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        Discussion Possible to fly NAZA M without ever using manual?

#1 Tim Green Feb 01, 2013 10:41 AM

Possible to fly NAZA M without ever using manual?
 
Is it possible to fly the NAZA M, without ever using manual mode?

I'm learning to fly using another flight controller, the APM 2.5, which they say you have to learn how to fly manually, before you can even try the other modes. IOW, you have to learn to control throttle while also controlling pitch, roll, yaw and orientation (flying with nose pointed in different directions) before you can use the more user friendly modes. I'm at the point where I can hover and move about a bit, but only when the nose is pointed away from me - just starting to learn to fly with the nose pointed other directions.

I'm asking because I'm thinking of getting a NAZA M, and putting that on my F450 frame rather than what I'm learning on today, if the NAZA M is really that easy to use. IOW, if the NAZA M allows you to stop and let go of the sticks, and think before you make your next move.

#2 kallend Feb 01, 2013 11:14 AM

Certainly possible to FLY one. You do need manual mode during the setup, though.

#3 init6 Feb 01, 2013 11:14 AM

In a word yes. Make sure you fly in a large open area and it will quite happily hover. I might move around a bit, but some stick work will soon get that sorted. I don't have the GPS so fly in ATTI. I suspect the GPS will be even easier.

#4 RTRyder Feb 01, 2013 11:46 AM

There is absolutely no reason why you can't fly the APM2.5 in stable mode other than you would want to also fly in manual initially to get the PID settings right. Once that's done fly it in stable with or without altitude hold, as long as the PID tuning is close enough that its controllable and not oscillating wildy in flight then you're Ok to fly. I find that manual mode on my APM 2.5 isn't all that different than stable mode so you won't really see a huge difference unless your parameter settings are way off in one or both modes.

A Naza can be flown in any mode you like, I fly all three of mine in atti mode 99% of the time mainly because they're all on FPV quads that I record video from using GoPros and I find atti is the least jello prone mode to fly in. You can also fly one in GPS mode all the time but it will tend to fight you wanting to stay in one place while using atti will give you the same stability but much smoother on roll and pitch movement as its not trying to keep itself in one place.

Now that I have an APM pretty much dialed in on a FlipFPV frame I've found that it easily matches the Naza for altitude hold and position hold and in calmer air actually works better. The only real difference is the APM takes a lot more time and patience to get through the initial setup and tuning, once that's done it will do everything a Naza will do and then some for a lot less $.

To answer your question, either controller can hold position while you get your orientation right but it's a bit easier with the Naza since position hold is just that on the APM, it doesn't want to fly around in loiter mode whereas you can with the Naza and it will stop and stay put wherever it is when you let go of the sticks.

#5 Tim Green Feb 01, 2013 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kallend (Post 24001173)
Certainly possible to FLY one. You do need manual mode during the setup, though.

Is manual mode required during setup, for tuning other modes besides manual? IOW, if one doesn't fly manual, does one need to tune it?

#6 RTRyder Feb 01, 2013 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Green (Post 24001665)
Is manual mode required during setup, for tuning other modes besides manual? IOW, if one doesn't fly manual, does one need to tune it?

Manual mode should be setup and tuned first since all other modes are layered on top of the stability of manual mode. If it's not stable and flying well in manual it won't fly well in any of the other modes either and that's true for just about any flight controller system.

#7 vartaz Feb 01, 2013 12:53 PM

I only set up manual on mine to get the compass calibrated and test it out, after that i configured it to have gps, atti, rth on my 3position switch.. i fly fpv so i dont need manual mode for anything, it can easyer go wrong when in manual :-)

#8 Tim Green Feb 01, 2013 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTRyder (Post 24001909)
Manual mode should be setup and tuned first since all other modes are layered on top of the stability of manual mode. If it's not stable and flying well in manual it won't fly well in any of the other modes either and that's true for just about any flight controller system.

Would the NAZA's stock quad tuning params work as is with their stock F450 frame, ESCs and motors?

