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Old Mar 06, 2012, 05:03 AM
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Bradford West Yorkshire, UK
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"All that glisters is not gold"

Likewise "All that shines silvery is not silver solder" (Or SODDER as those on the LHSOTP call it).

Basic rule, You can't melt "Silver Solder" with an Electric Iron, you need a blowtorch at least.

You can't make a "Silver Solder" joint with a blowtorch unless the base materials you're trying to "Solder" are glowing at RED heat.

Anything less is Soft Soldering. If you Silver Solder an undercarriage, you've annealed the wire.

Regards Ian.
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Old Mar 06, 2012, 09:41 AM
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San Diego, California
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"you've annealed the wire."

Unless you quench it in oil immediately after heating.

Les
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 01:14 AM
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Bradford West Yorkshire, UK
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But then you need to temper it?

Bit of a problem on a localised hardened item.

Soft "Sodders" are ideal providing all the bits are clean and the joint has obviously wetted properly, something many seem to have the inability to do.

Forget the new Leadless compounds, good ole "Ersin Multicore" 60/40 is still King, the exclusion of Lead gives a brittle joint.

Regards Ian.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 10:09 AM
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First, I would like to apologize to 'Don' for participating in the hijacking of HIS thread. If someone knows how to copy/rename the soldering portion to a new thread..go for it.

Ian, there seems to be an inconsistant use of terms for silver/silver bearing solder. I have no problem agreeing with a low and high heat explaination of the process. Again, manufacturers (US) do not differentiate...everything is named 'silver solder'. I happened to run into the following in a bike repair blog:

"Note: While modern U.S. usage calls the use of these alloys silver brazing, obsolete U.S. works and many current British sources often use the terms silver soldering or hard soldering to describe the same process. This is a source of continuing confusion, since silver solder is a term also used to describe much weaker alloys used at low temperatures for plumbing work. To avoid confusion, try to refer to an alloy's composition, standardized classification, or melting and flowing temperatures. When in doubt, seek clarification."

Wayne
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Salmon-Run View Post
First, I would like to apologize to 'Don' for participating in the hijacking of HIS thread. If someone knows how to copy/rename the soldering portion to a new thread..go for it.
Not a probelm at all. My original question was answered, soldering was brought up, so this discussion is interesting.

Thanks,
Don
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 05:01 PM
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The 'Wack, BC, Canada
Joined Oct 2002
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It's simply not a wise idea to use "hard" silver solder on music wire.

Once it's heated to a dull red the desireable spring qualities of the wire are gone. And a dull red for the carbon content of music wire isn't hot enough to re-harden it. So oil or water quenching won't do anything but leave it annealed. Also even if the part which is glowing is hot enough to harden then the zones outside of the hardened part will not be hot enough to harden but would have gotten hot enough to anneal them.

So "hard" silver soldering with a torch for music wire is out of the question if we want to retain the spring like qualities that the wire came with.

"Soft" silver bearing tin/lead solders and copper or fine soft steel wire binding gives us a good joint which is more than strong enough for the majority of requirements. And the lower soft soldering temperatures are not so hot as to remove the spring qualities of the music wire.
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Old Mar 07, 2012, 06:50 PM
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There has been NO confusion on the RHSOTP for more than a hundred years Wayne, "Silver Soldering" means one thing only, There ain't no Tin or Lead in it. The main supplier in the UK being Johnson Mathey. The only problem recently has been the Euro nannies outlawing the use of compounding Cadmium in the mix which allowed it to flow easily.

regards Ian
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Old Mar 08, 2012, 10:17 AM
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"The only problem recently has been the Euro nannies outlawing the use of compounding Cadmium in the mix which allowed it to flow easily."

Feel fortunate that you do not live in Tree Hugging, Liberal, California; where they have outlawed EVERYTHING that made anything useable.

Les
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 03:05 AM
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Bradford West Yorkshire, UK
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Don't think I'd argue with a Terminator either

Regards Ian.
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