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Old Apr 11, 2002, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimble_Schmitz
[...] try that litle trolly from Jepe [...]
Why should it work any better? Did you look at the videos of the MiG-29 I posted above?

The dolly is simple but has several obvious disadvantages 1) you need a really smooth surface 2) the plane slides on the ground so motor has to be off otherwise you suck in dirt 3) it does not quite bring the plane above stall speed as quickly compared to my ramp 4) it does not provide you with a 10 degree or so angle so you are hugging the ground for a while...

Yes that is my MiG-29 refueling at the MWE 2000. I flew it a few times.

The one next to it is my Eurofighter 2000, http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...0&pagenumber=1
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kimble_Schmitz
try that litle trolly from Jepe, it should work great with the right amount of rubber.
How does it work on dirt and/or grass fields? I wasn't a believer in bungees or pedal launchers until I saw the difference it made on flying my F-4. If I'm going to do a trolley, I'd rather have real landing gear; at least I can steer!

Daren
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Old Apr 11, 2002, 04:09 PM
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The main advantage I see to JePe's contraption is its simplicity (just a triangular shaped steel wire with two wheels at the ends), my pvc launch ramp is as wide as my car.

But by the time I setup all this bungee junk I might as well have a nice solid foolproof ramp .

LG & retracts is of course the best way to go, but there is an obvious weight penalty which is non-negligible for edf's ...
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Old Apr 13, 2002, 02:52 PM
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size please

Herb

I know this is a little bigger than the KC F/A-18, but I don't know what size that is either. Dimensions, and area please. Thank you.

Stephen
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Old Apr 15, 2002, 02:33 AM
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... The wingspan is about 85 cms (34 inches), the wing area is about 365 sq in - but additional lift is obviously generated by the wide fuse. Rtf weight is 73 oz, twin Plettenberg power full throttle around 800 Watts.
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Old May 08, 2002, 06:21 AM
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Hi Herb,

I saw your nice video with your Mig and the launcher made of pipes, a few weeks ago when I was working in Ireland.
I told you I am working on an Offshore Suchoi S-37 Berkut. It is ready and I tested it yesterday. After launching my Suchoi went strait into the sky, rolled complete to the back and flew in my direction. I shut off the EDFs and put the Suchoi down. What I think is, that the CG is much more in front, than mentioned in the drawing, because it was not possible to bring down the nose with the control. When I tried to give thrust again, it tried to loop again. What do you think how much i should move the CG to the front for the next test?

Heiner
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Old May 08, 2002, 11:51 AM
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Heiner,
This question came up on Allen's YF-23 thread. How did your Berkut fly with power off? If it flew okay with power off, but wanted to diverge from level flight with power on, then the thrust line is most likely askew.

I've posted this on your S-37 thread also.
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Old May 08, 2002, 02:03 PM
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Heiner, I will try to answer with more details when I have a chance, but here are a few tips to work on:

0) How did it behave when you turned the power off, did it recover & fly decently?

1) Write to or phone Claus Franken at Offshore and check with him about CG and up/down thrust issues.

2) recalculate the CG as accurately as you can, taking into account tail moment & fuse lift.

3) Build a small paper model!!! Make it as accurate as possible in outline, and with fins of course. This will be a further check on thye CG and will give you a handle on the CG sensitivity.

4) After all of the above, a slightly forward CG is better than a rerward CG, which can make the plane uncontrollable...


One more general comment, the Offshore plans I have seen have quite a bit of up-thrust & very forward CG to compensate. Remember, they were designed to fly on twin S480's... I do NOT have significant up-thrust in my MiG-29 (nor did I have it in my MiG-31), so my CG is "where it's supposed to be", and not as far forward as CF would put it.

In your case, if you did put in quite a bit of up-thust, you need to move the CG forward, then my question would be: how does it compare to the CG on the plans? Do you have 5 degrees or so up-thrust? If the answer is yes, then you need a CG that's more forward to compensate for the up-thrust...

Btw how is it powerwise, do you have plenty of thrust? The 66 mm fans are less of a load (-20%) than the standard MF480, so maybe 10 cells on a twin is not much...

If I were you I would not fly it again until I have at least partially sorted out some of the above issues... It would be a pity to lose such a beautiful plane.
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Old May 10, 2002, 02:43 AM
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Hi Herb,

thank you very much for your answer!

