The use of Flaps, Spoilers, and Crow for landing - Page 2

djklein21 · Nov 05, 2009, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by target

It seems that there's some confusion; the discussion involves landing in "rotors" for F3F slope sites, not flat field F3J/TD ladings.
One has little to do with the other, IMO.

R,
Target

+1, the flying technique is different for me in that I keep a lot more airspeed on approach compared to TD, but my setup is pretty much identical.

Zimodile · Nov 05, 2009, 03:16 PM

I only fly slope.

cvanscho · Nov 06, 2009, 11:31 AM

I think there's some further confusion here: some people here are talking about the merits of "Crow" as meaning substantial aeileron "up" together with flaps. I don't believe anyone here is talking about not using flaps for landing a full-house ship

.

satinet · Nov 06, 2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvanscho

I think there's some further confusion here: some people here are talking about the merits of "Crow" as meaning substantial aeileron "up" together with flaps. I don't believe anyone here is talking about not using flaps for landing a full-house ship

.

except the "keep it simple don't use crow" thing in post #6. Maybe he meant don't use up aileron, but do use down flap. I would still call that crow though.

cvanscho · Nov 06, 2009, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satinet

except the "keep it simple don't use crow" thing in post #6. Maybe he meant don't use up aileron, but do use down flap. I would still call that crow though.

My understanding from reading the whole thread today for the first time, is yes, that's what was meant.

Zimodile · Nov 06, 2009, 12:25 PM

Ah right ok making sense now. A few degrees of aileron up is all that's needed. The main sources of drag in the butterly/ crow setting are the lowering of the flaps, and the splitting of the trailing edge between the flaps and the ailerons, which creates two extra sets of tip vortices - lots of drag. So popping the ailerons way up really isn't necessary to create either of those drag sources.

Z

acurusaragon · Nov 10, 2009, 04:24 AM

Anybody can recommend the % of up aileron and % of down flap and % of elevator needed to compensate it? ...... this is the bench setting before throw it to fly ..

Thanks all..

-sam

satinet · Nov 10, 2009, 04:41 AM

hmm,

flaps - lots, aileron, up say 7 or 8mm. Elevator down 3 - 4 mm.

obviously that is a pretty wild statement. I assume 3m ish model with a v-tail.

Tuomo · Nov 10, 2009, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acurusaragon

Anybody can recommend the % of up aileron and % of down flap and % of elevator needed to compensate it? ...... this is the bench setting before throw it to fly ..

Thanks all..

-sam

You can just go flying with the tx menu opened in the mix. Then fly around flaps down and trim plane with elevator mix.

BTW Satinet's idea of raising ailerons 7mm is really "old school".

Zimodile · Nov 11, 2009, 11:32 AM

Tom you old school biffer you!

isoaritfirst · Nov 12, 2009, 05:45 AM

There we go again --

Nothing Old school about Toms approach - it is how we do it when landing on difficult slopes with rotor.
No spot to hit, no smooth air to predict the approach in and a model that has significantly more wing loading than a F3J ship..

Lots of constant adjustment, and significantly probably around a max of 70deg down flap.

Having more flap than this on the slope can often cause more problems, as the model loses it control authority, due to flying too slow.

Most of the approach will be done on around 2/3rd full crow.

I don't mean by that statement that you should necassarilly land fast - just keep the slow bit until the very last second or two.

Nov 06, 2009, 11:31 AM	#18
cvanscho Chris (aka Woodstock) Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Tralee, Co. Kerry, Ireland Posts: 1,806	I think there's some further confusion here: some people here are talking about the merits of "Crow" as meaning substantial aeileron "up" together with flaps. I don't believe anyone here is talking about not using flaps for landing a full-house ship.

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Nov 05, 2009, 03:16 PM	#17
Zimodile Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 430	I only fly slope.

Nov 06, 2009, 12:25 PM	#21
Zimodile Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 430	Ah right ok making sense now. A few degrees of aileron up is all that's needed. The main sources of drag in the butterly/ crow setting are the lowering of the flaps, and the splitting of the trailing edge between the flaps and the ailerons, which creates two extra sets of tip vortices - lots of drag. So popping the ailerons way up really isn't necessary to create either of those drag sources. Z

Nov 10, 2009, 04:24 AM	#22
acurusaragon Registered User Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 104	Anybody can recommend the % of up aileron and % of down flap and % of elevator needed to compensate it? ...... this is the bench setting before throw it to fly .. Thanks all.. -sam

Nov 10, 2009, 04:41 AM	#23
satinet Don't milquetoast me! Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Warwickshire, England Posts: 3,693	hmm, flaps - lots, aileron, up say 7 or 8mm. Elevator down 3 - 4 mm. obviously that is a pretty wild statement. I assume 3m ish model with a v-tail.

Nov 11, 2009, 11:32 AM	#25
Zimodile Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Leicestershire Posts: 430	Tom you old school biffer you!

Nov 12, 2009, 05:45 AM	#26
isoaritfirst Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Not a Brummie/but close Posts: 691	There we go again -- Nothing Old school about Toms approach - it is how we do it when landing on difficult slopes with rotor. No spot to hit, no smooth air to predict the approach in and a model that has significantly more wing loading than a F3J ship.. Lots of constant adjustment, and significantly probably around a max of 70deg down flap. Having more flap than this on the slope can often cause more problems, as the model loses it control authority, due to flying too slow. Most of the approach will be done on around 2/3rd full crow. I don't mean by that statement that you should necassarilly land fast - just keep the slow bit until the very last second or two.