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Old Dec 29, 2014, 03:07 PM
It's never done that before...
Rclover23549's Avatar
United States, NC, Raleigh
Joined Aug 2012
153 Posts
Discussion
Entry to 3d

After practicing on a simulator for quite some time I think I am ready to buy my first 3D airplane. My criteria are as follows-
1) Hovers easily
2) fixed easily
3) can fly scale aerobatics too
4) wont break the bank

As of right now I have it narrowed down to 3 choices. The AS3Xtra, The EFlite Edge 540 and the Parkzone visionaire.
The AS3Xtra is nice, and has a lot of bells and whistles to help fly in hover and knife edge and a few other things as well. It is light, and looks pretty easily fixable. However, I do not like the profile look, and because it is so light my flying areas are limited. The Xtra it the cheapest of the three.
The Edge 540 is my favorite of the 3. It is modestly priced, has a receiver, but no battery. I do not need a battery and it does not have a charger which I also do not need. I Have a DX-6 so model space and setting up rates is not a problem. I like its looks and it will also do scale aerobatics as well. However it is a larger and faster airplane so indoor flying in most venues is probably not an option.
The visionaire seems like a good model but is very expensive. The price is so high because there is a charger and a battery included. I do not need either of these. it seems docile but is also a dedicated 3D airplane, and I would like to be able to do scale aerobatics also.
I have attached videos for all three models if you are unfamiliar. leas let e know what you all think I should chose. thank you very much.

the Edge 540-
Edge 540QQ 280 BNF Basic by E-flite (2 min 15 sec)


The AS3Xtra-
UMX AS3Xtra BNF Basic by E-flite (2 min 57 sec)


the Visionaire-
VisionAire™ BNF with AS3X Technology by ParkZone® (5 min 27 sec)
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 04:47 PM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
1,675 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rclover23549 View Post
...I do not like the profile look...The Xtra is the cheapest of the three...
Come to terms with the profile look. Deal with it, for now at least. Get the Xtra because it's the cheapest. Later on, you'll be glad to have every available dime you can scrounge up to spend on these damned things...
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 05:52 PM
Can't fly 3D for toffee ...
United Kingdom, Taunton
Joined Dec 2012
1,445 Posts
Profile is brilliant for practicing but the Xtra is so small and light that you will be restricted in where you fly.

I have a Visionaire and it is very good but I still worry about hitting the ground with it so fly higher than I'd like.

My favourite 3D learning tools are all from Twisted Hobbys - almost unbreakable EPP profile aircraft. All have huge followings and dedicated threads here on RCG. Most threads start with a detailed build log and video to help you on your way.

I have a 24" MXS-C Mini, a 32" Crack Yak, a 35" Crack Turbo Beaver and a 39" Sbach. This last one is my favourite because it flies so beautifully. It only needs 850-1000mAh 3S lipos. It's an old design and needs some care when building so I'd recommend the 39" Edge 540 which is pretty much the same thing but easy to build. I fly it at the park and the flying club. The 32/35" models I tend to use at the park and the Mini is for any bit of spare space.

You'll find most Twisted Hobbys owners have more than one airframe .... usually loads .... that must say something!

Here's a link to the aircraft I am suggesting but have fun looking through all their site

http://www.twistedhobbys.com/RCF-39-...dge-540-HR.htm
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 06:55 PM
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Joined Jun 2014
321 Posts
3D and aerobatics hey?
You need something with a longish moment arm for aerobatics.
One which would suit a 3D/aerobatics beginner is:-
http://www.hobbyking.co.uk/hobbyking...00mm_ARF_.html
HobbyKing Fury 3D Flight Tests by Tony Harlem (8 min 49 sec)
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 08:15 PM
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Challenger 413's Avatar
Dickinson, Tx.
Joined Sep 2004
5,404 Posts
I agree with the other posts on buying a EPP profile, it fits 3 of your requirements. Not sure why you want scale looks while you are learning to fly 3D, because after a few crashes the model will not look scale anymore. Also, the 3D plane will never fly as easy as the simulator model.

Challenger413
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 09:37 PM
Hitec RCD CSR
Xpress..'s Avatar
United States, CA, Alpine
Joined Oct 2007
21,314 Posts
EPP for sure, they're always bouncing off the ground. Depron would be a decent 2nd option but you have to remember that you will be crashing when learning 3D. Takes a lot of patience to figure out how to keep the airplane flying on the prop rather than on the wing.

Keep in mind the 3D aircraft that are included with most simulators really just suck and fly almost nothing like their real life counterparts do.
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 10:07 PM
Altitude is my friend...
Depronicus's Avatar
Southern California
Joined May 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
EPP for sure, they're always bouncing off the ground. Depron would be a decent 2nd option...
Depron sucks. Take my word for it. It must be heavily reinforced with clear packaging tape to be at all usable. Un-reinforced, it cracks if you look at it too hard.

