Thread: New Product Spektrum DX8 & DX10
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Old Mar 06, 2011, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by aerocal View Post
Sorry but now you really kind of lost me. I asked if there was any testing.You say "Scientifically no".
That was specific to the question you asked "What Im trying to understand as I read all the "issue reports" is whether anyone has confirmed that it is not a power issue"

Scientifically, I can't prove this not to be the case YET. I'm pretty sure it isn't but until I do some logging I can't be sure. You can read my first post #4615 which shows how the power was changed and the use of a flight battery to power the system so I don't think there is a power problem.

But previously stated that there is "enough documentation" to show a problem with specific combos of equipment.I replay ths game regularly at my local field.Im not sure what you are expecting HH to do.I hear the no official admission of a problem from HH arguement constantly.Then it goes into the psuedo conspiracy theories and arguements back and forth based on speculation.This gets absolutely nowhere and only compounds and further masks what the actual "issue" is.
Well for starters I'd love to hear that HH is looking into this specific problem. I'll call it a "problem" because it's happened enough from the reports that it is a problem. It could turn out to be a HH problem or a user/setup/equipment problem but it's a problem non the less for many.
I have seen a response from HH on alot of the problems ppl have when they are screaming "lockout". It is always "ensure your system is supplied with adequate power to prevent the system from "brownout".Then the arguements start."it is fine with my other radio" "its been fine for 2 years until now" "Ive done testing and it isnt my setup" etc etc.
If theres a problem you absolutely must do some actual scientific testing and/or logging to confirm your stance.
I do not disagree with what you say here. It can very well be a self-induced problem/issue. BUT, it's happened to many. The problem of safety still remains. When you have an aircraft that flies perfect with other different radios and you then go out and purchase a newer/better radio that last thing anyone thinks about is if the aircraft is flight worthy. They already "know" this to be the case. All they do is re-bind to the new transmitter and then the problems occur for some people (with 6200s). No expects a new transmitter to "bring out" a problem with their existing equipment that has been working (sometimes for years) without a problem. This is the major issue on my mind.

Like I said before all of this really disturbs me.ALOT.I fly AR600,6100,6110,6200,7000,7100,7100R,8000,9000.DX7 for the last 3 years.DX8 for about 6 months now(Since Aug when they were released).When I first started with 2.4 Spektrum 3 years ago the whole brownout issue was ugly.It still is.IMO it has fueled the whole BrandF vs BrandS fire.It made my head spin.Being the scientific tinkering type I am a BIG question mark loomed over me.How the heck am I going to figure all this out myself? I bought an eagletree data monitor.I can plug it into the PC and have realtime data on the bench for setup or stick it in the plane during flights to see exactly what is going on with voltage/amperage at any specific point in the system.

Lets just say that what I discovered was enlightening to say the least.Assumptions about what you think is going on in a setup especially helis are for the most part tossed out the window.I explained all this in previous posts on various threads on different forums and it doesnt get very far but Ill just say one thing I know for a FACT.Without testing that a specific application is going to work without browning out your on a wing and a prayer like I can bet at least half of todays modelers are.I see more often than not HH testing returned Rxs and saying they check out fine.They test them to specs.
I agree with everything you just said. I too am going down the logging route to try and get to the bottom of the issue. However, everyone/most aren't like us. They won't go down this road. Many in fact would have no clue how to do it. BUT no one should have to do this. When you have a system that works with one transmitter and upgrade to a better/compatible transmitter it should still work. When it doesn't work 100% of the time it's a problem.

Does anyone honestly believe they know something we arent supposed to know or are afraid to admit and are lying? Lets be realistic here.
I'm not touching this. I don't want to go down this road.
What really needs to happen is that it is tested in the actual application.Are you going to ship your entire model to HH and have them test the setup?
Is that their responsibilty? IMO and from my experience I tend to believe if they were aware of a confirmed safety issue with any specific combination of equipment they would notify us immediately.

