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Old Mar 05, 2013, 01:49 PM
Aka: Ralph
Canada, ON, Hamilton
Joined Nov 2012
237 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
.

AJ, is "crow" the same as air brakes? Here in the River the wind is always coming out of the South and I live on the north side of the river. I should have no problem launching into the wind I'm gonna have to bring it back and landed coming down tomorrow have to put it down in about 50 feet of yard. I've never practice landing downwind. You think I can even get this plane on the ground coming downwind?

Angelo sculptor Baker is just gorgeous. Studying your photo of him I projected forward in time to what he will probably look like when he's fully grown. Then I knocked out this 3D sketch. See what you think.

DJAttachment 5589458
I got this quote of another site.

The joy of flaps is not to come in fast and HIT THE BRAKES!.

The joy of flaps is to lower the stall speed of the glider by adding camber to the wing. This way you can come up to your landing spot so slowly that you can just kiss the ground gently so as not to wake up the ants.

Crow, is more of a braking tool but it takes away that slow approach as it kills some of the lift of the wings.
That is why I don't use crow or I only use a very small bit of up aileron. My goal is to approach the landing area slowly and gracefully when I am thermal soaring.

Now, on the slope, where the rotor can be severe and you need speed to keep control of the glider, there crow, and its huge braking force can be very valueable. You come up to the landing area with some speed so the rotor does not toss you around, then you high the brakes and drop it on the spot.

The right tool for the right job is what you want.
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 07:03 PM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
.

AJ,
1. is "crow" the same as air brakes?
Here in the River the wind is always coming out of the South and I live on the north side of the river. I should have no problem launching into the wind I'm gonna have to bring it back and landed coming down tomorrow have to put it down in about 50 feet of yard.
2. I've never practice landing downwind. You think I can even get this plane on the ground coming downwind?

Angelo sculptor Baker is just gorgeous. Studying your photo of him I projected forward in time to what he will probably look like when he's fully grown. Then I knocked out this 3D sketch.
3. See what you think.

DJAttachment 5589458
1. Short answer - Yes. But, read above post. He said it pretty well.
2. Short answer - Yes. But, downwind landings are to be avoided if at all possible.
3. Very cool. (is that a greyhound)?
AJ
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 08:49 PM
AKA, Cheap Chiseler
Sculptor's Avatar
United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
1,173 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
1. Short answer - Yes. But, read above post. He said it pretty well.
2. Short answer - Yes. But, downwind landings are to be avoided if at all possible.
3. Very cool. (is that a greyhound)?
AJ
.

I bought a new Bixler 1.1 and as before I will cut flaps into it, install the Eagle A3 Gyro board because I want fly my little 808 V2 #16 camera on it. This is the plane that I will fly out over the water and then have to land it in my backyard coming downwind. "2. Short answer - Yes. But, downwind landings are to be avoided if at all possible." In this situation it will not be possible.

I'll have to bring in over the water toward me coming downwind. I'll have to have enough power to hold it off the water a couple of feet. When I get to the yard I have to land it. I intend to set up a volleyball net with two nets one on top of the other. If everything goes to hell I'll fly it into the net.

A gentleman just posted a response to my questions about Crow and air brakes and he did a remarkable job in having me understand it, you acknowledged his contribution to my question.

To your question "is it a greyhound", yes Sir it is. And I considered to be the finest greyhound sculpture on earth and nearby planets!

Totally off topic for those who might find this distracting to watch.
Ace DJ Wilkins sculpture of the Greyhound at the University of Indianapolis.wmv (3 min 52 sec)
.

DJ
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Last edited by Sculptor; Mar 05, 2013 at 09:11 PM.
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 10:17 PM
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datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerdan View Post
Now, on the slope, where the rotor can be severe and you need speed to keep control of the glider, there crow, and its huge braking force can be very valueable. You come up to the landing area with some speed so the rotor does not toss you around, then you high the brakes and drop it on the spot.

The right tool for the right job is what you want.
Curious what you mean by "rotor" in this discussion? Thanks for the great info!

Justin
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 10:25 PM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
I think he means this

Quote:
Originally Posted by datura View Post
Curious what you mean by "rotor" in this discussion? Thanks for the great info!

Justin
Read all about it here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_wave
AJ
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Old Mar 05, 2013, 11:21 PM
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datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
Read all about it here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee_wave
AJ
Wow! Check this out: http://perlanproject.org/

As an amateur physicist this stuff really floats my, er, sailplane!
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 01:02 AM
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Italy, Toscana, Orbetello
Joined Mar 2012
328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by datura View Post
I'm reading everywhere that the perfect prop for this motor, on our Bixler 2, is a 6X4e.
Me too, I've bought a D2826-6 2.200Kv and these props:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...propeller.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._6x4_2pc_.html

even if the first one seems to be better.