A new flyer's first five planes should be EPP.
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Old Dec 29, 2014, 10:46 PM
SoCal fair weather flyer
Bloosee's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2012
3,291 Posts
The only one in your list that will allow you to learn 3D is the Visionaire. The AS3xtra will no teach you anything worthwhile, it's just too light and not realistic, but it is fun though. As others have mentioned, some sort of EPP profile plane. I learned most of my early 3D flying with a Techone SU-31 from Nitroplanes. That was 4 years ago but it got me started.
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 08:54 AM
Hitec RCD CSR
Xpress..'s Avatar
United States, CA, Alpine
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depronicus View Post
Depron sucks. Take my word for it. It must be heavily reinforced with clear packaging tape to be at all usable. Un-reinforced, it cracks if you look at it too hard.
You're talking to a guy who specializes in Depron airplanes, and sorry, but I fully disagree with you.
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 12:34 PM
SoCal fair weather flyer
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Jan 2012
3,291 Posts
Well I think the common consensus these days is Depron does suck. Good material to make good flying planes out of but it's worthless as far as durability. If you don't plan to crash fly Depron all you want, but if you plane on using it to push your skills and learn 3D stay away.

EPP has come along way in the last few years. Even just 2 years ago everyone in my club seemed to fly DW Foamies (a local company), now everyone seems to have EPP planes. Once you discover EPP and it's spongy durability and easy repairablilty you stop flying Depron.
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 01:17 PM
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theKM's Avatar
central PA.
Joined Sep 2004
20,712 Posts
depron is clearly superior right up until you hit something hard... at that point it's the last material you want the plane to be made out of.
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 02:48 PM
Epoxy & CA Investor
DenverJayhawk's Avatar
United States, CO, Denver
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Depronicus View Post
Depron sucks. Take my word for it. It must be heavily reinforced with clear packaging tape to be at all usable. Un-reinforced, it cracks if you look at it too hard.

A new flyer's first five planes should be EPP.
This is too general. Depron far from sucks. If you look at pros flying completion they use depron for a reason. And repairs are not that big of deal. I carry CA and kicker to the field and can repair just about anything in 10 mins.

That's said I agree that a newbie just learning should start wth EPP
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 03:04 PM
222 km/hr Parkjet flyer
solentlife's Avatar
Latvia, Ventspils pilsēta, Ventspils
Joined Jan 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xpress.. View Post
You're talking to a guy who specializes in Depron airplanes, and sorry, but I fully disagree with you.
I have to agree with you ...

I bought an EPP profile 3D Zlin 50LS ... fitted firewall exactly as specified ... fitted specified prop / motor ...

When I tested the set-up - motor ripped that firewall straight out ...

I refitted with extra bracing - again the EPP just couldn't take it.

I ended up having to add lite-ply plates to the nose section to keep the motor in place. I still have to find a decent way to stiffen the fuselage longitudinally - it flaps about like a drunken bird !

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/show...hlight=ripping

Next one I will build in Depron .. I've had far higher power motors survive without such beefing up with Depron.

The other matter of course is that EPP is a pig to find the right glue and tape to stick to it ...

I have no problem repairing depron at all.

I might not be a 3D flyer - but EPP sucks as far as I see ...

Nigel
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 04:06 PM
Can't fly 3D for toffee ...
United Kingdom, Taunton
Joined Dec 2012
1,445 Posts
Maybe you didn't have a good EPP model, Nigel. No motor mounts have ripped off my Twisted Hobby's aircraft. For glue I use UHU Por and in the States they use Welders. Once you've glued EPP with these it will never part at the joint. Motor mounts can be reinforced by gluing on a little Blenderm on all 4 legs. As far as bendy, a good EPP model has trusses/braces/spars as necessary and should fly perfectly accurately.

I only have one depron aircraft ( a sweet little bipe that uses the guts from a Parkzone 1S UMX) so have far too little experience of it to know how strong or otherwise it is but I know I'd go EPP for a 3D trainer. I'd also go to a decent size for learning which is why I suggested a 39" model.
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Old Dec 30, 2014, 04:33 PM
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Late99's Avatar
Finland
Joined Aug 2013
214 Posts
As you probably have noticed there's just as many choices as there are answers. I was in the same situation as you are less than a year ago and my advice is following:

- Get good quality EPP plane, Twisted Hobby's planes are really good and made from quality materials. They won't rip their motors off easily. Just see the videos... This plane would serve as primary practice plane and will be the one to take all the crashes. Easy to fly in parks & other places where no smooth ground for landing wheeled plane is available.

- After some time get a full fuse plane. VisionAire probably would be really good next step. It has really thick wing profile that makes it fly somewhat slower. Kind of my second hand Eflite Eratix 3D. Of course also several other options exist. This plane would be for more precise and careful practice (= do all the daring aerobatics & first time practise with the EPP plane).

- Then as a third plane you can already buy a proper balsa plane with thin wing profile from your favorite brand manufacturer.

IMHO Eflite Edge is just too small and based on some reviews its foam is not very good quality. Breaks easily. For training 3D you want something that is quite floaty and flies in harrier easily. It probably is a nice and fun plane, but still I can't recommend it for practicing 3D.

Other option would be to start building your own planes from Depron or EPP. This way repairing & rebuilding would be easy. For example 3DMON Lil' Ripper is really easy to build and flies well.

In the end I have ended with multiple planes. If one plane is broken & waiting fixing, I've got something else to fly.

It's also not realistic to hope to get everything in a single plane... During summer I fly mostly bigger planes (Eratix & Slick) and only use smaller planes for warming & practicing new maneuvers. But then during winter almost only option to fly is to use park sized planes that belly land.
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Last edited by Late99; Dec 30, 2014 at 04:40 PM.
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