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        Discussion What am I missing here?

#1 aphily8ed Nov 15, 2012 05:55 PM

What am I missing here?
 
I have been flying on a sim for some time now in anticipation of buying my first plane. I had the sim set up for 4 channel operation, and thought I was doing quite well with it. I am getting a lot of advice on here about starting with a 3 channel plane like the super cub, so I figured I should set up my sim for 3 channel. Boy was I in for a shock. I found it much harder to control the plane with a rudder as apposed to ailerons.

Now I wonder if I was piloting the plane "properly" while I was in 4 channel mode. I mostly never used the rudder except for taxiing. I found it extremely easy to make turns with just aileron and elevator control and pretty much not touch the rudder. With a little practice I am now able to perform a pretty decent turn with rudder and elevator, but it is still much more difficult than with 4 channel. I always thought 4 channel was something you aspired to only after learning 3 channel.

Do you guys turn your real planes with rudder and elevator, or do you turn them the way I did on the sim with ailerons and elevator?

#2 MrMention Nov 15, 2012 06:04 PM

I dont always use rudder unless its for taxing and landing if I have to line up with the runway, but when I do use in flight it usually if I'm doing scale flying with my Cessna , C47 or my PBY Catalina. Basically planes which are not meant to flown sporty even though I dont always follow that rule.

With certain planes, using rudder only will drop the nose, but using rudder and ailerons can make your turns look nice and scale. And rudder and ailerons are used in real flight

#3 easyrider604 Nov 15, 2012 06:09 PM

I learned on a 4-channel and had no problems really. I do have a HZ Supercub which I used as a re-trainer when I returned to RC flying earlier this year, and have no problems either.

Sure you can turn with ailerons and elevator. Should be good for 98% of the time.
I only use the rudder for ground steering/taxiing, keeping her straight on the take-off run or coasting after touch down, stall turns, sometimes during four point rolls and if really necessary, for sideslipping onto the runway.

If you are fine with 4 channels on the sim, you should be good to go on an aileron trainer. IMO, the biggest benefit of a sim is getting the pilot used to orientation whichever way the plane is heading, towards or away from you. The sim also teaches the pilot to not overcontrol or freeze on the sticks which commonly cause a real model to stall or spin into the ground.

#4 aphily8ed Nov 15, 2012 06:24 PM

It wasn't that I was having problems with the 4 channel. In fact I was doing quite well. But if I go with the overwhelming advise to get a super cub first, I will (at least initially) be limited to 3 channels. I was just surprised to find how much more difficult it was to steer with 3 rather than with 4 channels. For some reason I thought the opposite was true.

#5 aphily8ed Nov 15, 2012 06:26 PM

Can you tell me what a good aileron trainer might be?

#6 MrMention Nov 15, 2012 06:34 PM

If you can start with a 4 ch plane. You'll save yourself some re-learning time later

#7 Chatenever Nov 15, 2012 06:46 PM

Just a thought,.... when you changed the sim from 4ch to 3ch, did you move the rudder to the right stick where the aileron used to be? If you didn't, I can understand why it was harder (you needed to use both sticks to turn). If you switch the rudder to the aileron stick on the right, you really shouldn't notice too much difference.
Personally, I do not subscribe to the idea that it is easier to start with a three channel plane. Most people only use the right stick anyway on their first 4-channel plane, and accomplish turns with the "yank and bank" movement. The four channel is easier (IMO) because the plane responds to an aileron input more quickly than a rudder input. On the other hand, when you slow down for landing, aileron is the first control surface to stall (become ineffective), while rudder is the last control surface to stall.

#8 Chatenever Nov 15, 2012 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aphily8ed (Post 23279329)
Can you tell me what a good aileron trainer might be?

I suspect that I'll get flamed for giving this advice, but after you've learned to fly your first plane, I'd recommend a dumbed-down 3D foamy. Have an experienced pilot set the throws on the control surfaces so that it is smooth and docile. Increase the throws as you gain experience. It steers like a hose, and goes wherever you point it.

#9 aphily8ed Nov 15, 2012 07:12 PM

No, I didn't change the rudder to the right side. I figured on a real Tx I wouldn't be able to do that so I just thought I had to learn it with rudder on left.

#10 porcia83 Nov 15, 2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chatenever (Post 23279530)
I suspect that I'll get flamed for giving this advice, but after you've learned to fly your first plane, I'd recommend a dumbed-down 3D foamy. Have an experienced pilot set the throws on the control surfaces so that it is smooth and docile. Increase the throws as you gain experience. It steers like a hose, and goes wherever you point it.

That's good advice.

Another option, the Hobby King Bixler 1 or 2. The new Multiplex Easy Star, and another great plane to start with in the Eflite Apprentice. The most important part though is to try to have someone help you. Adjust your throws and expos as well. If you can get on a buddy box, even better. I learned to fly on the Apprentice and my instructor would get the plane into a stiff breeze and make me use rudder as the main means of control, along with throttle. Oh, and it was freezing cold out too.

If you belong to a club ask for the club trainer.

#11 easyrider604 Nov 15, 2012 07:29 PM

Aileron equipped planes will always turn quicker than rudder-only planes since ailerons are on the the wing and that makes them more effective as far as inducing attitude changes. Naturally, quickness of response depends on the amount of control surface throw as well. But a rudder mostly affects the yaw, which produces a clumsy, skidding effect. Whereas the ailerons produces the banking effect which is aerodynamically a quicker way to turn. Imagine turning a motorcycle without banking and you'll get the idea.

The main reasons rudder only planes like the SC make good trainers are:

1. It is harder to turn rudder only as you have noticed on the sim. This means that it is harder for a beginner to screw up the flight.

2. The SC's basic design, ie. high wing, low wing loading due to it low weight, just enough motor power, adequate dihedral all contribute to make the SC inherently stable, and it is self stabilizing after a beginner induced error, as well. Assuming he doesn't freeze, it is more difficult for the beginner to get into trouble with a model like the SC. Not saying he won't though.

#12 aphily8ed Nov 15, 2012 07:39 PM

So on a real Tx is it common practice to put the rudder on the right stick with the elevator or is that not possible?

#13 aurorae Nov 15, 2012 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aphily8ed (Post 23279848)
So on a real Tx is it common practice to put the rudder on the right stick with the elevator or is that not possible?

For a three channel plane, in the US, the rudder goes on the right stick, yes.

All you have to do is plug the rudder servo connector into the correct channel on the receiver.

#14 ChinoDiablo Nov 16, 2012 12:10 AM

Ares gamma 370. 3 channel, ready for receiver -$80.
"Gamma pro," 4 channel, brushless, ready-for receiver- $99.
Comes out later this month.
A true bargain and an outstanding flyer.

#15 alibongo Nov 16, 2012 02:37 AM

There is something wrong here.Anyone who can fly 4 channels, should have no trouble with three (and actually anyone proficient with 3 should not have too much trouble with 4.Flying is flying, after all is said and done).Aphily8ed has reversed his controls imo - the main directional control should always be on the right, in Mode 2.


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