I know Im repeating myself but my experience helping others has shown 99.9some% of the time that for one reason or another their 2.4 "lockout" problem is directly related to brownout/voltage sag at the Rx bus.For any number of reasons.#1 actual problem I see is Plug and Pray for example a 6amp BEC and in operation with high load on everything the system is using maybe 4 amps.But at 2amps the voltage starts dropping and at 4 its precariously close to 3 volts at the bus.What does this mean? It means the BEC or lead or connector or switch or something is certainly not providing 6amps of your specified voltage to the Rx bus.IMO if it has crashed this is the direct cause.If it hasnt it is going to.
You very well may be right. But this still doesn't get around the safety concern. An aircraft running a 6200 with a DX5/DX6i/DX7 that is upgraded to a DX8 should not have a concern and shouldn't have to go pulling teath to find a "new problem" they never had before. The aircraft (receiver and complete system) should continue to perform the same as it previously did. It should not exhibit new characteristics or the new transmitter (ie DX8) isn't really truly compatible.
Ok this whole thing is rather entertaining to me in a way.Im not being combative Im just pissy that it is raining today and I cant fly.
So Ill comment on club politics for a sec and try to stay on topic.If we are going to talk about banning something at a club then lets talk about banning all aircraft that are not setup with basic testing procedures to assure the electrical supply system is adequate for whatever it is being expected to do.
It is funny to me because this discussion has come up before.At our local club here Id say that probably would ban well over half of the aircraft at the field if not substantially more.Of the ones not tested my experience shows that probably 75% of those if tested are likely marginal.So if your going to draw a line is it going to be based on hype and hysteria or science?Id say our club is pretty typical of an old 200+ member AMA gold club.Why I go there sometimes is beyond me when I have my own private field to fly without all the club hysteria and drama.I guess thats part of what I like about to hobby though.We are all different and we help each other out in one way or another.
We do this at our club for anything bigger then 60 size planes. All helis are checked out. We also have a strict heli program in place based on IRCHA. No one flies helis at our field without passing a certain level. No flying helis at all (besides hover practice) until you pass level 1. Then you can fly the routines in level 2 but nothing more then this until you pass level 2. Nothing bigger then a 600 until you pass level 3. This prevents people from going out and doing tic-tocs and stuff when they aren't ready for it and loosing control. Getting past level 2 of the IRCHA PPP program is not hard. If someone can't do those maneuvers they don't belong doing 3D anyway. Foundation first.

Many would say they would never fly at a club like this but because of the help we give and the instruction programs we have in place PLUS the SAFETY we take into consideration we are growing really fast. Nothing is dictated from the top down. Everything is done by the membership at large. Our particular club happens to put safety above everything else. Our members are all super friendly and helpful. We don't have clicks and we welcome everything. Planes, jets, helis. Putting safety first does not have to be restrictive if done correctly!

Now back to topic.
So far Ive been very fortunate.No unexplained inflight loss of control problem on anything I have setup.Ive had my share of failures for dozens of reasons.None that werent traced to a component other than the Tx/Rx.Maybe Im lucky and Im not saying there havent been or wont be isolated cases where everything else has been ruled out.I have seen a few of those personally but I can count them on the fingers of one hand and they are spread across various manufacturers so Ill not say more.They do get quickly sorted.I have seen hundreds immediately blamed on the "faulty Tx/Rx" with no actual testing to rule out the setup.

In a nutshell Yes I think I may probably be right about "marginal setup".This is what my experience has shown with actual hard data testing equipment.
My DX8 is fine so far.Theres always the evolution of programming but nothing that makes it unsafe to fly.Look at what it is and what we used to have.Its a dang computer.Alot of the guys at our field can barely program a VCR and run away screaming when you say laptop or dongle. Yet they get a radio like ths and complain when it doesnt magically make everything work perfectly when you just plug everything in and turn it on?

Hey the rain stopped and its getting brighter outside.Thanks for letting me waste your time blabbering.In done...going flying.
Hey, I enjoyed your post. I've never had glitches before that I couldn't narrow down to some component going bad or of course a dumb-thumb pilot error (happens to the best of us). This one just has me baffled (for now) and concerned.
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Last edited by cayars; Mar 06, 2011 at 05:18 PM.
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