Shop our Airplanes Products Shop our Surface Products
Thread Tools
Old Jul 15, 2015, 07:56 AM
Capt. Windypants is offline
Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Registered User
Canada, ON, St. Catharines
Joined Jan 2013
135 Posts
Discussion
48" Dragon

I just received my laser cut frames, keel pieces and building jig as designed by Colin Johanson. I have it all dry fit assembled on my building board and can't wait to get at it. I have a few chores and house hold duties to finish up before hand but I am excited about this model.

Has any one else built this model. I would like to hear from you and read of youer experiences .

Thanks.

Art
Capt. Windypants is offline Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jul 15, 2015, 03:27 PM
tigman is offline
Find More Posts by tigman
Registered User
palmcoastfl
Joined Aug 2003
224 Posts
Congrats on the 48" Dragon,l would love to put one of these together.

Pictures please

bill
tigman is offline Find More Posts by tigman
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2015, 03:55 PM
RodACarr is offline
Find More Posts by RodACarr
Registered User
Joined Jun 2009
147 Posts
48" Dragon

Arthur Walpole and I have also been trying to extract sail plan information from Colin without much success. In the interim, we've scaled the prototype Dragon rig to a 48" LOA hull and come up with a 54" mainsail luff with a 19.75" foot, and a jib leech of 40" with a 10" foot. We have some information that says there has been a recommendation for a much shorter rig, but based on the 31" Billings Dragon model, and knowing that the 48" hull will carry more ballast, we don't think such a short rig will perform well, let alone look anything like the prototype boat. Anybody got any comments.....or better yet, some data?
RodACarr is offline Find More Posts by RodACarr
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2015, 09:25 PM
Capt. Windypants is offline
Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Registered User
Canada, ON, St. Catharines
Joined Jan 2013
135 Posts
Hello Tigman

The only photos that I might have as of now is of an old guy drooling over a new model. They would be too embarassing to put out in public. I will most definitely put up progress pictures and reports as I work through with building this model. I am a slow and methodical builder, please be patient. I just tonight came in from the garage after gluing down the building jig to the building board that I made for this boat. I am supposed to be stripping the front porch railings ready for new paint.

Thanks for your interest. This is the first ' non kit' for me. It's not quite scratch build but it will challenge me. I can't wait to do more stripping and painting on the front porch railings !

Art
Capt. Windypants is offline Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2015, 09:59 PM
Capt. Windypants is offline
Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Registered User
Canada, ON, St. Catharines
Joined Jan 2013
135 Posts
48" Dragon

Thanks Rod

I am with you on this. I have been perplexed with the thought of putting a ' too short' mast on such a beautiful hull. I don't know yet how much lead shot is required to properly ballast this boat but I can't imagine that the extended keel depth for the RC version would not accomodate a close to scale mast height and sail plan.

Thanks for your input on this. I think the info I have so far is for a 10: 1 scale boat and I think the 48 " Dragon is closer to a 7.3 : 1 scale. I will try to get better info on this.

I am only just starting into the first stages of the building process. Today I reconnected with a canoe maker that supplied me with cedar strips over a decade ago when I rebuilt a cedar/canvass canoe. He is able to mill Western Red Cedar planks for the construction of my hull at a very reasonable cost.

I plan on building the mast and booms of laminations of spruce. If there are other builders with ideas or suggestions on this , please share them with me and others that might be interested.

Art
Capt. Windypants is offline Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 15, 2015, 11:46 PM
Scratchy101 is offline
Find More Posts by Scratchy101
Registered User
Scratchy101's Avatar
Canada, BC, Greater Vancouver Regional District
Joined Dec 2011
640 Posts
Have you checked with Rick Shousha at The Modellerís Workshop
for sail plans from the Billings Boat kit he sells:
http://modellers-workshop.com/billin...ip-kit-bil582/
He might have sail-plan drawings for this 1m kit.

Based on the full size sail plan dimensions found here.

