Kinkade Sure-Glide device - Page 20

Tres Wright · Nov 01, 2009, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barneyj

I'm using parts from Traxxas.

Oh those are cool! I'll have to see if the LHS has those. Thanks for the tip!

Quote:

Originally Posted by barneyj

Oh, and I popped a link last week so I'm the trend-setter here

Darn, I can't be first at anything

Well the new YH head is coming along swimmingly, after a couple of coats of primer I shot it with Boyd's "True Blue" which I just happened to have in my stash (I mess around with model cars too). The color is pretty darned close to the body color. I'm going to let it cure a day or two and it'll be ready to glue on and ol' Yardie won't have to go headless anymore

barneyj · Nov 01, 2009, 10:59 PM

Very nice repair job.

Hey Tres, instead of "break a spar" how about "pop a ball"? Haven't done it in a few years, but it would've applied well to mountain biking too!

Kinkade · Nov 02, 2009, 05:54 PM

My shop is incapacitated today as of 10:30 this morning due to an unscheduled and unannounced power disruption so I'm writing from the local library. I tried to work but aside from my cordless drill I was in that silly "reach for something but no juice" syndrome. Lathe won't work, I guess I'll route some parts...DOH! Since I can't work I may as well go get on the treadmill...DOH! It's scary how dependent we are on electricity.

We had to call and find out what was going on and was told it was an all day outage. I wish I could look at it as a day off but I can't. Hopefully power will be back on when I get home.

Thanks for the feedback on the upcoming "Pocket Hawk".

Traxxas ball links are good. You should be able to use them.

Kinkade · Nov 02, 2009, 05:55 PM

That's a dandy looking head piece!

snrek · Nov 02, 2009, 09:32 PM

While my Glide Hawk has been fun and interesting I managed to break another spar! The only thing I did different today was I moved the CG back. I thought it would get better climb out. It was still within the CG range area (I think, see comment on fingers) Sean said to keep it in but I think it was too much and it stalled. It was coming down really fast. It hit so hard it slid the front wing mount forward, causing the fuse to have a large bow in it, only the broken spar though. After I relieved the wing tension the fuse straightened back out, I put the wing mount back in its location and glued it. I have re-arranged my radio gear and new battery so that the CG is more forward. Of course my airplane balancer doesn’t work too well on this model so I am resorting to using my fat fingers so maybe I need to error on the forward side of CG to get it right. I have also toned down the rudder throw. On an earlier flight it looked like full right or left input had no authority and caused it to drop. When I backed off a little it started turning (really large turns but very little drop during the turn) hope I’m on the right track.

Tres Wright · Nov 04, 2009, 09:53 PM

Thanks for the comments on the YH repair

I glued the head on this evening, no more embarrassing "where did your head go?" questions

I was out of town for a few days, but got back today and worked on the Shrike a bit. The stock con rod bolts are 3mm x 6. I bought some 3mm x 8 bolts plus some 3mm flat washers. I put 1 washer between the bolt and ball and 2 washers between the ball and ferrule. That spaces the rods out just a little from the ferrule so that the angle isn't as extreme at the 9:00 position. I was concerned the link would bind on the washers, but it all worked out really well. There is no binding at any position, the washers are big enough to keep the link from popping off and the 3 washers compensate just right for the longer bolts so that they tighten against the balls without grinding into the CF spar inside the ferrule. With this setup I look forward to many years of trouble-free performance from the Shrike, haha! Hopefully I'm not being too optimistic

I hope to test it soon, will report back on how it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barneyj

Very nice repair job.

Hey Tres, instead of "break a spar" how about "pop a ball"? Haven't done it in a few years, but it would've applied well to mountain biking too!

Owww, I don't mountain bike but I've been on enough street bikes to know what you're talking about

Snrek, don't worry, your presidency of the broken spar club is in good standing, at this point you're just showing off

What you're describing on the dropping with large left/ right inputs is something I've definitely noticed on my YH, I've got to be careful not to give it hard rudder input or it loses a lot of altitude. It likes wide turns. The SH turns a lot sharper. I would think your GH would be more like the SH than the YH, but perhaps it's a function of the CG as you suspect. My SH needs a lot of up elevator to keep the turns flat, but it'll turn really tight. Hopefully your GH will fly more like that when you get it dialed in. Good luck!

Kinkade · Nov 04, 2009, 10:34 PM

The reason you get a drop during a turn unless you compensate for it is because when a sharp turn is made, the tail goes from being a horizontal surface to being almost a vertical one. It's like you temporarily lose the horizontal stab in a turn and temporarily gain a rudder (vertical stab)and since you lose the downward force from the tail, the nose tends to drop.
You just have to pull more elevator to help counter this.