0) Even when I turned off power, the nose came not down by itself
1) I mailed almost to Claus Franken, but I could not reach him the last days
2) It is more or less, according with the plans of CF
3) I built a small scaled model 3:1 of my SUCHOI, as you told me some month ago, the CG I found, was plus/minus the CG mentioned in my plans
4) It was nearly uncontrollable what I saw during the first test

When I move the CG on my scaled model a little to the back, then it flies like my Suchoi, the tail down, nose up and braking out to the left and right. (without power thrust)

So I am very sure, I have to move the CG to the front. The question is, how much for the next step. I think I should move it by 1 inch , what do you think?

Power thrust on my 2 KONTRONIK FUN 400-36 10x 2400 SANYO and WEMOTEC EDFs, diameter 66 mm, about 1200 g tested.

(Even if I would loose the first SUCHOI, by testing it out, I will build the next one, until I solved all problems! I do not give up fast)

Heiner
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Old May 10, 2002, 03:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heiner Skroblin When I move the CG on my scaled model a little to the back, then it flies like my Suchoi, the tail down, nose up and braking out to the left and right. (without power thrust)

So I am very sure, I have to move the CG to the front. The question is, how much for the next step. I think I should move it by 1 inch , what do you think?
Take a photo of the top of the model and I'll do a quick CG calc that should get you pretty close.

Below is an example of what I mean.

Dan
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Old May 10, 2002, 03:37 AM
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@ Dan,

I will set in a foto on Monday next week!

Thanks Heiner
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Old May 10, 2002, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Heiner Skroblin
Hi Herb,

thank you very much for your answer!

[...] I think I should move it by 1 inch , what do you think? [...]

Heiner
One inch is quite a bit but maybe that is what you need, it's very hard to judge things without having seen the plane - or the first flight. Maybe 2/3 of an inch should do but who knows.

I would not hold up elevator when it flies off the bungee, have an inclined ramp instead at 5-10 degrees. Another question that comes to mind is: Are the canards at zero incidence (mine are on the EF 2000)?, if you have positive incidence there it would tend to pull the nose up... And make sure you have enough elevator throw to pull the nose UP if the CG on the next flight is a bit on the forward side.

Good luck, hwh
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Old May 10, 2002, 05:59 PM
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Herb

Many thanks for your reply to my request for details on your Spit. I did try to reply at length via all your 3 email addresses, but kept getting bounced back!

Best regards

Gordon
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Old May 13, 2002, 02:26 AM
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Hi Herb,

I moved the CG 1 inch and I made about 7-8 flights as a glider with my SUCHOI, without EDFs and just a small cells. Now the SUCHOI is gliding and brings down the nose by it selfe. The canards are zero, and thrust line is also Zero, may be max 1 degree. There is also no angle between wing and elevators. Yesterday the weather was to bad, so I could not test with EDFs.

I think first I will also prepare a small ramp like you are using to launch your jets. I think it is much safer. Are you using gyros?

Heiner
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Old May 13, 2002, 06:10 AM
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@ Dan,

here you will find a foto of my scaled 3:1 model of the SUCHOI. I hope that will work.


Heiner
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Old Nov 26, 2002, 01:09 PM
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Lately I have been doing some minor refurbishing work on the MiG-29.

Removed all decals, stripped the paint off completely and proceeded to strengthen some areas in need of work. Such as the wing root and wing joint, fuse bottom, as well as the horiz stabs. All in preparation for a bit more power at the same or even slightly less weight...

Now it really does look like a soviet fighter ...

I will have to make a new pack as well, the old one does not quite deliver the punch it used to...


Before:
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Old Nov 26, 2002, 01:11 PM
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After stripping paint and primer, reinforcing & revarnishing with polyurethane,
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Old Nov 26, 2002, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
All in preparation for a bit more power at the same or even slightly less weight...
Hi Herb,
What are you upgrading to?

Daren
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Old Nov 27, 2002, 12:45 PM
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I am still debating whether I should switch motors or not. It still would involve major surgery.

I also would like to open some hatches to access some of the electronics & cabling more easily, in particular the receiver came loose once.

Finally I am trying to fit a bigger battery in....
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Old Nov 27, 2002, 01:46 PM
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Ouch! Sounds like one of those jobs I'd rather read about than do.

Good luck,
Daren
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Old Dec 15, 2002, 03:43 PM
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Flew it with the new pack, now again plenty of power , would almost fly on one motor only - blew the other one ...

