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Old Feb 03, 2004, 03:08 AM
HobbyKing
Paul Susbauer's Avatar
Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
4,457 Posts
SAE Aerodesign competition

Hey guys, some of you may recall the thread last year when myself, and a team of engineers (ugh) from Gonzaga University entered in the SAE Aerodesign West RC design competition.

Last years plane

Well its a year later, we have more funding this year, a year under our belt, a better design, and turns out, we're all a little smarter... (whoa.. didn't see that one coming )

Anyways, this years rules have dictated a 10 ft. wingspan minimum, instead of last year's 6ft maximum. All this with only an OS .61 glow engine to power the plane.

A plane this big means its gonna be long, lanky and gliderlike. Instead of our traditional balsa and ply like we used last year, we're going all composite.

We started building a week ago with the plug for our fuselage being the first thing on tap. Next we'll make the female molds for our fuselage. We're doing it this way as we don't want to do the lost foam technique, in case we need a spare fuselage.

We're in need of a few things though for the project still. We had someone lined up to do our foam wing cores, but the company has recently shut down, so we are in need of a new cutter.

Additionally we are in need of some radio equipment. (Servos and such) so if you guys have some lying around you want to let go for some $$$, let me know. Like I said earlier, we have more money this year, but we also have more expenses.

Our plane is costing waaaaay more than it did last year, plus we have to fly to the competition this year, as its being held at the Ft. Worth Thunderbirds RC club there in Texas which is further than our drive last year, plus we have about 9 people going, as opposed to last year's 5.

Here is a screen shot of the plans as they sat a month or so back. They have evolved more since this shot was taken. In the next day or so I'll have some more pics of the fuselage plug as it gets more progress done to it.

--Paul
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 11:50 AM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,370 Posts
I likes it!
Is that a "Fokker landing gear wing" underneath?
Note the Thunderbird field is at a lake. The flight path might go over the lake, depending on the wind.
.
a heads-up on shipping the plane..
The Parks College guys shipped their plane to me from St. Louis, about 2 weeks before the event.
It never got here!
The Friday it was supposed to be delivered and thcy came to pick it up, nada!
The team leader got on the phone and discovered the plane was off-loaded from the initial transport because the box was too large, and the plane was being sent by ground.
And was at the time in Ohio. Which is EAST of Missouri.
After a little "reasoning", the carrier decided it could be airfreighted after all, and arrived at Ontario Airport the next morning.
So, check the size limits!
.
The Embry-Riddle Daytona Beach guys shipped their 18' twin wing to Tony F.
Their box was made of 1/4" lite ply, with 1"x2" firring strips on all corners. The 8' ply sheets were cut to fit.. Box dimensions were 1'x2'x18'. Assembled with screws.
When it got to Rosamond, there was a hole in it! Something heavy had punctured the ply, but didn't get to the wing.
As they had no need to ship the wing back , I ended up with the box. Makes several good building boards
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 12:08 PM
Senior Member unum multum
mudfarmer_mike's Avatar
United States, AL, Huntsville
Joined Dec 2001
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Nice clean profile. Much more aggressive design than last year.
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 12:38 PM
HobbyKing
Paul Susbauer's Avatar
Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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Quote:
Originally posted by mudfarmer_mike
Nice clean profile. Much more aggressive design than last year.
Thats the Idea.

Quote:
Is that a "Fokker landing gear wing" underneath?
Nope, a very misplaced tip airfoil.

As far as shipping goes, the tail boom separates from the fuselage pod, along with the tail. Additionally it is a two piece wing so the plane is rather modular.

--Paul
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 12:49 PM
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Fitz Walker's Avatar
Where Spacemen Live (TX)
Joined Jan 2000
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Paul (1st one). The event is happening at my club (just found out about week ago)! Since I myself participated in the event a few years ago, they asked me to help out on the event. I see the rules have changed quite a bit (no more wimpy K&B engines). If you have any questions or special requirements, let me know. It looks like some 25 teams will show up, should be quite an event.


Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky Paul
I likes it!
Note the Thunderbird field is at a lake. The flight path might go over the lake, depending on the wind.
.
This is not a problem, you have to try really hard to get to the lake as it is (guessing) about a 1/4 mile away. Especially on a lumbering cargo plane. The field has good approaches and pattern space. Here is a sattelite pic showing the distance: http://www.fwthunderbirds.org/images...1/fieldsat.jpg

Quote:
Originally posted by Sparky Paul .
The Embry-Riddle Daytona Beach guys shipped their 18' twin wing to Tony F.
[/B]
Hey, my alma mater (sp?)! When was this? When I participated, we stayed on the east coast.
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 01:12 PM
HobbyKing
Paul Susbauer's Avatar
Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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Hey Fitz,
I had a feeling this was your feild from some pics I've seen in your ezone column's. Should I have room I'll be bringing a heli for play time before and after the comp...