I'm waiting the delivery in the next days, then I'll be able to write about them.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 02:12 AM
Argue for your limitations
ajbaker's Avatar
Lincoln, CA
Joined Oct 2006
8,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky971 View Post
I'm reading everywhere that the perfect prop for this motor, on our Bixler 2, is a 6X4e.
Me too, I've bought a D2826-6 2.200Kv and these props:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...propeller.html

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._6x4_2pc_.html

even if the first one seems to be better.

I'm waiting the delivery in the next days, then I'll be able to write about them.
The best way to determine the best prop is to run a thrust test on them. The more thrust, the more powerful the prop. Use a ~20lb. scale.
AJ
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 02:26 AM
Registered User
Italy, Toscana, Orbetello
Joined Mar 2012
328 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajbaker View Post
The best way to determine the best prop is to run a thrust test on them. The more thrust, the more powerful the prop. Use a ~20lb. scale.
AJ
You cannot determine the best prop considering just the thrust: You can have big thrust with too high current drain and motor overload and this is not good.
The best is when You have an equlibrated rapport between thrust, current drain, motor temperature and battery duration.
Considering all these parameters, the best choose for this motor (not for me, but for all that it's written around and from tests made) on Bixler 2 seems to be a 6X4.

With a free software as this http://www.ecalc.ch/motorcalc_e.asp?ecalc
it's possible to have an idea of the correct prop for a long list of motors/ESC/battery/ plane weight.

When I'll receive it, before fly, I'll test everything with a tachometer, wattmeter, thermometer and dinamometer to determine if it's a good choose.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 02:41 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Bendigo
Joined Jan 2012
2,125 Posts
DJ I know it's off topic but I cannot let it go by without saying something about "Ace" You have impressive talents.I could swear that at some angles "Ace" looks alive.

Now..Have you ever thought about "sculpting" desktop aircraft..Your eye for detail and scale would be something to see.

John(aged)
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 04:11 AM
what goes up, must come down..
AussieHoppy's Avatar
Joined May 2010
2,869 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
I've never practice landing downwind. You think I can even get this plane on the ground coming downwind?
as AJBaker said, downwind landings should well be avoided.

I would add to that and say downwind landings really should not happen.
A hyperthetical...
If the wind is 20km/hour and your average landing speed is 30kph [with say 20kph stall speed], in this scenerio the plane's airspeed (with tailwind) is only 10kph- no doubt well into a stall and impeding disaster. In this scenerio you need to have an airspeed of at least 40kph to land and this is right on stall speed... and 40kph accross the ground is a fairly hot landing, if you will appreciate

I have had the occassional tail wind landing only because I had to, and I will admit I have been lucky enough to pull it off ok... but I have seen many who have failed.
When I have had to land on tailwind I used a lot of ground to gently bring her down, simply due to the increased speed to keep above stall. You dont want to be in a small area and panic to get it down because a fence is fast approaching... it becomes a choice to either hit the fence or slam it down at speed...
Like anything in life, once you have clocked up enough experience you'll know how to judge a downwind or crosswind, whether to abort or rise to the challenge... but I wouldnt be trying it without experience

Hope that helps, Mr Sculptor
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 04:29 AM
Registered User
Italy, Toscana, Orbetello
Joined Mar 2012
328 Posts
Airspeed must be always the same: if Your plane stall at 20 Km/h, it must have at least 30 Km/h of air speed, for a safe final approach.
Since Your plane is in the air, it's the airspeed that You must consider.
What changes is the ground speed; with 20 Km/h of North wind, You can land in North direction at 10 Km/h of ground speed.
If You have the same wind from South and You still land in North direction, You'll land at 50 Km/h of ground speed, but Your airspeed, at the wheels contact instant, will be the same in both situations: 30 Km/h.
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 09:22 AM
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datura's Avatar
United States, TX, Austin
Joined Dec 2012
319 Posts
DJ: Maybe it's time to revisit the floats idea!

Also, very nice work on the greyhound!
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 10:23 AM
Chris
The Netherlands, NB, Eindhoven
Joined Sep 2010
1,853 Posts
DJ, can't you bring the plane around for the landing?
So that the end of your runway is the beginning of the lake?

You do face the danger of splashing it in the water, but you can put the volleyball net there... and anyway you'll have lots of space (over the lake) to give throttle and pull up for another try... and it's gonna be a slower landing if wind is stronger... instead of the opposite
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Old Mar 06, 2013, 12:08 PM
AKA, Cheap Chiseler
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United States, FL, North Fort Myers
Joined Mar 2012
1,173 Posts
I think I understand what y'all are trying to tell me. It amounts to don't land downwind, so I made this little film in the backyard showing what I'm up against. I used my new 808 #16 keychain camera, then put the film on the desktop but never having uploaded a film before I'm not understanding how to do this. I could put it up on YouTube meant download their maybe but when I try to attach it from right here that doesn't work. It's not that big, it's only about a minute half.

I just tried it again and it didn't work I'll look for some help files.

Can you tell me how to do this. There is a button for selecting individual lines or paragraphs to quote. I've been quoting the whole damn thing when oftentimes I just want quote line and respond to that. And select it but I'm not getting that right either.

DJ
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