Discussion A case for bagged wings

[DennisKeith]

I am one of those for whom the process of designing/building is as enjoyable as flying. I have been out of the hobby for some 40 odd years and started back in with some old Zaic Thermic plans that I still have. They look great but leave something to be desired in performance. Now, if I continue, I have to make a decision. Build with wood and enjoy the structure in the sun, the slow gentle flights, and the companionship of birds, or learn a new way cutting foam, bagging wings, and using fiberglass/carbon/kevlar and enjoy flying a plane that can really perform. I have all of the tools to do the first and none to do the second. Any insights, particularly from those who have done both would be great.

Thanks

Dennis Keith

[DLD]

Dennis,

Don't be afraid to jump into the bagging. The tools required are not that different from what you already use. The biggest single item is a vacuum pump, and if you do a little research and scrounging, you can come up with a working unit pretty cheap. Everything else is pretty simple, and not that expensive. You don't have to jump all the way to Kevlar and carbon. You can start with spruce and plywood spars in the foam cores with glass skins. It will be so much stronger than what you've experienced in the past you will be amazed! that way the learning curve won't be as expensive, and if something goes wrong, it doesn't hurt so much. Once you've gotten a few wings under your belt, move up to the more exotic materials. Check out Harley's web site, it's full of good information and advice.
I started out building wood, moved up to bead board covered with balsa skins, then to Obechi skins, followed by fiberglass, kevlar and carbon.

Good luck, and have fun

David Layne

[rdwoebke]

Originally Posted by DennisKeith

I have all of the tools to do the first and none to do the second. Any insights, particularly from those who have done both would be great.

Dennis,

I like to build both built up wings and bagged wings. I'd suggest starting small or doing part of a plane first rather than taking on a huge project. Seems to me a huge project can be a bit intimidating and some people kind of never get even started.

An example could be to take an existing woody plane you might have, buy a set of cores, and then bag a set of wings for it. Or buy a fuselage, buy a set of cores, and bag a wing set. Doing stuff this way starts your project off already half done. Plus starting wtih buying a set of cores means you don't have to learn core cutting and bagging on your first project.

Ryan

[rdeis]

Originally Posted by DennisKeith

Build with wood and enjoy the structure in the sun, the slow gentle flights, and the companionship of birds, or learn a new way cutting foam, bagging wings, and using fiberglass/carbon/kevlar and enjoy flying a plane that can really perform.

If I may- I think that's a false choice. Built up airplanes using more advanced materials in the spars can also "really perform."

Which isn't to discourage you from bagging in the slightest- I'm planning to learn more about those techniques this year myself.

[DLD]

That's very true, RDEIS, a well built wooden structure with the right airfoil can perform very well indeed. If any of you remember Dwight Holley and his Gobbler, I built one and have to say that if one were to build up a sailplane using the same techniques and added modern materials for strength and maybe an updated airfoil, the performance would be impressive, I'm sure. One of my reasons for liking bagged wings is speed, you can get a wing finished and in the air very quickly, especially after you've made a few. This is an advantage over molded planes in that you can try new airfoils, planforms, etc., without having to spend so much time and money on tooling. Also, if your idea doesn't work as well as you'd like, you're not stuck with a useless mold. Just some thoughts to ponder.

David Layne

[schrederman]

I think my reputation as a designer and builder is OK, but I also enjoy the ARF thing, to a point. Like our friend Harley, I enjoyed the days when we had to build to fly. I do believe that innovation suffers from just buying and flying... but I also believe the saying, "To each his own." I don't believe Harley means anything bad by his comments, just as I don't when I kid fellow flyers when I do well with one of my designs, flying against Avas and the other Bubble Dancer clones. We were not all meant to be innovators. Now days, it's a good thing that there are some respectable, even wonderful, ARFs floating around, because there are some good people out flying that wouldn't be flying otherwise. Some are good friends of mine, and I'd rather have them involved than have the builder of the model rule. Yes, I've made some comments about the ARF-only boys, but they know I'm just pulling their chains, so don't take any of this too personally...

I'm about to get into bagging... so hold on to your shorts... I just got some prime pieces of blue and pink foam... fer nuthin'!

Jack Womack

[VHO]

Good to see that not everyone is bagging bagging. Now I've learned to do it, I enjoy it. Almost as much fun as flying.

Hutton

PS is that ambiguous enough for you all?

[Trey4U]

Originally Posted by DLD

If any of you remember Dwight Holley and his Gobbler...

Wow, another deja vu moment. I was a spectator at the F3B world Champs in Sacramento, CA when Dwight won. At the end Dwight was standing and talking with people, the Gobbler was heavy, and he asked me if I would hold it for him. Talk about a groupie in heaven! (compared to my Aquila the Gobbler was HEAVY) I wrote one of the model mags back then telling them what a gentleman he was, very approachable, answering the stupidest of questions and sharing his knowledge with everyone and they printed my letter in the soaring column. I was honored. He passed not long after that and his wife wrote me thanking me for my kind words but no thanks were needed, he was inspiring. In the 40+ years I've been in soaring I've found that glider guiders are the best.