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        Help! Turnigy Plush 25A for quadcopter won't calibrate with throttle in normal mode

#1 Scooter619 May 13, 2012 10:40 PM

Turnigy Plush 25A for quadcopter won't calibrate with throttle in normal mode
 
I have a Futaba 10C radio (running a Spektrum DM8 2.4GHz module) and I've been having issues with my new build setup. I dismantled my VC-450 quad in order to move the Naza controller over to my new HT-FPV frame. I bought 4 new Plush 25A ESC's and 4 new Hoverthings 1050kV motors for this build. I couldn't get the ESC's to calibrate while plugged into the Naza, so I plugged each one in the the Rx throttle channel directly. Weird thing is, they don't recognize normal throttle stick input. So I switched the throttle to "reverse" in order to calibrate. Things seemed to be ok, until I plugged them back into the Naza. They won't spin after I initiate one of the Command Stick Functions. So I plugged the Naza into my computer and ran the "Tx calibration" function but because the throttle channel was reversed, the throttle slider in the Naza Assistant software moved opposite. So I reversed the throttle in the Naza Assistant so that the slider moved in the correct direction. I tried to restart the quad at this point, using a CSC, and still no go. I've tried switching out all the components (incl. Rx, Tx, Naza) except the motors and the ESC's, nothing helps. I used a ESC programming card and programmed these ESC's with the same settings that my VC-450 Turnigy 18A ESC's were programmed with. I figured that ESC's were pretty much plug-n-play. But these seem to be reversing the output somehow.
I could use some help from you guys with experience in this.

Thanks!
Scooter

#2 Bruce Abbott May 14, 2012 07:33 AM

Futaba servo rotation is opposite to other brands, so for compatibility the throttle channel must be set to Reverse. It will then put out a 'normal' throttle signal, which is what most ESCs require. Once you have set the throttle channel to Reverse in the tx, everything else should then work normally (the only exception being that the throttle channel will appear to be 'upside down' in the servo monitor screen).

NOTE: You must only reverse the throttle channel in the REVERSE screen (separate settings for each model). Do not activate THR-REV in the global TX SETTING screen!

Before calibrating the tx sticks in the Naza, make sure the tx's channel endpoints are all set to 100%, subtrims set to 0, and trims centered. Use the tx servo monitor screen to check that the throttle indicator goes down as the stick is pushed up, and has the correct throw. Then re-bind the receiver with the tx throttle stick down. Finally, recalibrate each ESC's throttle range in the usual manner (start with throttle stick full up, wait for two beeps, lower throttle and wait for arming beeps).

Quote:

So I plugged the Naza into my computer and ran the "Tx calibration" function but because the throttle channel was reversed, the throttle slider in the Naza Assistant software moved opposite.
I am not familiar with the Naza Assistant, but this doesn't sound right to me. When a Futaba throttle is set to Reverse, it is actually putting out a normal signal. Therefore the Naza throttle calibration should respond normally (low throttle = indicator towards the left) when its reversing button is set to Normal.

#3 BobRCnut May 14, 2012 04:59 PM

If necessary, you can "re-reverse" the throttle channel in Naza Assistant. Also, make sure your control channel for the Naza is set up so that its endpoints fall within the 'A' and 'M' portions of the Assistant indicator below the stick position indicators.

#4 Scooter619 May 14, 2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott (Post 21608016)
NOTE: You must only reverse the throttle channel in the REVERSE screen (separate settings for each model). Do not activate THR-REV in the global TX SETTING screen!

I'm not sure about the "THR-REV" global thing. I've only changed the "Reverse" settings through the "Reverse" setting menu in my Futaba. I'm not sure what it controls, but is it possible that the "THR-REV" has somehow been swtiched? Maybe if I knew where to find it in my Futaba's settings, I could double-check it.

I'll try the procedure you recommend later tonight and see if it works.

