HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 26, 2004, 09:52 PM
Registered User
Southlake, Tx
Joined Apr 2002
370 Posts
HUGE performance upgrade for your FTM MiG-15 and F-86!

Hello, friends, customers and all. Someone was looking for some FTM "buzz" and we have got some to share!

Fan-Tastic Models has been working on ways to increase the performance of our great little molded foam jets. While they fly fine on the stock EDF 50, there is not a single R/Cer that will not embrace more power, plus freedom from the string of burned out EDF 50 motors.

Are you ready for a 6.1 oz FTM jet that has more than 6.1 oz of thrust and that will do huge sweeping loops outdoors? With almost unlimited vertical performance? With a frankly amazing turn of speed? That you can fly in 15-20 mile per hour winds? and a model that is no longer dependant on finicky brushed motors? Read on.

We contacted Niels Polfliet in Belgium when we read about his fantastic results with CD-rom brushless motor conversions in homemade fan units with EDF-50 fan rotors. This interesting thread is here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=140736

He was kind enough to wind us a hot 24mm CD ROM motor in a trading arrangment. When the motor arrived, we REALLY liked what we saw, but decided to make a few changes to make it more user friendly. We did not like gluing the rotor to a carbon shaft, so we redid the housing to accept a stock 3MM GWS shaft from a drive unit. We also had a friend machine a motor mount/bearing holder that would allow us to mount the motor in the stock EDF 50 fan housing. The motor mount is the diameter of the old EDF motor and supports and retains the drive shaft. We drill out our EDF 50 rotors and hold them on with the stock nuts from the IPS drive units.

To make room for the CD rom motor in the fan housing, we simply reversed the fan shroud and stuck the CD rom mount in the back of old motor mount. YES, we know: This makes the stators kind of backwards, but trust us. It does not matter...

We added a CC Phoenix 10 controller to our new monster EDF 50 fan, and bolted on a 5 bladed impeller. We installed it in a new, unpainted but decaled MiG-15.

First flight was on a 2S Kokam 340 Li-poly battery pack. This flight showed us that we were on the right track, especially for indoors. It was at least 10% faster than any stock EDF 50 model we had ever flown. There was no need to climby slowly. We then tried the same setup with the stock 3bladed 2-2 impeller. Pretty whimpy, but no worse than a stock EDF-50.

Then, we put in a 3 cell 340 Lipoly pack and went back to the 5 bladed impeller. The results were just incredible. It is too fast for any but the best to fly indoors and frankly, it was scaring people in there a little.... Estimated but unmeasured fan RPM was at lleast 40K.

We moved outdoors and flew some more. The MiG would do tall loops and never run out of power. Wind was not an issue. Speed was not measured, but it was 10-15 MPH faster than the stock model, at least.

A local modeler let us borrow his micro e-data aerial downlink and we installed it in the model to aquire current draw data while in flight. This CD rom conversion on the 5 bladed GWS impeller was drawing 6.3-6.8 amps in flight, with a brief peak of 7 amps a couple of times. The motor, battery and controller are barely warm to the touch.

We measured the weight of the three cell MiG-15 model and it is 6.1 oz. We did a brief thrust measurment on our scale (nose down, model braced as well as we could and the scale read a good bit over 6.1 oz of thrust after we had tared away the weight of the model...

We do not plan to be in the motor making business, but we do plan to help our customers find the best possible sources for parts to wind and build their own motors and hopefully and possibly a source of motors that can be bought ready to go.

The downside: to get this performance, you have to spend a good bit more than 15-20 bucks for a GWS motor controller and 15 bucks for a GWS fan unit. A CC Phoenix 10 controller will run 51-59 bucks. If you are handy in the shop, you can salvage the CD ROM motor and convert it for a few bucks in magnets, drive shafts and bearings. Otherwise, when and if a source of the motors comes about, we predict that a hot CD ROM EDF 50 fan motor will cost at least $50 bucks, and as much as $75-80.

We are also running the 340 Kokams a little hard at slightly over 6 amps.

But, investing and doing this takes a parkflyer jet and turns it into a real ducted fan experience, with a thrust to weight that is seldom seen in EDFmodels at any price.

We will be posting more information here as it comes, including lots of pictures, videos, motor source information and anything else that can help our customers convert old models and set up new models.