#9 Tim Green Feb 01, 2013 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RTRyder (Post 24001909)
Manual mode should be setup and tuned first since all other modes are layered on top of the stability of manual mode. If it's not stable and flying well in manual it won't fly well in any of the other modes either and that's true for just about any flight controller system.

You sure? Cause NAZA manual says to do the first test flights and gain tuning in atti mode, not manual mode. page 33 - http://download.dji-innovations.com/..._Manual_en.pdf

#10 dartmouth01 Feb 02, 2013 02:52 AM

With the Naza, you shouldn't ever need to go into MAN mode during flight. You'll need to have access to MAN mode during set up, so you can do the compass/gps calibration, but thats done with the unit sitting still (you move it around).

The gains settings make a big difference in the way the craft will react, and I found that I can make the GPS mode react alot better by dialing down the ATTI gains. I'm planning on making a tutorial video on how the gains settings affect handling sometime soon, but after having figured that out, my aerial footage is starting to look alot better.

#11 Tim Green Feb 02, 2013 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dartmouth01 (Post 24008628)
With the Naza, you shouldn't ever need to go into MAN mode during flight. You'll need to have access to MAN mode during set up, so you can do the compass/gps calibration, but thats done with the unit sitting still (you move it around).

The gains settings make a big difference in the way the craft will react, and I found that I can make the GPS mode react alot better by dialing down the ATTI gains. I'm planning on making a tutorial video on how the gains settings affect handling sometime soon, but after having figured that out, my aerial footage is starting to look alot better.

Thanks for the clarification.

#12 nfhill Feb 02, 2013 04:58 PM

As long as the NAZA fully works, you're probably OK. But what do you do when some part of it stops working well? Personally, I think anyone that flys anything should start by learning basic flying skills with a minimal FC. An out of control multi that can Carry a NAZA is a killing machine.

The very best FC'ers ever made also fail sometimes. Instead of choosing to be like the pilots of an Airbus that killed several hundred people because they were so dependent on their FC that they forgot how to fly, wouldn't it be better to actually know how to fly the aircraft?

#13 Tahoe Ed Feb 02, 2013 05:07 PM

The point RT was trying to make is if the copter is not balanced well or the arms are slightly tweaked then it will show up in Manual. The controller will mask a lot of these ills until a motor burns out or an esc connector fails and the owner goes, it just quit! Well the root cause was probably a poor mechanical set up. RT takes his time and balances everything, so do I. I have very few problems because of that. Try it some time it works well. When was the last time you checked all the motors when you landed and were they all the same temp. If not you have a problem.

#14 Tim Green Feb 03, 2013 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nfhill (Post 24013935)
As long as the NAZA fully works, you're probably OK. But what do you do when some part of it stops working well? Personally, I think anyone that flys anything should start by learning basic flying skills with a minimal FC. An out of control multi that can Carry a NAZA is a killing machine.

The very best FC'ers ever made also fail sometimes. Instead of choosing to be like the pilots of an Airbus that killed several hundred people because they were so dependent on their FC that they forgot how to fly, wouldn't it be better to actually know how to fly the aircraft?

Or dial it back another step, remove the accelerometers and gyros, and fly like a real man :eek:

Anyway, manual mode won't always save your butt. Too often control is lost to the point where a switch in modes won't help. Where nothing helps.

What's really needed is a quad that won't collide with things and that stays put when the hands are off the controls. Anyone could fly that safely - even a blind person. ;)

I'm pleasantly surprised to find out how very pilot friendly the NAZA M is. I'm learning to fly on an APM 2.5 flying in stabilize - and it wants to wander if I take my hands off the stick (yeah - I'm tuning it). There is an APM acro mode, similar to NAZA's manual mode - but the APM manual says acro is for experts, and says stabilize mode is for normal flight and as well as being the suggested goto recovery mode.

NAZA manual and APM acro modes are becoming specialty modes.

#15 dartmouth01 Feb 04, 2013 01:19 PM

Here's my first pass at a tutorial explaining gain settings on the naza and how they affect flight. First part is how to pair the gain settings to dials on a controller (specifically Turnigy 9X), start at the 10 min mark to see different gain settings in flight.

Naza Gains Settings How-To and Effects during flight (14 min 9 sec)


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