RIG DIMENSIONS KEY
I(IG): 26.30' / 8.02m J: 6.70' / 2.04m
P: 33.00' / 10.06m E: 12.00' / 3.66m
PY: EY:
SPL/TPS: ISP:
SA(Fore.): 88.11 ft2 / 8.18 m2 SA(Main): 198.00 ft2 / 18.39 m2
Total(calc.)SA: 286.11 ft2 / 26.58 m2 DL ratio: 243.42
SA/Disp: 19.05 Est. Forestay Len.: 27.14' / 8.27m

Here are the scaled measurements I came up with:
Code:
Scale=0.1371	Ft	Scale Inches
Hull LOA	29.170	48.005
Main Luff	33.000	54.308
Main foot	12.000	19.748
Jib leech	26.300	43.282
Jib foot	6.700	11.026
Forestay	27.140	44.664
1 foot/12 in.	1.000	1.646
Scale = 1:7.29	0.608	1.000
Scale mast height would be 60" based on a 36.5ft mast
This is based on 30" from deck to boom and 12" from mainsail head to masthead.
That would be my best guestimate.

Art
Scratchy101 is offline Find More Posts by Scratchy101
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2015, 03:51 AM
tuppesw is online now
Find More Posts by tuppesw
wolfgang
tuppesw's Avatar
Germany, NRW, Aachen
Joined Jan 2013
269 Posts
Hi Art,

I'm quite happy with with the standard rig on my Billing Boats Dragon (and a second sail servo).


I found some building logs about 5:1 Dragons on a german forum (search for Drachen). They come with a 1.7m hull and 13 kg displacement.
http://forum.klassik-modellyacht.de/viewforum.php?f=4
tuppesw is online now Find More Posts by tuppesw
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2015, 04:31 AM
soling11 is offline
Find More Posts by soling11
Registered User
Joined Mar 2011
29 Posts
Rig for Dragon

Why not use the rig for the Canterbury J Same length and should weigh about the same
soling11 is offline Find More Posts by soling11
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2015, 08:19 AM
RodACarr is offline
Find More Posts by RodACarr
Registered User
Joined Jun 2009
147 Posts
Dragon 48

Arthur and I are working from the premise that the prototype mast position needs to be retained in the model. So for balance while underway, the sail plan should likely be as close to prototype as possible, though a working jib will be fitted to allow easier running rigging for the jib. Use of the Canterbury sail plan would likely require relocating the mast, which would be somewhat of a research effort.

Thanks for the suggestions that were posted. The only ones we were not aware of were the German ones, and we'll scope those out ASAP.
RodACarr is offline Find More Posts by RodACarr
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 16, 2015, 10:36 AM
Earl Boebert is offline
Find More Posts by Earl Boebert
Registered User
Joined Mar 2007
330 Posts
A trick I used on Yankee III (36 in J boat) was to widen the keel. This allowed space for additional ballast without altering the profile. The difference is almost imperceptible when the boat is on the stand for display. Just a thought.
Earl Boebert is offline Find More Posts by Earl Boebert
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 17, 2015, 03:39 AM
coolmobility is offline
Find More Posts by coolmobility
Registered User
coolmobility's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Paynesville
Joined Sep 2009
333 Posts
When I created the Dragon 48" design for RC sailing, I deepened the keel, cul holes in keelson to allow lead shot as much and as low as possible and made the RC keel version almost bulbed profile to accommodate lead shot low down. I never built one, so I don't know displacement and I'll be very interested to see the results of this build and how the ballast goes. Sail sizes look very interesting and from watching full sized Dragons sail, I hope it will carry that sail plan with the deper keel.

Here is a photo of the frames showing the scale size and deeper RC keelsons as well as thickened keel (original is parallel sided).
coolmobility is offline Find More Posts by coolmobility
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2015, 04:34 PM
Capt. Windypants is offline
Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Registered User
Canada, ON, St. Catharines
Joined Jan 2013
135 Posts
Thanks Fellows

Thanks for doing the math for me Scratchy. I was fooling around with a steel ruler measuring images on my computer screen and calculating conversions. I was pretty close to your figures in most areas but I trust your scientific approach and calculations a lot more. Rod Carr is making the sails for me. They should arrive in the mail later this week.

