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Old Nov 05, 2012, 12:47 PM
Professional idiot
Hampshire, UK
Joined Jun 2002
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The manual for ver. 2.2 contains conflicting information then. As well as the table which I'm now using it contains the following text above the table.

"The gain factor will change from 0.1 at the minimum signal input, to the value set up under the professional 1 tab page (11 by default). This is then multiplied by the scale factor set up in this section (2 in the example above).
For clarity the following table shows some example gain multiplication factors, based on a preset gain (PID gain), set up on the Professional 1 tab page of 11.00"

I'm quite happy now knowing that with a scaling of 1 I'm playing with a gain of 3.10 to 14.0 but it would help if you removed the above text from the manual.

I saw some better results this last weekends. It was windy: 20mph according to local airport ATIS. Enough that I can fly backwards quite nicely. Higher gains all round this time. Problem I had using 'gyro exact gain' is that I wanted to increase rudder and elevator but not ailerons. Plane handles wind quite well but even very little gain causes it to wobble (not really a flutter). Rudder and elevator are responsive controls whereas ailerons are very sluggish (I only use them to balance out turns a little or cross control them to stop the rudder induced roll).

Dave
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 01:16 PM
Professional idiot
Hampshire, UK
Joined Jun 2002
3,119 Posts
The radio calibration page is only for the four primary controls. It doesn't calibrate any of the control channels. Not a big deal as I will adjust the TX to give 1100us to 1940us. I will then be able to use the table to get exact gain in use figures.

Your manual mentions 1520us being the standard centre and the importance of calibrating if different. Worth noting that 1520us is a Futaba standard and almost every other radio manufacturer adopted the JR standard of 1500us. I'm guessing that the bulk of users will be Spektrum (1500us centre). -100% to 100% is a narrower range as well so -100% on Spektrum will give higher gain than 3.10 and +100% will give less than 14.00

Dave
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Old Nov 05, 2012, 10:16 PM
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Joined Sep 2012
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Hi Dave,
1) Thanks for pointing out the user manual inconsistency, in fact there was a relationship with the gain (nominally 11) but this will be removed in v2.3 so that exact gain is really as it states an exact gain only
2) Did you try out the automatic gain control setting? (Bottom right of Prof1 page).
3) Will check what we can do about exact gain control only for some controls
4) Good point about the control channel ranges. Note that although the Adv1 page allows matching of the primary control surfaces, the other control channels use the same values as for the throttle input. (This is not stated in the manual).

Mark
Note: We found a bug with the exact gain on v2.2 in that the lower limit is limited to 6, this will be fixed in v2.3 and put to 1 as it should be.
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Last edited by IceManPro; Nov 05, 2012 at 11:35 PM.
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 12:46 AM
Professional idiot
Hampshire, UK
Joined Jun 2002
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4. Useful information. I didn't calibrate throttle channel (I have no need for fancy mixing or takeoff mode). I will manually insert 'power' values.

AGC was on. Ailerons are very odd on this plane. Rudder works well; small movements that are taken out quickly give me a nice yaw and some balanced roll. Aileron however needs to be held in a lot; often use full stick deflection. Not going to put too much effort into this. Plane is very stable and gyros aren't that necessary. This plane was used as a UAV test bed with full autopilot but is just sat around now. Ultimately I want to put it in a 2m freestyle model that flies like a paper bag in any wind :-)

Dave
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 01:05 AM
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We will release V2.3 soon. Improvements are:
1) Take off mode kicks in at 30% throttle instead of 70%
2) Bugs regarding gyro on/off fixed
3) Real time exact gain updated
a) Added a tools page command line command to allow feedback as to what the gain is actually at, at any given time.
b) Added a function to switch off on any particular axes by inputting a value of 0
c) Fixed bug that limited gain to 6 (and tied gain to main gain set on prof1 page)
4) Some users (2 known of) on Windows7 64bit machines have problems with s/w upgrading due to the upgrade tool driver not loading into windows properly. This fixed.

Mark
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 01:07 PM
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Sounds good.

Dave
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Joined Aug 2007
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Will someone please describe how well the product works. Does it lock on to a hover attitude or is there drift and roll? How straight is the knife edge? Does the loop finish at the starting point if pilot gives no roll input? I think it is appropriate to compare the performance of this product with the Guardian.
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 01:27 PM
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Fuquay Varina, NC
Joined Dec 2000
719 Posts
First flight report

I've had the ICE MAN for a week or so and finally got a chance to put it in a test plane and go out for a try. The perspective I'm doing this from is that of a beginner without the desire or expertise to go deep into the programability of the software. Most of the magazines readers go from this point initially and then go deeper into it if the interest sparks them.