Thanks for the pic of the field. I think I'd seen that once before, so I haven't been worrying too much about it.

--Paul
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 01:32 PM
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SoarNeck's Avatar
Calgary, Alberta
Joined Nov 2001
1,491 Posts
Hi Paul,

In case you folks don't have much experience with composite work, I put some pages up at:

http://www.geocities.com/sunbirdz/20...sign_Home.html

I've modified my techniques quite a bit since I did that model (especially working with Kevlar), but the pages might give you some ideas. If I can help at all, let me know.

Seriously consider dropping Bill Hayman a line to get one or both of his DVD's. He might sponsor you and give you a copy, but they'd be worth buying outright:

http://www.paonline.com/hayman/video.htm

Good luck!
Adam
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 01:34 PM
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Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fitz Walker


Hey, my alma mater (sp?)! When was this? When I participated, we stayed on the east coast.
.
Here's their twin. Out of the box, into the air and the ground, wing stress test and burial.
.
Fitz, in 2000 a former Lockheed-Martin VP got LM to sponsor a west coast event. We ran it here at Lancaster for 4 years.
It's moved to Ft. Worth for 2004.
Working on the event is the most fun I've ever had with model airplanes!
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 01:37 PM
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Calgary, Alberta
Joined Nov 2001
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Re: the design.

From a structural perspective, a three piece wing would be stronger (and lighter, likely). That way you don't have a wing rod at the point of greatest bending moment, which will neccesarily be heavier than smaller joiners out nearer to the tips. Bolt the center panel under the fuse, and use small keys to bolt the tips on (or Multiplex Multilocks).

Do you really need that much ground clearance BTW? Longer legs are draggier, and more prone to bending.

I'd personally lose the angled rudder hingeline as well. That will introduce roll coupling, which may or may not be a good thing. Granted it looks better designed that way
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 01:42 PM
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Calgary, Alberta
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Consider the tailplane airfoils used on this model for your control surfaces:

http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articl...la_aegea2m.htm

Nice and thin, no hysteresis, nice and light. Servos might stick out a bit, but you can't have everything! Worked well for me.

The one pictured for the stab looks like a pretty thick draggy section.
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 02:11 PM
HobbyKing
Paul Susbauer's Avatar
Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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Hey guys, thanks for the input on it. Like I said, a lot of it has changed (the tail has anyway) as at the time that pic was taken, there wasn't a tail, and I had to do a quick slapdash version as we were doing a presentation for someone.

The 3 Piece wing isn't too bad of idea, except in this case, due to how little room I left for the wing and such below the payload, there isnt' enough room to actually have part of a wing pass through the fuselage, hence the plug in wings.

We're estimating for an 8lb airframe, which if we're careful can be accomplished. Our plane was 8 lbs last year, and was totally over built. We could have been at 6lbs if we had wanted to.

We're using lighter servos, lighter rx battery, smaller fuel tank, etc.... which should balance out for an overall bigger airframe.

--Paul
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 02:39 PM
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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This one at the 2003 Aero Design West shows a strong Drela influence, and it looks like has a pup, with Paul's!
Don't do the horizontal as poorly as it was done on this thing.
A living breathing limit cycle.
The plane is said to be going to Ft. Worth, same envelope, 12 pounds!
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 03:23 PM
HobbyKing
Paul Susbauer's Avatar
Hong Kong, Hong Kong Island, Hong Kong
Joined Apr 2001
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Paul,
I heard the same 12 lb figure...and I'll admit, this one strongly influenced the layout of ours, except we'll have a good tail design.

For engineers, that was one pooptastic horizontal stab. I honestly don't see how it ever even got past the drawing board. I looked at it before I ever saw it fly and said "Man, that is asking for trouble."

Overall though, its a beautiful design.


--Paul
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 04:57 PM
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member73's Avatar
Wakefield, MA
Joined Feb 2001
769 Posts
Great looking design. I had a blast building our SAE plane for WPI in '94 (god was it that long ago?).

I found this site to be a big help, especially with the spar info. They have a great design for a plug in type carbon spar.

https://www.cstsales.com/How_to_Articles/index.htm

Keep us posted!
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Old Feb 03, 2004, 05:52 PM
No "R" !!!!!!!
Fitz Walker's Avatar
Where Spacemen Live (TX)
Joined Jan 2000
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Sparky, thanks for the pics. Do you recall the cause of the crash?

I understand Lockheed is sponsering the event here as well.

Paul, sure, bring your heli. The club has areas to the side specifically for heli flying. The runway is actually longer now than in the picture.
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