Tres Wright · Nov 06, 2009, 08:51 PM

Took the Shrike out and flew it twice this evening. Flew it for around 5 minutes on the 730 TP pack (forgot to start the timer again). Also flew it on a 900 TP pack and did time it that time, landed after 4.5 minutes because it was getting dark. Put 520 back in the pack, so that confirms the 7 amp average draw I determined on the earlier flights. The washer mod seems to be doing the trick, it flew without anything falling off

I did notice that the lower con rod screws were really hot after the flight. I was removing the pack and felt something burning my hand! After touching everything I figured out it was those screws. The upper screws were fine. I may space the lower ones out with washers like I did on the uppers so the angle isn't as extreme. Will also dust some graphite into the links to help lube the joints.

Pack, motor and ESC are coming down just slightly warmer than skin temps, so it looks like the setup is working OK. I still need to drop a couple of teeth off the pinion, haven't had a chance to do that yet. The bird quit pulling left when I moved the paper clip all the way to the right wing tip, but it still has an odd tendency to dive into a left turn while turning flatter to the right. I put the bird in a vise and checked the flap distance, both wings have equal flap distance and wing position relative to horizontal. I also checked the horizontal balance with the clip removed and it looks fine. Not sure why it's pulling.

Kazu-kaku · Nov 08, 2009, 04:16 AM

Flight of SlowHawk 3
Slow Hawk 3 flew well.
Kinkade Sure-Glide device does not yet work well. Regulation of setting is necessary.

Flight of Slow Hawk 3 (2 min 5 sec)

Kinkade · Nov 08, 2009, 03:05 PM

Kazu,

You seem to have been flying is some petty bad air currents going by this video but aside from that, please check to make sure your motor brake is OFF on the ESC. For the Sure-Glide system to work it must be off because the Sure-Glide only works from "Pigeon glide" mode so the wings must be free to go up. If the motor brakes when you throttle down this won't be possible. Going by the wing lock up and spiral dive it looks like your brake may be on.

I have used various brands of ESC's in my kits and I don't recall exactly which one I installed on your Slow Hawk so I am not sure how many beeps indicate brake setting "OFF", when programming the ESC but I'm pretty sure it is either 2 beeps or 3 beeps. I do know there are three setting: 1) full brake on, 2) partial brake on, and 3) brake off.

To first check the motor brake you should loosen the motor mount on the bird and slide the motor back so the pinion does not engage the geartrain. This way you can watch and listen for the motor to slowly wind down to a stop when the brake is off. Snug the motor mount screws down a bit so the motor can't slide back against the delrin gear while you do this otherwise you could acidentally grind your gears. OR, maybe even better, leave the motor mount where it is and simply remove the 2 button head screws that hold the motor to the motor mount and let the motor come completely out. That way when you put the motor back in the gear mesh won't be affected and you won't have to readjust it.

If the motor comes to an abrupt stop when you throttle down, some level of brake setting is on and needs to be turned off.

To program the brake setting off do the following:

Turn transmitter on and put the throttle stick at full high.
Plug in the reciever battery and listen for beeps from the ESC.
It will beep a single beep two times, then a double beep 2 times, then a triple beep two times. The brake OFF setting should be either the double or triple beep setting. I'm not sure which but it doesn't take long to tell.

After the double beep, move the throttle stick down quickly and wait for the ESC to arm with a series of others beeps. Then throttle up and throttle down to see if the brake is off. If this doesn't turn the brake off, unplug the receiver, move the the throttle stick back to high, plug receiver back in and try it again with this time with the triple beep and so on until you manage to get the motor brake setting turned completely off.

I have noticed that my current brushless motor does have pretty strong cogging so the wings do have to have enough force to bring the crank pins to top dead center. The Park Hawk seems to have too small a wing to do this but the Slow Hawk should. The larger birds have no trouble at all.
I may have to find a motor with less cogging for the smaller birds.

barneyj · Nov 09, 2009, 05:55 AM

I finally got a good flight of about 4 minutes on my shrike. But not before starting with a bad launch where I broke my third spar. Hey snrek, have I caught up with you yet?