#5 Scooter619 May 14, 2012 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobRCnut (Post 21612553)
If necessary, you can "re-reverse" the throttle channel in Naza Assistant. Also, make sure your control channel for the Naza is set up so that its endpoints fall within the 'A' and 'M' portions of the Assistant indicator below the stick position indicators.

Thanks Bruce and Bob. I was able to get the ESC's to calibrate correctly using Bruce's suggestions. I ran the Naza Assistant again and calibrated the Tx. This time, the throttle acted normally (slider to the left is throttle stick down) with the throttle set to "normal" in Naza. Unplugged everything and motors would not arm. So I tried setting Tx throttle channel to "normal", then re-did Naza's Tx calibration, this time "reversing" the throttle stick monitor in Naza. Everything behaved as before. Tried to start the quad up, and re-arm motors. No love.

One thing I noticed is that the yellow blinking light on the Naza (when it's in "auto" mode) double blinks when I move any of the sticks besides the throttle. I think that's an visual error code that means the throttle is reversed. This is really weird. My VC-450 did not require me to reverse the throttle channel. The only real difference between that and my new HT-FPV setup is the ESC's are Turnigy 25A's (as opposed to the 18A's on the 450) and the motors are Hoverthings motors (as opposed to the Kedas on the 450).

Any thoughts?

#6 Bruce Abbott May 15, 2012 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter619 (Post 21615768)
Thanks Bruce and Bob. I was able to get the ESC's to calibrate correctly using Bruce's suggestions. I ran the Naza Assistant again and calibrated the Tx. This time, the throttle acted normally (slider to the left is throttle stick down) with the throttle set to "normal" in Naza.

So far so good.

Quote:

Unplugged everything and motors would not arm.
Throttle calibration was correct, so there must be some other problem. Are you following the proper motor startup procedure?

Quote:

So I tried setting Tx throttle channel to "normal", then re-did Naza's Tx calibration, this time "reversing" the throttle stick monitor in Naza.
There was no need to do that. It was already correct.

Quote:

One thing I noticed is that the yellow blinking light on the Naza (when it's in "auto" mode) double blinks when I move any of the sticks besides the throttle. I think that's an visual error code that means the throttle is reversed.
Double blinking just means that one of the other controls (ailerons, elevator, rudder) is not centered.

Each ESC should beep its motor to tell you what it is doing. After an initial 3 note tune indicating power on, the possibilities are:-

1. Slow continuous beeping or nothing: no throttle signal

2. 3 short beeps (for 3S lipo) then one long beep: normal arming sequence

3. Fast continuous beeping: throttle not low enough

4. 5 note tune followed by various beep sequences, repeating: throttle high, reversed (stick programming mode)

What noises do your motors make after doing CSC?

#7 Scooter619 May 15, 2012 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Abbott (Post 21617123)

Throttle calibration was correct, so there must be some other problem. Are you following the proper motor startup procedure?

Yup. The way my VC-450 was setup, once you here the start up and "ok" tones, you just had to execute one of the 4 CSC's and the motors would spin.

Quote:

There was no need to do that. It was already correct.
I tried this for two reasons, 1) the motors didn't spin up 2)figured maybe having the throttle reversed was screwing up the CSC's (both sticks have to be at the lower position and in one corner or the other)

Quote:

Each ESC should beep its motor to tell you what it is doing. After an initial 3 note tune indicating power on, the possibilities are:-

1. Slow continuous beeping or nothing: no throttle signal

2. 3 short beeps (for 3S lipo) then one long beep: normal arming sequence

What noises do your motors make after doing CSC?
I get the 3 short beeps and then nothing, so I'm not even sure if it "knows" there's a 3S battery:mad:

#8 Bruce Abbott May 15, 2012 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter619 (Post 21619575)
I get the 3 short beeps and then nothing,

Sounds like there's no throttle signal. To test this, measure the voltage between the signal (_Π_) and negative (-) pins on each ESC port. You should see at least 1.3V at low throttle, going up to about 2.6V at full throttle. If it is stuck on zero volts then the Naza is not sending out a throttle signal.

