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        Discussion Brodak Smoothie Questions???

#1 Ah Clem Nov 29, 2012 09:34 AM

Brodak Smoothie Questions???
 
I have a Broadak Smoothie on the way.

I would welcome any information with regard to what length and gauge of lines, recommendations on engines, fuel tanks, etc. Also, I am not sure what hardware comes in the kit (it is the pre-covered ARF version).

Any information regarding anything else that should be done to it, outside of what the instructions recommend, would be very welcome too (I have read that beefing up the landing gear mounting and, possibly, the bellcrank support, is necessary.

Thank you all in advance.

#2 The Kiwi Nov 29, 2012 02:40 PM

From the top, the design that Bob Palmer flew in the early 1950s was a different plane from the one that Gil Henry kitted at Veco (and provided the plans for when a magazine article was prepared). The Veco kit's bellcrank mount is the one (TTBOMK) that needed beefing up. The only really specific change that affected flying was most detrimental -- the airfoil high point was moved, and the airfoil thickness was reduced.

Most of the period's suggested LG mounting methods left much to be desired. I have flown a couple of Smoothies built from Veco's kits; I wasn't well impressed (on the other hand, they weren't 'awful", just nowhere close to matching the good looks of the design). At this date, I have not built or flown the Brodak version, which was certified by Palmer to have been exactly the same as his own plane's design had been before the Gil Henry changes.


Kiwi

#3 Ah Clem Nov 29, 2012 07:19 PM

Thank you for the information, sir!

Does anyone know if an O.S. .46 LA would fit in the Smoothie and if would be a good engine for it?

Thank you all again!

#4 Ah Clem Nov 30, 2012 02:42 PM

Well, sometime, very late last night, I remembered that I had a Thunder Tiger .39H that only has about 30 flights on it-so I have an engine.

I ordered 60' lines and a handle, today.

I have fuel.

Now on a quest for a muffler.

The airplane should arrive in the middle of next week, so I should be able to start assembly.

#5 The Kiwi Nov 30, 2012 06:33 PM

Bob Palmer worked at Veco, and often used the engines that Veco sold. The first Veco engines were designed by John Brodbeck, Sr, and were very similar to the first K&B Torpedo engines. Each company sold a 29 and a slightly larger engine, a "32" Torp, and a "31" Veco. The Smoothie had a Veco .29 in it, with about the same power output as an OS Max FP 20.

It is somewhat small for engines as large as a modern Schneurle ported 40, and I would not suggest a modern engine larger than a 28, unless you want to put lead in the tail to balance a heavy, over powerful engine. An LA 25 is about right.


K.

#6 Norm Furutani Dec 01, 2012 02:37 AM

The yellow Smoothie (Don's) you saw last week, I'm pretty sure has an Evolution .36. Tongue muffler and a custom venturi with a traditional front needle replacing the rear, remote needle. Total weight was 35oz. Not sure about mods to the plane.

Lines are 58' x .015. Fuel is a custom blend, castor/synth 22%, 10% nitro.

Hulan's (Blue) is similar with a modern .35/.36.

Don's our Guru and will steer you straight!

- Norm

#7 pmackenzie Dec 01, 2012 06:39 AM

Leonard at Stuka Stunt sells a lot of different mufflers. Email him for more info.

http://www.clstunt.com/products.htm

Are you sure the heli motor works well in stunt mode? It would normally run at much higher RPM.

Pat MacKenzie

#8 Ah Clem Dec 01, 2012 12:07 PM

Thank you, Norm.

I will grill Don thoroughly this coming Friday!

pmackenzie,

As far as the helicopter motor goes, I will find out. I happened to have it, already so I thought it was worth a try. If not, I will go with something more conventional. It should have good torque, but I am not sure about the RPM, so you may be right on that sir.

In my old stuff, I found a K & B .40 R/C, that had been a great running motor, until a friend of mine drove it straight into the blacktop on my old Red Zephyr (may it rest in pieces) around 1982 (very nice bend in the crankshaft). I also found a McCoy series 21 .40 R/C, which was an S.O.B. to start. There is another Series 21 .40 (the U/C version) on my old Midwest P-63, but I would just as soon leave that entire airplane in tact.

Each of the Series 21 .40's weighs slightly more than my automobile does...

The Kiwi,

Thank you for the information. I will check the balance of the Smoothie, and if that is too far out with the TT .39 that will give me an excuse to purchase a new engine.