I commented on the crank bolt getting hot in my earlier post too. This morning, I lubed my balls before taking off. I even lubricated the ball links

. The links on the gear had come off in flight but I used the captured links so it didn't comletely disconnect. Because of the heat and stress, the links are deformed. It won't stay on anymore. I might have to look into allowing the ball link to spin on the crank bolt. I'm thinking about using a long grub screw with a nut to attach it to the crank and jam nuts to retain the ball while allowing it to rotate freely. The Traxxas links I'm using may be too pliable for this application so I'm also looking into aluminum links with permanently fixed balls. I'm not sure they'll allow me the angle needed throughout its rotation. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTPU4&P=7

Kazu-kaku · Nov 09, 2009, 09:14 AM

Hi, Kinkade
In my SH3, motor brakes do not work.

snrek · Nov 09, 2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barneyj

I finally got a good flight of about 4 minutes on my shrike. But not before starting with a bad launch where I broke my third spar. Hey snrek, have I caught up with you yet?

You are getting close….

With the way our weather has been and the latest 7 day forecast I may be grounded for a little longer so you might pass me up!

I commented on the crank bolt getting hot in my earlier post too. This morning, I lubed my balls before taking off. I even lubricated the ball links

. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTPU4&P=7

It is kinda funny if you take what we write out of context. I think I once wrote something like ‘did another mod and my plane is still flying in front of my house’ and someone responded with you better go check on it!

Don't know what to say, I must be getting cabin fever, I started programming my radio for another plane I ordered and I don't even know which way the servors get installed!

snrek · Nov 09, 2009, 04:22 PM

G-LO

I saw in another post that your Glide Hawk is on the way. Please post pics, when you get it. I'm dying to see how the white (see through?) stands out!

G-LO · Nov 09, 2009, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snrek

G-LO

I saw in another post that your Glide Hawk is on the way. Please post pics, when you get it. I'm dying to see how the white (see through?) stands out!

Where you saw that at?!! You'r not foolin me now...are you!?

!!!

Nov 06, 2009, 08:51 PM	#293
Tres Wright Live to ride... and fly! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 13,072	Took the Shrike out and flew it twice this evening. Flew it for around 5 minutes on the 730 TP pack (forgot to start the timer again). Also flew it on a 900 TP pack and did time it that time, landed after 4.5 minutes because it was getting dark. Put 520 back in the pack, so that confirms the 7 amp average draw I determined on the earlier flights. The washer mod seems to be doing the trick, it flew without anything falling off I did notice that the lower con rod screws were really hot after the flight. I was removing the pack and felt something burning my hand! After touching everything I figured out it was those screws. The upper screws were fine. I may space the lower ones out with washers like I did on the uppers so the angle isn't as extreme. Will also dust some graphite into the links to help lube the joints. Pack, motor and ESC are coming down just slightly warmer than skin temps, so it looks like the setup is working OK. I still need to drop a couple of teeth off the pinion, haven't had a chance to do that yet. The bird quit pulling left when I moved the paper clip all the way to the right wing tip, but it still has an odd tendency to dive into a left turn while turning flatter to the right. I put the bird in a vise and checked the flap distance, both wings have equal flap distance and wing position relative to horizontal. I also checked the horizontal balance with the clip removed and it looks fine. Not sure why it's pulling. Last edited by Tres Wright; Nov 06, 2009 at 09:39 PM.

Nov 01, 2009, 10:59 PM	#287
barneyj Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 137	Very nice repair job. Hey Tres, instead of "break a spar" how about "pop a ball"? Haven't done it in a few years, but it would've applied well to mountain biking too!

Nov 02, 2009, 05:54 PM	#288
Kinkade Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 193	My shop is incapacitated today as of 10:30 this morning due to an unscheduled and unannounced power disruption so I'm writing from the local library. I tried to work but aside from my cordless drill I was in that silly "reach for something but no juice" syndrome. Lathe won't work, I guess I'll route some parts...DOH! Since I can't work I may as well go get on the treadmill...DOH! It's scary how dependent we are on electricity. We had to call and find out what was going on and was told it was an all day outage. I wish I could look at it as a day off but I can't. Hopefully power will be back on when I get home. Thanks for the feedback on the upcoming "Pocket Hawk". Traxxas ball links are good. You should be able to use them.

Nov 02, 2009, 05:55 PM	#289
Kinkade Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 193	That's a dandy looking head piece!