Think about what this will do for the GWS A-10 and other EDF-50 park jets out there...
FanTasticModels is offline Find More Posts by FanTasticModels
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 27, 2004, 12:00 AM
Registered User
Rudi's Avatar
Österreich, Oberösterreich, Laakirchen
Joined Jan 2001
3,340 Posts
Hello Guys,

I can confirm this !!! After a lot of mails and PM's with Niels and some tests I make a CD-R (dia 28mm) with 10 W with 0,5mm CU wire in star configuration with 5x5x1 Goldmagnets. I placed it in the same way as the guys from FanTasTic Models and get simular results with one little different. With 3 Lipos K340 HD I get about 5.5 Amp. because I have 10 Windings and not 8Windings. I spend mine 10 Windings because with 8 Windings my Controller lost the communication to the engine (to much RPM's. for my old controller, new one is on order)
Since I am owner of this little Mig15 I am very happy, but since it fly with this CD-R update I am the happiest modeller in the world.
To make it possible to fly with Lipo's I had to relocate the elevatorservo (so far forward as poss.) to get the correct CG.

Greetings from vienna

Rudi
Rudi is offline Find More Posts by Rudi
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 12:37 AM
Zoom, zoom...
Trikster's Avatar
Roseville, CA (Sacramento area)
Joined May 2003
3,514 Posts
When I saw Niels post on the motor, I thought of you guys right away. I am glad to hear that you are getting positive results from the conversion. I have everything in front of me to do the conversion, just not the plane. I wish this forum hadn't hosed my PM's from Niels as he and I worked out quite a bit of "stuff" to help out a novice in the motor build.

Soon, very soon...
Trikster is offline Find More Posts by Trikster
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 01:31 AM
go fly! no crashes!
Synwpn's Avatar
Honolulu, HI
Joined Jun 2003
2,845 Posts
wow! i've got Rudi's twin here and after some flights, decided i'd rather have it sitting pretty than really trashed up (especially as we have way too much wind now and no indoors to fly it!).

one of these would be perfect in it! give me enough power to keep out of trouble! i guess i'll have to attempt one myself!

this is an old pic. but man i love this plane!
Synwpn is offline Find More Posts by Synwpn
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 01:40 AM
Registered User
hyperknight's Avatar
Irvine, CA
Joined Apr 2003
1,346 Posts
What about sticking a wemotec microfan (50mm diameter - same as EDF-50) in with an Astro 010 8-turn motor. It's pretty light.

I use this setup with my Flying Styro A7 Corsair II - but with a razor 350 motor instead of the astro. I have a 3S 1500mAh kokam pack for batt. power and the thing moves. It's been clocked at 52mph.

I would think the wemotec with the astro motor and a lighter li-poly pack (some guys use the etec 3S 1200's), the FTM MIG or F86 should move pretty good.

FTM, have you tried this setup? Would be a heck of a lot easier then building the custom motor... Not cheaper though.

hk
hyperknight is offline Find More Posts by hyperknight
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:03 AM
Vault-Tech Approved
Racebelly's Avatar
Simi Valley, CA
Joined Apr 2003
1,285 Posts
hk,

I've been wondering about the MF/Astro(or Razor) setup in a FTM Mig myself. Seems like it should work great & like you said no fus with building a motor. Probably add an oz. or more but the increase in thrust should make up for that.

Although, if they can find a source for pre-built CD motors that would be great. Sounds like these things really move on their setup.

-Mark
Racebelly is offline Find More Posts by Racebelly
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 05:01 AM
Registered User
WURPFEL's Avatar
Swiss
Joined Jan 2004
91 Posts
hi folks

I have converted a WEMOTEC 50mm MICROFAN with a cdr and HOTWIRED. on the volksjäger its great: with only a 1200etec-cell
it`s have more thrust as weight.. the volksjäger has a span of 52cm and fly faster (optically ;-)) as other models on place.. with a huge TURBOSOUND!!!
with 2x1200etec the endurance is about 10min..
its also possible to fly indoors in a greater gym.