I will have a look at the Canterbury J for rigging ideas. Thanks Soling 11.

I was actually thinking of doing just what you suggested Earl but I didn't want to go ahead with out consultation with Colin Johanson. I expected that he must have made ample provisions for sufficient ballast when he designed the frame set. Thanks Colin for clarifying that for me. I don't know yet where to get # 9 lead shot or even how much I will need . I thought I might try sourcing it from a Hunting shop where fellows reload their own cartrdges.

When I purchased the frame set I also purchased basswood strips for planking the hull but have since ordered Western Red Cedar strips from a canoe maker that I know. I have been advised by another builder that the cedar might be tricky but I want to give it a try. We will see how it goes. I pick up the cedar this Friday.

At this point I am thinking of lamenating strips of spruce for the mast and booms. I have been told it is sturdy and light weight. Cedar might even work here but I think I will stick with the advice that I have been given.

The frames are all glued up with the stem and keel pieces and the cedar sheer longhorns that I ripped up are glued in place . She is starting to look like a boat.

Cheers.

Art
Capt. Windypants is offline Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2015, 07:35 PM
Capt. Windypants is offline
Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Registered User
Canada, ON, St. Catharines
Joined Jan 2013
135 Posts
Tuppesw
I have seen your Dragon on a video before. Nice boat ! It seems to sail well and gets to quite a good speed. The video of your boat and others that I have seen is part of the inspiration for me to build my own.

What is your reasoning behind using two servos for the sails ? I will soon have to plan the electronics instalation of my own boat. I haven't made decisions yet but I was thinking along the lines of a large sail arm sevos like the Hitec 815. The rudder on the 48" model is rather large , I think it will require a good size servos too. There seems to be ample room in the hull so I don't think I will have to worry too much about the size of things.
Capt. Windypants is offline Find More Posts by Capt. Windypants
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2015, 08:04 PM
Scratchy101 is offline
Find More Posts by Scratchy101
Registered User
Scratchy101's Avatar
Canada, BC, Greater Vancouver Regional District
Joined Dec 2011
640 Posts
Art,
Here's an Excel file you can use to convert from life size to scale (Ft>Inches) tab
& scale to life-size (Inches>Ft) tab.

-=Cheers=-
Art
Scratchy101 is offline Find More Posts by Scratchy101
Reply With Quote
Old Jul 19, 2015, 09:04 PM
hiljoball is offline
Find More Posts by hiljoball
Registered User
hiljoball's Avatar
Canada, BC, Strathcona
Joined Jul 2011
965 Posts
For a boat this size, a single winch should work fine and pull in both sails if you are using a self tacking jib (on a boom). If you want to go to an overlapping head sail, then it is much more complicated, but it has been done.

The 815 arm winch is fast and powerful and would work, but I would suggest using the HS785 drum winch. It has the power, but is slower - and on this boat that would be an advantage for a scale look as the sails come in. I built a Star 45 and installed a 785 and it worked very well.

John
hiljoball is offline Find More Posts by hiljoball
Reply With Quote


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold SALE - 3 Sheets, 1/64" X 48" x 48", ( AA/AA ) Aircraft Grade Birch Plywood SEMP001 Aircraft - General - Miscellaneous (FS/W) 0 Jul 10, 2015 09:43 AM
Sold Dragon Labs OSD V2 (with GPS and current sensor) AND Dragon Link Rx Mike Freas FPV Equipment (FS/W) 1 Aug 27, 2014 05:45 AM
Discussion Wing Dragon vs Wing Dragon 4 drpje2000 Beginner Training Area (Aircraft-Electric) 5 Dec 20, 2007 02:22 AM
Air Lark or Dragon Fly 1/64 or Dragon Fly King sideburn Coaxial Helicopters 7 Jan 11, 2006 11:14 AM
Wind Dragon, Delta Dragon Bob HSG Electric Plane Talk 6 Dec 29, 2004 08:47 PM