Discussion Mikrokopter / UAVP / quadrocopter / quadrotor build

[FredericG]

Originally Posted by Arthur P.

With respect to the v.0.76 firmware, seemingly the source code will only be available to developers. I-ve asked Holger and Ingo whether they can either add at minimum my two lines of code to allow use of an external HEF40xx circuit to allow use of the roll and tilt function on v1.x FCs. And I would like it if they also added my routine for allowing variable dividers for the motor smoothing function as this has helped tame my heave APMks for me. If they would add me as a developer, I'd happilly do it my self and then just post the hex files only if they prefer that route.

Must say that I find this sudden switch quite disconcerting. I could imagine not making all of the project open source, e.g. keeping the NavControler sourcecode as proprietary, or that for newer hardware you clearly preannounce the intent to target the professional market with that hardware and therefore will keep the firmware proprietary and will no longer guarantee that it will stay fully aligned with the older hardware and firmware. But suddenly just shutting the door is not exactly the "open source" behaviour I would expect, particularly not as much of the current firmware has come from a larger group of developers who did this work in their free time base very much on the open access to the source code and not as part of any particular bussiness endeavour. Think I may well start taking another look at the Arduino based Quadrino project.....

Arthur, I also think this is very unpleasent news.
This has been discussed in a thread? Do you have a link? Do you know how hard it is to be accepted as developer? Please let us know what their response is to your request.

Frederic

[jesolins]

Pete,
What lipo do you use? Is your alarm set? Do you have a loud beeper attached?
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by Itasca

Jim,
I did not load the "!", just updated the firmware. I will do as you suggested. I am using the ME board.
Could this be a battery issue? The battery is fairly new, maybe 15 recharges with a good balancing charger.
Thanks,
Pete

[Arthur P.]

Originally Posted by Djago

Arthur,

Since you have been out for a few weeks.
There's has been an "attack of the clones".
Since you can read German as well I suggest you read up on this issue on the MK forum.
Short: a French/China combo has been cloning MK hardware and Bogoframes.
That sorta p&ssed H&I off.
These clones can be found in the multirotor section of RCG (X-500/X-650).
Now things are more non disclosed for H&I, also there is another thread on the MK forum which suggests the project was never "open" at all (just the software freely available).

Greetz,

Peter

The clones are not unexpected. The first signals were out there already for some time. At the same time the basic multikopter firmware / design can hardly be claimed to be truly proprietary. There are many academic publications out there on the math, design, etc, etc. And there have been several clones out there for some time as well. And even the UAVP and MK were in fact clones --albeit dramitally improved-- of the X-UFO. The added value in the past was that MK were the first to offer a partial or full kit for a reasonably price (and not the "military toilet seat" price of e.g. microdrones), and in reasonably good post-marketing support through the forum sponsored on their site.

Once the multikoters caught on it was fully predictable that clones would rapidly come to market. In fact, Conrad in Germany was probably the first to come out with something like a clone even though their quad does have some very clever design features as well in e.g. the frame with foldable arms.

The real added value of he MK now can only be the more advanced features, i.e. the navicontrol and navigation firmware, the interface between that and the FC firmware, the MKTool, and potentially exceptionally good post-marketing support for users.

I don't have any issue with keeping the navicontroler firmware proprietary. I would also not have an issue if they changed tack on a v3 FC hardware (e.g. an integrated FC + navicontroler with the firmware and sourcecope kept proprietary and with clear notice that they would not further develop or support the v.1 or v.2 sourcecode / firmware). I also would have no issue with good postmarketing support for users.

However suddenly changing tack on existing hardware is imho very strange. And not providing proper customer support --e.g. by implementing the two or three lines of code to allow use of the external HEF40xx interface on v.1.x firmware-- at this time is really not acceptable. The idea for the interface came from Holger. The changed sourcecode and confirmation that it worked has been in the SVN for some time in my branch. Several people have implemented the change and are content flying the v.1 firmware for now. Without continued support and with no proper prewarning, customers tend to quickly do a new inventory of what the market has to offer.

[Arthur P.]

Originally Posted by 13brv3

Hi Arthur,

The US version of the FASST system is 100mw, and the EU is 10mw. As Jim mentioned, I have to believe the power limit applies to Spektrum brand as well, but don't know that for sure.

...

Cheers,
Rusty

That is correct. I do believe the EU has now changed requirements and will now allow the 100mW as well. I wouldn't be able to test because I actually baught my DX7 in the US, so I have the higher powered one.

[FredericG]

...

[FredericG]

Originally Posted by Arthur P.

--e.g. by implementing the two or three lines of code to allow use of the external HEF40xx interface on v.1.x firmware-- at this time is really not acceptable.

What about this "Killagreg Code Redesign" branch. He seems to have published his version of 76e already. Perhaps he will be much more responsive than the very busy H&I and he might be more willing to incorporate your patches.

Frederic

[simonjardine]

Originally Posted by Wojtass_nt

Here is my hexa frame and drome i found today in the shop It fit perfect!
I hope that motors will arrive at Wednesday and next weekend I will do some maiden flights

Looks great where did you find those nice square booms? Are they from the MK shop? What do they weigh? Thanks Simon

Shame about the release of the code change, I guess they had no choice with the release of the crappy Chinese built quads. From what i have read on the forum they do not seem to be doing so well, the X650 will be released soon which will apparently work with the mk tool. You can see when you first load the new tool, it clearly states this software is to be used only with the MK.
I have always hated clones and copy's of copy's, the Chinese are getting better at producing quality stuff. My guess is they will never be even close to the real thing. You get what you pay for

Simon

[Wojtass_nt]

It is made with plastic and I found it in one of Alma supermarkets and painted black from the inside.