Let's face it, most guys want to plug and play and hope for the best :-)

I took the plug and play route even though I am not using a Futaba radio. Setup is JR 9503 and Spektrum 6ch full range rx combined with standard analog servos. The plane is a 14 yr old LT-25 (kit built, not ARF) powered with an old MaxCim geared brushless motor and Castle ICE 75 ESC on 6S lipos. Single aileron servo. This plane has so many hundred flights over the last 14 years I quit logging them.

Conditions were 49 degrees and 5 - 15 mph winds variable so I figured the high wing trainer would get knocked around a bit. I set a switch up to turn the gyro on and off.

First trim flight without the gyro on was as usual and although it got knocked around a bit, it's what I was hoping for. I turned on the gyro and could see right away the gains were a bit too high. I landed and adjusted each one down. I repeated the process several times (I secretly wished for a remote gain for each pot set up on my 12ch Multiplex Evo :-))

Having to unscrew the wing each time to adjust was a bit cumbersome, but not that bad with a power driver.

I turned the yaw up too far during one flight and about lost it laughing so hard as the tail waffled back and forth like my left thumb had a twitch. Kinda fun to watch anyway.

In the end, I found the comfortable setting for each pot and could see a marked difference in flight with and without the gyro. So, the end result of my initial tests was quite satisfactory. Without going 10 menus deep into programming, I think anyone can easily set it up do tune out conditions and make for a nice smooth flight.

I'll get deeper into the abilities now that our initial tests are complete and hope to do the same for the Pro once it becomes available. I think there is a lot of potential for this product at this price point.

Greg Gimlick
Model Airplane News
Model Aviation Magazine
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Old Nov 06, 2012, 01:32 PM
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Fuquay Varina, NC
Joined Dec 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaus View Post
Will someone please describe how well the product works. Does it lock on to a hover attitude or is there drift and roll? How straight is the knife edge? Does the loop finish at the starting point if pilot gives no roll input? I think it is appropriate to compare the performance of this product with the Guardian.
I've just begun to use this and am still learning, so I'll let the more experienced get into the very specifics of the device. But, this is not a Guardian and isn't meant to be. It doesn't use heading hold or recovery to right the plane in the event of an emergency. This is a 3-axis gyro and will dampen out sudden movements, etc.

Greg
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Old Nov 07, 2012, 10:05 PM
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V2.3 now released, please see here

Mark

PS we've just started doing some testing on tri-copters, will add this support onto a future release. See here
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 06:38 AM
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Hampshire, UK
Joined Jun 2002
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The firmware update doesn't work with Windows 8 (I couldn't actually buy a PC without it). I will try and borrow a PC this evening with an older OS and try again.

Dave
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 07:01 AM
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United States, NH, Stark
Joined Sep 2011
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I installed the PC Tools Version 2.3 on my Windows 8 computer, but 2.3 will NOT accept .txt files made in Version 2.2.

I spent a long time getting settings just right.
Rather than trying to get all settings the same I'm going back to Version 2.2.
Especially since the firmware update won't work, according to user Wildpalms.

Ted
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpalms View Post
The firmware update doesn't work with Windows 8 (I couldn't actually buy a PC without it). I will try and borrow a PC this evening with an older OS and try again.

Dave
We haven't tested extensively on Windows 8 yet, will do very soon, but since it's a .net application the application should work. Will check out the issue with the firmware loader. More info later on this..
Mark
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Last edited by IceManPro; Nov 08, 2012 at 11:42 PM.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted M View Post
I installed the PC Tools Version 2.3 on my Windows 8 computer, but 2.3 will NOT accept .txt files made in Version 2.2.

I spent a long time getting settings just right.
Rather than trying to get all settings the same I'm going back to Version 2.2.
Especially since the firmware update won't work, according to user Wildpalms.

Ted
If you want to transfer set up information from a previously saved .txt file, you can open up the v2.2 text file with notepad or similar and do the following:

1) Change the version number to 2.30: Version : 2.30
2) If not set already, change the parameter GyroOn to 2: GyroOn : 2

You should then be able to load up the txt file into V2.3. You will then need to re-send the parameters to the BL-3GRC gyro, with it's v2.3 f/w programmed in first. (Issue for all windows platforms, in future we'll try to maintain backwards compatibility)

Mark
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Last edited by IceManPro; Nov 08, 2012 at 11:32 PM.
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Old Nov 08, 2012, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildpalms View Post
The firmware update doesn't work with Windows 8 (I couldn't actually buy a PC without it). I will try and borrow a PC this evening with an older OS and try again.

Dave
We're working on it... please see above comment too.
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