Went ahead and ordered a complete set of replacement brushes from Germany...
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Old Jan 21, 2003, 08:16 PM
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Finally the replacement brushes (two sets) arrived from Plettenberg Germany, very good service by the way.

Opened up the bottom, took out both fans, examined the motors, opened up hatches in fuse top, examined all wiring, solder joints, esc, all in order.

Very very gently pulled out all four brushes, compared to brand new ones: 8mm new vs 6-7 mm for mine -> they are still fine after two years of use !!! The commutator needed to be cleaned, spent an hour yesterday evening with a cotton swab cleaning the copper... Springs & capacitors are fine. Commutator nice, shiny and even now, cleaned out the motor & oiled the bearings, fired them up and they seem as good as new.

So: All this trouble and I only needed to clean the commutators ...

Ulf do I need to replace brushes if I have 1-2mm (out of 8mm) wear? I assumed the answer was no.
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Old Jan 21, 2003, 09:53 PM
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Herb,

I had the same problem. I was running my HP200/20/6 on 12cells and all of a sudden no power. I opened it up and all that was wrong was a dirty commutator. Clean it up and it was fine, I loaned that MF480 combo to someone but now I can't remember who!! Hmmmm
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Old Jan 22, 2003, 11:41 PM
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Herb
do you have any more pictures of the actual building process?
I'm thinking of building one using the formers you used, but I'd like to see some other shots?

thanks


Chris
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Old Jan 23, 2003, 01:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Ulf do I need to replace brushes if I have 1-2mm (out of 8mm) wear? I assumed the answer was no.

IIRC the brushes can be worn to ~50% of original size, any deeper and you'll start to wear down on the cobberbraid.
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Old Jan 23, 2003, 01:22 PM
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Kevin: I'd try to get that MF back if I were you ...

Foxbat: There's a few pics in this thread, I don't have any more.

I had to cut quite a few access hatches to get to the electronics & wiring,
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Old Jan 23, 2003, 01:25 PM
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... but after closing the hatches again you barely see them,
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Old Jan 24, 2003, 01:37 PM
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Retiring it eh?

Herb,

Nice job on the finish.... Retiring it eh?

Hope to see it flying again soon!

Phil
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Old Jan 24, 2003, 02:15 PM
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.... It's refueling right now, will take to the air tomorrow again .

I have to find a way of cleaning the brushes & commutator wthout having to take the fans out. Maybe compressed air.
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Old Jan 25, 2003, 05:35 AM
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Herb!

Do you know the OFFSHORE-System of removable fan units? That would solve your service problem of the fan motors. They are removable from the backside without any openings from the bottom or upper side.

Heiner
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Old Jan 25, 2003, 02:29 PM
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Heiner, now the two MiniFans are more removable... Still there's duct tape & silicone to hold them in place and prevent noisy vibrations, and the wiring for the motors, and finally the two access hatches to get to the motors ....

Now I just have to get the courage up to fly this thing again after all the painting .
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Old Jan 26, 2003, 04:59 PM
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Re: Retiring it eh?

Quote:
Originally posted by XPHAM
Herb, ... Hope to see it flying again soon! Phil

Phil you missed it, it flew again yesterday!... After a year definitely not as fast as the more recent stuff. Took a short video too. Will bring the MiG-29 to the MWE, most likely for static display as we'll be there friday only and unfortunately will miss the weekend zoo...
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Old Jan 26, 2003, 05:32 PM
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Now I know where I got my paint job from.

Glad to hear you got it in the air again Herb, it sure is pretty.

Steve
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Old Jan 26, 2003, 11:21 PM
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Out of retirement

Hi Herb,

I'm glad your last sortie was fruitful as I have always thought your twin engined 29 was more of a work of art.

Kind of inspired me to build my twinjet I designed 3 years ago.... Lots of cutting and sanding this weekend; Damn, should have come out to see the Fulcrum

I was intrigued by the small (low power) KP-44 fans at the time and drew up a Horten Ho 9 for them. More cutting and sanding

If it fies, you can fly your new hi-tech Fulcrum next to my low power Nurflugel Ho 9....

Phil
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Old Jan 27, 2003, 05:16 AM
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Hi Herb, where do you fly at? I live in Lake Forest. It would be nice to see some other folks flying. I usually fly in Irvine off of Alton. Sorry to veture O.T.
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Old Jan 27, 2003, 05:20 AM
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Herb!