[ddrake]

Originally Posted by Arthur P.

...
However suddenly changing tack on existing hardware is imho very strange. And not providing proper customer support --e.g. by implementing the two or three lines of code to allow use of the external HEF40xx interface on v.1.x firmware-- at this time is really not acceptable. The idea for the interface came from Holger. The changed sourcecode and confirmation that it worked has been in the SVN for some time in my branch. Several people have implemented the change and are content flying the v.1 firmware for now. Without continued support and with no proper prewarning, customers tend to quickly do a new inventory of what the market has to offer.

Hi Arthur,
right now the MK forum seems to be not responding so can't provide a link but this is what Ingo wrote a few days ago:

Hallo,

wie man an den Tags im FlightCtrl SVN sehen kann, ist es nicht ungewöhnlich, dass wir zuerst nur die Hex-Files zur Verfügung stellen.
Die wenigen, die die Sourcen wirklich brauchen, können sich mal per Mail melden, bzw. müssen sich noch etwas gedulden....

Gruß,
Ingo

As far as I understand means:

Hello,
as one can see at the tags in the FlightCtrl SVN, is not unusual that we make only the Hex files available at first.
The few, which really need the Source, can ask by mail, and/or must wait some more….
Greeting,
Ingo

seems to me then he's saying 0.76 will be released, just not right now.
Correct me if am wrong though: you know, my German...

Regards

[nikivan]

While I hear about these for the first time, I think it was just a matter of time before they had to appear. As pointed out, the hardware used in MK is pretty generic and anyone could produce the PCBs. Some people would argue the 'original' MK hardware is a bit overpriced. For the money you are paying for ME board you could buy a new notebook, and for the price of the basic kit you could treat yourself with decent flat panel TV. I don't see how keeping the source code private can stop the clones. All you need to use a 'clone' is the hex file, why you would need the source? So, if the hex files continue to be available to the public, 'hiding' the source does not make much sense. I've also read in the German forums, the source will be released soon, so perhaps the commotion is premature. Frankly, I am surprised H&I are still operating this project and not hired, or their small business bough, by some big player working on government contracts. So enjoy the ride while it still lasts

[nikivan]

I've updated one of my MKs to the latest software and I've noticed in the MK tool the parameter Hight Value shows some large negative number. When I raise the MK the number increases (absolute value decreases). Cycling the power does not make any difference. Is this normal?

[zaguruinzasky]

Originally Posted by AZ ChopperCam

Would there be any interest in this 2/3 axis ring gimbal for you guys with Mikrokopters? It is the smallest ring gimbal that I'm aware of. Offers proportional servo control of tilt and roll and non-proportional 360 pan. it can be configured as a 2 axis only with tilt/roll. Up to 100 degrees of tilt travel and about 45 degrees of total roll travel (22 degrees either side of horizontal.) There are 6 ball bearings in the ring. Constructed of G10, Delrin, and Aluminum.

Designed to fit small point and shoot as well as consumer type HD cameras. it is the first of a series of ring gimbals that will be produced by PhotoShip One.

Weight as a 3 axis version is 13 ounces. As 2 axis it is 10 ounces.

No idea on cost yet. email design@photoshipone.com for details.

I just have a doubt about the tilt/roll, when my copter is holding position with some lateral wind (most of the times), the tilt axis in your mount is not perpendicular with the ground so when i'll look down it will acutally move down and left or right depending on the bank of the mikrokopter, am I wrong?

I think we should have the tilt mechanism after the roll and not viceversa. There is a similar problem in the FlyCam3 (with tilt&pan instead of pan&tilt...)

make it this way and it's usable also with airplanes like the Solution, I could buy one for airplane too..

[zaguruinzasky]

I think a good solution could be this:

keep the big ring only, (not the arch above with the Pan), mount the ring under the quadrocopter with 4 elastics, 2 going up left and right to the frame and two going dowl left and right to the landing skids, so here we have a super vibration dampening ( I tested it in Full HD , it's perfect).
Inside the roll ring you built a tilt mechanism and camera platform. Make it a bit bigger and we can use it both with handycams and LX3.

[jesolins]

Nick,
The number is the starting calibration value for your baro. It will be different for everyones/each baro. Your number is not unusual and it looks like it is responding correctly.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by nikivan

I've updated one of my MKs to the latest software and I've noticed in the MK tool the parameter Hight Value shows some large negative number. When I raise the MK the number increases (absolute value decreases). Cycling the power does not make any difference. Is this normal?

[themoog]

Hi Ive just got my first mikrokopter, and im having a hell of a time connecting it to the mikrokopter tool.

First problem is the MK-USB board (I think that's fried though )

Second issue is the bluetooth link, has anyone got any step by steps on how to pair the device with the onboard laptop bluetooth then start speaking to the mikrokopter tool? I'm sure i'm doing something stupid but i'm not too familiar with bluetooth in windows (since going mikrokopter i've had to go back to windows on my macbook pro)

Thanks in advance

Neil