any money after all, even with all the rebates. Without all the rebates it would be a HUGE loser compared to a similar gas car.


Dan
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 12:06 PM
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There are so many factors involved a one size fits all cost comparison is difficult or impossible at best.

I don't see many comparisons including maintenance, but I recently spent almost $1k to have the timing belt replaced on my ICE vehicle with 105k miles on it. They replaced the water pump as well.

A large factor is the cost of gas and no one knows how the price of gas will change next week, next month, or next year.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohmic View Post
There are so many factors involved a one size fits all cost comparison is difficult or impossible at best.

I don't see many comparisons including maintenance, but I recently spent almost $1k to have the timing belt replaced on my ICE vehicle with 105k miles on it. They replaced the water pump as well.

A large factor is the cost of gas and no one knows how the price of gas will change next week, next month, or next year.
I'm comparing the projected monthly cost of the Leaf compared to the actual costs of my PT Cruiser for the last 5 years, including all maintenance costs. I too just had to change the timing belt, service transmission, change cam shaft sensor, change motor mounts, etc on the PT. If I compared the Leaf to the cost of leasing a similar gas car, the numbers might be a bit different.

True dat that we don't know what's going to happen to the price of gas, although we can be pretty sure that the overall trend will be up.

Dan
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:09 PM
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I'm comparing the projected monthly cost of the Leaf compared to the actual costs of my PT Cruiser for the last 5 years, including all maintenance costs. I too just had to change the timing belt, service transmission, change cam shaft sensor, change motor mounts, etc on the PT. If I compared the Leaf to the cost of leasing a similar gas car, the numbers might be a bit different.

True dat that we don't know what's going to happen to the price of gas, although we can be pretty sure that the overall trend will be up.

Dan
I think the comparison is easier in your case since you're leasing and the the lease will be over by the time you need any major repair/maintenance work. In my case I tend to keep my vehicles for a minimum of 10 years. Also, due to my work, I can end up driving a lot for a few miles in a year.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan Baldwin View Post
According to Ford, the MSRP on the Fusion S is $21,700.00 while the price on the SE hybrid is $27,495.00, although in all fairness, it's not quite the same model car.
Dan
Hummmm. I'm just going by the TV/radio ads around these parts. They seem to come in clumps, they advertise them as "your choice"... I'm sure part of it is marketing hype to get ya in the door, and part is different models/trim of the same car.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ohmic View Post
I think the comparison is easier in your case since you're leasing and the the lease will be over by the time you need any major repair/maintenance work. In my case I tend to keep my vehicles for a minimum of 10 years. Also, due to my work, I can end up driving a lot for a few miles in a year.
I tend to keep vehicles for 10 years too, but the PT seems to be pretty much worn out after 110k miles.

Dan
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rcav8r2 View Post
Technology is ready... other parts of the world are using wind/solar electric cars, etc. I just don't think WE are ready.....
I say the technology is not ready because of the limitations involved.

Whether it is solar power, wind power or electric vehicles, the limitations are still there and they are big.
They will work in some areas or instances but not all. Where ICE does work always.
One of the biggest obstacles for cars is the limited distance and recharge time.

The shear size of our country will limit wide spread use of electrics cars for decades.
Infrastructure will take so long to install that by the time it is in place the battery technology could have changed.
Similar to NiCad to LiPo.

To be an electric car owners you have to be willing to put up with the limitations and I don't see the majority of people doing that.
If it can't provide the same level of use at a lower cost, electric cars will not be widely adopted.
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Old Oct 16, 2012, 04:19 PM
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Every technology has limitations, including our own current technology. Now one is saying new technology is applicable everywhere and is a one size fits all technology. No one is saying electric cars will be in the majority anytime soon. They may make sense for some, but not for others.

The bottom line is that large scale change occurs when a lot of people change a little.
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