#9 Scooter619 May 16, 2012 10:42 AM

Bruce, I get 1.1V measured at low throttle and all the way up to full throttle. I executed a CSC just to see if there was any change in voltage, and the answer is no. What next?

#10 Scooter619 May 16, 2012 12:07 PM

Bruce,
So I was just double checking things. I had forgot to plug the motor #1 ESC into the Naza when I plugged in the flight pack. The ESC came up with the initial startup tone, then the 3 single beeps. So I tried a CSC to arm the motors and see what happened. Well, motor #1 fired right up. So, I unplugged the flight pack, and went through the same procedure for #2. I plugged in #2 with the quad still powered up, got the same tones, and now #2 fires up. I figured I'd get the same result if I left the quad plugged in and removed the #3 and #4 ESC plugs. So I did #3 and #4 at the same time. Same result. But now, only motors #2- #4 fired up. #1 was somehow not recognized. So with the quad still plugged in, I just unplugged #1 and plugged it right back in. Guess what? All four fire up. Finally!!! What a relief.
Thanks for your help. This was really strange. I'm new to RC stuff and trying to use some basic troubleshooting steps wasn't getting me anywhere.

Cheers!

#11 Scooter619 May 16, 2012 01:11 PM

Well, maybe I spoke too soon. I unplugged the flight pack and plugged it back in. It went back to the normal 3-tone start up, and then nothing else. So I undid the ESC's from the Naza FC, and plugged them all back in. First, only motor 3 came up. So I unplugged 1,2 and 4 again and plugged them back in. Then they came online. Executed a CSC, and all 4 motors were humming. Unplugged the flight pack, and plugged it back in. Same ole story. I have to unplug and plug each ESC back in. CRAP!!! This is not going to get me flying:mad:

#12 BobRCnut May 16, 2012 02:09 PM

This is not an uncommon problem, and it's due to the way the ESCs detect the initial throttle signal. It's very common with certain ESCs sch as Gaui. The solution is to power the ESCs separately from the Naza and receiver, and power up the Naza and receiver first, then a second or two later, supply power to the ESCs. The easiest way is to supply power to the Naza's BEC/LED (the VU device) from the two outer leads of the battery's balance connector, and supply power to the ESCs through the normal main battery lead connector. Plug in to the balance connector first. This gives the Naza a chance to get through its boot procedure and provide the required throttle position signal to the ESCs before they power up. This prevents the ESCs from going into a 'lockup' condition because they don't see a normal throttle signal when powered on. This is noted is several places in the DJI Naza discussion thread over in the Multi Rotor area.

#13 Scooter619 May 16, 2012 02:47 PM

Bob, thanks for your time and advice. So I just followed your steps, but I used a separate 3S battery (the VU has a female JST connector that's hooked into my wiring harness via a male JST). It powered up, followed by a repeating double-beep. Then I plugged in the flight pack which powered up the Rx and Naza FC. I initiated a CSC and the motors spun up. Now the question is, do I have to do this step each time I want to fly? If that's the case, it seems silly. My VC-450 fires right up without having to power up the VU separately.

#14 Scooter619 May 18, 2012 10:18 AM

Is there a setting that I can change using the Turnigy ESC programming card? I'm not sure what "timing" does, but as of now it's set to "low". Does "timing" affect the start up timing of the ESC's? Just wondering what I can do to get this this flying without making it too much of a pain.

#15 85miles May 08, 2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scooter619 (Post 21647804)
Is there a setting that I can change using the Turnigy ESC programming card? I'm not sure what "timing" does, but as of now it's set to "low". Does "timing" affect the start up timing of the ESC's? Just wondering what I can do to get this this flying without making it too much of a pain.

i cant believe this im using plush 25a as well i been 2 days trying to build this damn naza flamewheel, so now I have to flash my ESC just awesome, 2 week wait for the proper cable to arrive too i guess, omg im gonna go bizurk!!


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