What I would really like is an O.S. .35 stunt from about 1975-1980, but I have only found used ones, so far on Ebay.

#9 LA Ming Dec 01, 2012 12:14 PM

The O.S. would be an excellent engine.

I think the Smoothie was originally designed for a Fox 35 Stunt. So, shopping eBay and reading/looking carefully, you should be able to pick up a vintage Fox 35 Stunt very reasonably priced.

Best of luck whatever you decide!

#10 pmackenzie Dec 01, 2012 12:19 PM

Aerotigre 36 and Brodak 40 are quite common modern engines on classic models.
You need something light, since they were often originally designed around 6-7 ounce motors with no mufflers.
(The Aerotigre is expensive, but they do run well)

Of course you could always run a Fox 35:)

Pat MacKenzie

#11 pmackenzie Dec 01, 2012 12:23 PM

For the OS35, there is a guy setting up to make P/L sets for them, so a used one could be made almost new again.:)

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcb...d=379271&page=

#12 pmackenzie Dec 01, 2012 12:29 PM

One more data point on the Aerotigre - look at who was using in them in this list of flyers and models. You would be in good company:)

http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/user_files/16936.html

(This was just something Google turned up- looks like a VSC results page)

#13 The Kiwi Dec 01, 2012 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmackenzie (Post 23412743)
Aerotigre 36 and Brodak 40 are quite common modern engines on classic models.
You need something light, since they were often originally designed around 6-7 ounce motors with no mufflers.
(The Aerotigre is expensive, but they do run well)

Of course you could always run a Fox 35:)

The Veco 29, the original one of 1951/1954, weighed six ounces, the same as a Fox 29 or 35 did at the time. A Bodak 40 is almost that light, and runs nicely with mufflers of whatever sort. Many older engines either don't run particularly well using a muffler, or have too flexible of a case to safely and conveniently run any "clamp-on" types that strap around the bypass area (which easily distorts and passes the distortion through to the cylinder if applied tightly, or allows the clamp to slip off if only an "ordinary" tightness is applied.

So, either the muffler comes loose, or the piston to cylinder roundness is damaged. The same thing happened with Forsters, McCoys from pre-Testors years, and another, but which it was eludes me. The RH McCoys from Testors didn't have that problem, nor did the Max-S / Max-H engines from OS. I did run some Tatone mufflers on those old Foxes, however, with a trick clamp.

The Penn Reel company produced a series of excellent salt water reels that I was using in the 1960s / 1970s at the coast, while we lived in Houston. To add more rigidity to reel clamps on heavy duty rods, you could add a supplementary clamp, and the strap was perfect for a muffler. Instead of a narrow band of steel, you got a wide saddle piece that spread the clamping force along the entire side of the bypass area.

I used those pieces with any old engines that didn't come with muffler mounting ears on the exhaust stack, including Foxes with the upper / lower muffler stud additions, before they added the skinny, too flimsy little mounting ears (which I modified with that metallic epoxy type stuff). .


Kiwi

#14 Ah Clem Dec 01, 2012 03:36 PM

Well,

I just found an O.S. .40 stunt on ebay and grabbed it so, hopefully that will take care of the motor situation.

The Kiwi,

Thank you for the very interesting post on motors. I always look forward to reading about the various engines/options, past and present!

#15 N99JH Dec 01, 2012 04:28 PM

4 Attachment(s)
I bought the Smoothie ARF from Brodak about 3 months ago, and, I currently fly it exclusively, 21 flights so far and it is a hoot! Just a plain wonderful airplane. I am a "Retread" - getting back into CL after 32 years away in RC world and I cannot praise the Smoothie enough as a great plane to learn / re-learn stunt. Mine is flying with a Fox 35 which is absolutely perfect for the Smoothie. It runs like it is on a mission to please. I have a 10-6 APC propeller, the fuel tank is just what Brodak calls for, fuel is Power Master GMA 5/29. My lines are .015 braided steel and as far as I remember they are about 56' from the handle to the centerline of the airplane. The only weak area that I and others found is the landing gear attachment plate to the fuselage, it needs a little bit of reinforcing. Other than that - the kit is complete with all the hardware necessary. Since I bought the ARF which is covered with some plastic iron on film - I sprayed a couple coats of clearkote and so far does not seem to have any fuel and oil residue trying to attack the film. If you have any questions, please PM or call. I absolutely love my Smoothie and am sure that you will love yours:)
Joshua


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