Nov 02, 2009, 09:32 PM	#290
snrek Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 318	While my Glide Hawk has been fun and interesting I managed to break another spar! The only thing I did different today was I moved the CG back. I thought it would get better climb out. It was still within the CG range area (I think, see comment on fingers) Sean said to keep it in but I think it was too much and it stalled. It was coming down really fast. It hit so hard it slid the front wing mount forward, causing the fuse to have a large bow in it, only the broken spar though. After I relieved the wing tension the fuse straightened back out, I put the wing mount back in its location and glued it. I have re-arranged my radio gear and new battery so that the CG is more forward. Of course my airplane balancer doesn’t work too well on this model so I am resorting to using my fat fingers so maybe I need to error on the forward side of CG to get it right. I have also toned down the rudder throw. On an earlier flight it looked like full right or left input had no authority and caused it to drop. When I backed off a little it started turning (really large turns but very little drop during the turn) hope I’m on the right track.

Nov 04, 2009, 10:34 PM	#292
Kinkade Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 193	The reason you get a drop during a turn unless you compensate for it is because when a sharp turn is made, the tail goes from being a horizontal surface to being almost a vertical one. It's like you temporarily lose the horizontal stab in a turn and temporarily gain a rudder (vertical stab)and since you lose the downward force from the tail, the nose tends to drop. You just have to pull more elevator to help counter this.

Nov 08, 2009, 03:05 PM	#295
Kinkade Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 193	Kazu, You seem to have been flying is some petty bad air currents going by this video but aside from that, please check to make sure your motor brake is OFF on the ESC. For the Sure-Glide system to work it must be off because the Sure-Glide only works from "Pigeon glide" mode so the wings must be free to go up. If the motor brakes when you throttle down this won't be possible. Going by the wing lock up and spiral dive it looks like your brake may be on. I have used various brands of ESC's in my kits and I don't recall exactly which one I installed on your Slow Hawk so I am not sure how many beeps indicate brake setting "OFF", when programming the ESC but I'm pretty sure it is either 2 beeps or 3 beeps. I do know there are three setting: 1) full brake on, 2) partial brake on, and 3) brake off. To first check the motor brake you should loosen the motor mount on the bird and slide the motor back so the pinion does not engage the geartrain. This way you can watch and listen for the motor to slowly wind down to a stop when the brake is off. Snug the motor mount screws down a bit so the motor can't slide back against the delrin gear while you do this otherwise you could acidentally grind your gears. OR, maybe even better, leave the motor mount where it is and simply remove the 2 button head screws that hold the motor to the motor mount and let the motor come completely out. That way when you put the motor back in the gear mesh won't be affected and you won't have to readjust it. If the motor comes to an abrupt stop when you throttle down, some level of brake setting is on and needs to be turned off. To program the brake setting off do the following: Turn transmitter on and put the throttle stick at full high. Plug in the reciever battery and listen for beeps from the ESC. It will beep a single beep two times, then a double beep 2 times, then a triple beep two times. The brake OFF setting should be either the double or triple beep setting. I'm not sure which but it doesn't take long to tell. After the double beep, move the throttle stick down quickly and wait for the ESC to arm with a series of others beeps. Then throttle up and throttle down to see if the brake is off. If this doesn't turn the brake off, unplug the receiver, move the the throttle stick back to high, plug receiver back in and try it again with this time with the triple beep and so on until you manage to get the motor brake setting turned completely off. I have noticed that my current brushless motor does have pretty strong cogging so the wings do have to have enough force to bring the crank pins to top dead center. The Park Hawk seems to have too small a wing to do this but the Slow Hawk should. The larger birds have no trouble at all. I may have to find a motor with less cogging for the smaller birds.

Nov 09, 2009, 05:55 AM	#296
barneyj Registered User Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 137	I finally got a good flight of about 4 minutes on my shrike. But not before starting with a bad launch where I broke my third spar. Hey snrek, have I caught up with you yet? I commented on the crank bolt getting hot in my earlier post too. This morning, I lubed my balls before taking off. I even lubricated the ball links . The links on the gear had come off in flight but I used the captured links so it didn't comletely disconnect. Because of the heat and stress, the links are deformed. It won't stay on anymore. I might have to look into allowing the ball link to spin on the crank bolt. I'm thinking about using a long grub screw with a nut to attach it to the crank and jam nuts to retain the ball while allowing it to rotate freely. The Traxxas links I'm using may be too pliable for this application so I'm also looking into aluminum links with permanently fixed balls. I'm not sure they'll allow me the angle needed throughout its rotation. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTPU4&P=7

Nov 09, 2009, 09:14 AM	#297
Kazu-kaku K Kakuta Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 200	Hi, Kinkade In my SH3, motor brakes do not work.

Nov 09, 2009, 04:22 PM	#299
snrek Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oregon City, Oregon Posts: 318	G-LO I saw in another post that your Glide Hawk is on the way. Please post pics, when you get it. I'm dying to see how the white (see through?) stands out!