now I plan to add a retractable undercarridge..
WURPFEL is offline Find More Posts by WURPFEL
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 06:21 AM
Registered User
Ed Couch's Avatar
North Richland Hills, Texas USA
Joined Aug 2000
1,871 Posts
Gentlemen, last Friday I flew Jerries updated Mig-15 in about an 8 to 10 mile breeze and had a ball. The EDF 50 flew the Mig but lacked the authority of the new motor. I was able to pull loops using less than quarter elevator that took up the sky without slowing down, just beautiful. Long slow rolls without falling out or any loose of altitude. I'm a little rusty on my aerobatics but did manage a respectable 4-point roll or two. Five minutes later managed a sweet little landing at my feet. There is absolutely no comparison between the GWS and the new motor. Inside it gets scary and I've ask Jerry to put reins on her. Its that good. Guys I've flown ducted fans since the early Scozzi days and this little bird is as good of a ducted fan model as any I've flown over the years. I have a little Mig-15 and a beta F-100 just waiting for the combination motor to get back in the air. Guys its the difference between a Beetle and a Viper in the automobile world. Both will get ya there but how you get there is the question. Hoo-Aw!! ed
Ed Couch is offline Find More Posts by Ed Couch
Last edited by Ed Couch; Jan 27, 2004 at 06:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 07:49 AM
Registered User
Rudi's Avatar
Österreich, Oberösterreich, Laakirchen
Joined Jan 2001
3,340 Posts
I think the damaged CD-R drives become a lack of resource in the next time !!

Rudi
Rudi is offline Find More Posts by Rudi
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 08:17 AM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,515 Posts
I got to fly the MiG at the Lockheed indoor event last Sunday and I can confirm what Ed says. It is really working well! With 2 cells, it is perfect for indoors and you don't have any climb or power issues at all. And at that level, the motor and controller is loafing along.

The laps on three cells were the second fastest thing I have ever seen indoors and much the most impressive.

Before wandering off in the WeMoTec Microfan and Astro 020 direction, I would like a real weight comparison and current draw comparison. I think the Astro weighs more installed. At first glance, the Astro/WeMoTec, on 9 nicads or 3 Li-polys shows to turn about 34-35K RPM. This is far below what the EDF-50 and cd-rom motor is turning. (Different fan pitches, to be sure.)

Plus, I think most will be able to deploy the EDF-50 and cd-rom motor for well under the 150 bucks of the Astro/Microfan.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 08:34 AM
Registered User
Centreville,VA,USA
Joined Apr 2001
3,941 Posts
You Guys are FanTastic! Keep the info. coming on this I'd sure like to get another MiG-15 with that kind of motor set up.
Thanks,
Pete
mtflyr is offline Find More Posts by mtflyr
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 08:44 AM
Registered User
WURPFEL's Avatar
Swiss
Joined Jan 2004
91 Posts
hi folks

it`s very ammazing to feel the power of lipos and CDR!

the wemotec-device has the plus for faster (outdoor)jets ;-))
with the single cell arrangment it`s a indoor long-duration-device with a large powerplus.
WURPFEL is offline Find More Posts by WURPFEL
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:12 PM
gen
Registered User
gen's Avatar
Salisbury, Maryland
Joined May 2002
32 Posts
FTM,

You got my attention, sounds like just the ticket, but you were a little short of specifics. Like #turns, wire gauge, number of magnets, delta/Y/star wind. To duplicate we need ALL the info.

Paul
gen is offline Find More Posts by gen
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 02:31 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,515 Posts
They mentioned in the post that more info was to come. I think that they were just seting the stage for the new developments.

I spoke to Jerry Small today and he indicated that as soon as the exact motor details are perfected, they will be posted. One crucial part that they are trying to source is the motor mount/bearing holder, which is a machined item.

Also, the Niels thread link in the FTM post is a great source of exact information.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 27, 2004, 03:27 PM
cd brushless motors rule!
niels polfliet's Avatar
Sint-Gillis-Waas, Belgium
Joined Nov 2002
316 Posts
a word from Niels

Hi guys!

Glad to see you're enjoying my motor!

I was going to use my new brushless edf40 fan in my fan-tastic F86, but since i read all this fan-tastic( ) stories about my edf50, i guess i should use that one

For more info and specs of this motor, see my tread, it is the same motor as my first fan (new ring) described on page two.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=140736

Since there is so much attention for the edf50 fans, I'll try to see if i can make it even more efficient using a different winding. The sky is the limit .

see you,
Niels
niels polfliet is offline Find More Posts by niels polfliet
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sold Ftm mig-15 and f-86 sabre darmar Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 6 Oct 10, 2006 09:17 PM
For Sale NIB FTM MIG-15 and F-86 darmar Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 6 Jul 06, 2006 09:12 PM
Fantastic Models Mig 15 and F-86 ttnissan Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 3 Jun 07, 2002 06:13 PM
Whats the latest on the Fantastic Model Mig-15/F-86? mike93 Electric Ducted Fan Jet Talk 11 May 31, 2002 03:11 AM
Cool Fantastic Models Mig 15, F-86??? How much longer?? mike93 Parkflyers 2 Mar 05, 2002 07:34 AM