"Now I just have to get the courage up to fly this thing again after all the painting."

My new SUCHOI S-37 is ready, but I haven't the courage to try yet.

Heiner
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Old Jan 27, 2003, 01:06 PM
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Heiner, The Mig-29 flies just fine , here's a short video from saturday:

MiG-29 video (11 MB)

Ginsu generally we fly on saturday and sunday afternoon (after 1pm) at Fairview park in costa mesa (look for canyon drive on your oc map).
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Old Jan 28, 2003, 06:11 PM
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Thanks Herb, I heard people fly there. I gonna have to stop and visit sometime.
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Old Jul 06, 2003, 01:31 AM
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hey herb, u got any plans for that MIG?

Im a total noob ^^ but i definatly wanna give it ago to see if i can build a plan!

Im gonna get hold of some polystrne first ^^ see if im good at it, and if i can get a plane flying. Then i will move onto maybe balsa?


Have you got a guide/site to building one of ur planes ?
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Old Aug 26, 2003, 02:13 PM
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It is built from scratch by slightly enlarging the original offshore plan to make the twin MF480's fit:

http://members.aol.com/offshoreel/modelle3.htm

You will find more details about mine at the beginning of this thread. It could definitely use some larger size NiMHd batteries but unfortunately the fuse space is quite limited...

A few flight videos of mine are linked here:

http://rcgroups.com/gallery/showgall...500&ppuser=165

About six months ago after a few flights it got a new paint job,
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Old Nov 20, 2003, 03:32 PM
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I received two offers to make a fiberglass carbon composite either all moulded, or partially moulded, version of the above near scale MiG-29 Fulcrum .

That would make the model quite a bit stronger and lighter, and allow for more room for batteries, and therefore allow performance far beyond the 850 Watts that's in there right now. And weight significantly below the present 73 oz rtf (4.6 pds or 2.07 kg) for the same power setup. W/o the battery pack the rtf weight is now at about 49 oz.

The kit could be offered as a FG molded fuselage (made in top & bottom halves), complete ducting - which is just more or less two straight fg tubes, and foam core wings. Or as a fully molded version including moulded wings.

The FG fuse option with foam core wings seems the most sensible option at this point. Unfortunately the model would have to be butchered to make the fg mold.

I wonder if there's any interest in such a project.
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Old Nov 20, 2003, 04:22 PM
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Oh I bet people would jump on this one as a FG kit, go for it.
it's a great looking model.

ryan d.
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Old Nov 20, 2003, 04:24 PM
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Herb,

You have my interest of course. Almost done with the Huck.

Steve
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Old Nov 20, 2003, 08:37 PM
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Herb
Nice job with paint. I have a question. How did you get the detailed lines on the MIG 29 after painting it?
Ive never done that so wouldnt know
thanks again
ami
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 01:02 AM
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I just drew the lines with a fine tip pen called Sharpie. I have occasionally used also Pilot paint white and silver pens from an artist supply store.

The trick to getting straight lines on a curved surface is using a flexible ruler, again from an arts supply store...
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 01:46 AM
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I'd hate to see such a nice plane butchered, but it would be giving it's life for what should be a popular model.

Barry
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 06:14 AM
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Hi Herb,

The 29 looks great, I use the pens for all the panel lines and like you I have used the white and silver Pilot range. Another good range is Staedtler, they have fine line markers with 0.3mm,0.5mm,
0.7mm tips.

A tip I picked up from Chris Golds, when lining out flaps or other suitable surfaces is to place a white occasionaly broken line along side the black line and it gives the impression of shadow and highlight of the panel or control surface. It really does transform a paintjob.

Cheers
Ron
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkamarm2000
I'd hate to see such a nice plane butchered, but it would be giving it's life for what should be a popular model.

Barry
The composite version is going to be a lot lighter and yet far stronger. It will take more power, fly better and be more durable.

A semi kit in the $200 range should be feasible I hope, although I am not a composite fabrication expert at all .
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 03:15 PM
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sounds great to me Herb.

Barry
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Old Nov 24, 2003, 11:36 PM
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Speaking of off shore, anyone know the best method to order from them for the U.S.
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Old Aug 21, 2004, 12:53 PM
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Kit available ?

Hi Herb.

Is the kit still available ?

-Sakke
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Old Aug 30, 2004, 06:01 PM
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I'm curious too, and what other kits are available from Herb.

Excellent work!
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Old Nov 03, 2004, 02:52 PM
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I'm curious as well, to say the least
Any chance of having kit released?

Thanks!
Phil
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Old Nov 04, 2004, 01:29 PM
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It's a modified Offshore plan. Sorry I am not myself in the kitting business .

.
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Old Nov 05, 2004, 03:47 AM
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Thanks for reply, Herb! Beautiful plane! Couldn't resist the idea of building one from kit
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Last edited by EKar; Nov 05, 2004 at 03:50 AM.
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Old Nov 05, 2004, 06:33 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
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There's not much demand for a MF480 twin ...

Twin fans, twin BL motors, twin BL controllers all add up in $$$. Someday if I can get mine all in one piece to Albuquerqe NM, some very talented person there might decide to pull a nice mold ...

My next one will be twin 90 mm, all molded and big .

The Germans are coming out with a brand-new all-molded Su-35 for twin 90 mm fans as well, early next year.
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
There's not much demand for a MF480 twin ... .
Really? I thought that's a very nice set-up for twin engine jet models. What would be a better twin EDF setup in your opinion?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
The Germans are coming out with a brand-new all-molded Su-35 for twin 90 mm fans as well, early next year.
Do you know any more details on that? Wingspan? Who is it going to be coming from?
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 01:08 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EKar
... Do you know any more details on that? Wingspan? Who is it going to be coming from?
The twin 90mm fan (or single 120 mm fan) Su-27 is around 1.0 m ws and 1.4 m length, all moulded, made by a well known German manufacturer who specializes in all-composite edf's,

.
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 01:31 PM
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Helsinki Vantaa, Finland
Joined Jul 2004
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Mig-29 is still available as a kit from Offshore models. I ordered one last month and I've just started building it..

It will have Hacker B40-8L motors and CC-80 controllers..

Just goto to http://members.aol.com/offshoreel/index.htm and order the kit by email and you will be building in couple of weeks.

/Ari
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 04:45 PM
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My German is nonexistant. I thought they only offer plans. Could you advisce how to order a kit from them? How did it came to you? Pre-cut parts?
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 04:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herb
The twin 90mm fan (or single 120 mm fan) Su-27 is around 1.0 m ws and 1.4 m length, all moulded, made by a well known German manufacturer who specializes in all-composite edf's,

.
How do we get in line for the kit? Ballpark figure for the price?
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 04:56 PM
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Helsinki Vantaa, Finland
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My German is as bad.. Luckily you can use altavista's or google's language tools and Mr. Franken communicates in English as well..

Bauplan + Anleitg. = plans and instructions
CNC-Spanten = CNC cut parts (very good quality)
Klarsichthaube = plastic cockpit
Rumpfspitze = plastic nose

Also you can get wings which are balsa covered styrox (foam)..
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Old Nov 06, 2004, 05:00 PM
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Apparently my internet skills are non-existant either I tried to use google language tools with little success.
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Old Nov 07, 2004, 05:44 PM
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AriL,

I tried to contact Offshore but their replies were all in German. Which email did you write to? Hope I could establish contact in English. I tried to get a friend of mine who knows German to help me but he got lost in RC terms, it seems. Also, please tell me how to order the wing set that you mention.

Thank you!

Phil
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Old Oct 06, 2005, 11:55 AM
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Oulu, Finland
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Herb: Where to get that SU-27 Kit?
You said its from Germany?

- Reik
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Old Oct 07, 2005, 08:01 AM
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Stockholm Arlanda, Sweden
Joined Dec 1999
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GRUMANIA JET MODELS

http://www.grumania.de/html/su27_flanker1.html

Regards
Martin
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Old Oct 24, 2005, 03:59 PM
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Berlin Kaulsdorf, Germany
Joined Oct 2002
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Hello Herb,

could you do me a favor and make a picture from the air intake of your mig 29? That would be nice because i cant imagine how this is solved on the offshore mig.

Regards
Stefan
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Old Oct 28, 2005, 07:21 PM
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Irvine, Calif USA
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The intakes are close to scale, squarish and about the right size for the Minifan. As you can see from the video it flies just fine. Nowadays a lightweight fg molded fuselage would be my choice.
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Old Dec 14, 2005, 08:40 PM
Bertrand MICHELS
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Belgium
Joined Nov 2003
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Has someone built the EDF version of the grumania Su27 ?? What set-up and weught ?
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