RC Groups

RC Groups
    Beginner Training Area (Heli-Electric)
        Careful! 3D is NOT for everyone

#1 CaptJac May 12, 2012 06:11 AM

3D is NOT for everyone
 
A LOT of beginners - and I underline a LOT - are misled or misguided or misinformed into thinking they should set up their 450's for 3D because that is the way to learn. BUT there is another helicopter world that has nothing to do with 3D - called SCALE flying and approximates as close as possible real flying in a real helicopter. Not that it is any easier - and in fact is considerably more difficult to slow fly and precision hovering and 360 degree turns around the field with coordinated banked turns instead of zipping and zapping and rocketing and imitating a humming bird on crack. OK - so much for slamming 3D - how do you setup your brand-new just built 450 for scale flying? Get out your pitch gauge and open up the pitch-curve and throttle curve menus on your transmitter and let's start spinning up.

First - and most importantly - get rid of all that negative pitch. -2 degrees (-2) is all you need in the beginning - and this is to insure you can get back down on the ground and glue you to the ground if there is any wind. Someday you may want to do some inverted flying - but there is an awful lot of non-inverted flying you will want to learn first. An ideal pitch-curve for beginners is -2 (low stick) +4 (center stick) and +8 (high stick). This will cause your heli to get light on the skids slightly above center stick. But what about the throttle curve? Here is where you want to start taking notes. The throttle should be independent of the pitch once you spin up. How you do that? Your transmitter can switch flight-modes (The DX7 uses "Normal" -"ST1"- "ST2") and each of these flight-modes has its own throttle-curve and pitch-curve. Using the DX7 for this example - set the throttle curve in "Nomal" for 0-25-80-80-80. This will spin up your engine and hold about an 80% head speed above the 1/4 stick position. Set the throttle curve in "ST1" for 80-80-80-80-80 . This will hold a constant head speed constant in all stick positions. Now here's where it gets slick with the stick. Set the pitch curve in "Normal" for -2, 0, 3, 3, 3 on your pitch gauge. Note: The numbers in the DX7 are not degrees - they are percentage - you need a pitch gauge to convert the numbers into degrees. Set the pitch curve in "ST1" the same way except the last two points on the curve will be 5 and 8. Your pitch curve will be -2, 0, 3, 5, 8. "Normal" flight-mode will be for spinning up and spinning down - "ST1" will be for flying.

First Flight test: Spin up in "Normal" - bring up your collective stick to about 25% (this will spool up your engine but not take off). Switch to "ST1" and continue to bring up your collective (gradually) until you have lift off. Now you are controlling altitude with pitch and not head speed. This will give you far smoother control of maintaining your height - just like a full scale helicopter. For landing it is just the opposite. Reduce your collective (gradually) until you are the ground - switch to "Normal" and bring your throttle down to zero. Switch on throttle-hold for safety.

Note: At any time you want to shut off the engine - try to avoid slamming the collective down - this negative pitch will pull the heli into the ground. Condition your finger or thumb or big toe (whichever works for you) to switch ON throttle-hold or throttle-cut when you panic. This will maintain your positive pitch on the blades and help eliminate the pan-cake effect. :eek:

captJac

#2 Zelon May 12, 2012 07:46 AM

Hi, Capt Jack I started learning to fly about five weeks ago. Learned on a V911.bought a mcpx.Someone suggested upgrading the tx to DX6i.So I did,received in the mail yesterday,and plan on programming it today.are the above mentioned settings good for basic hovering and slow speed practice?Also just bought FAQ 102 book lots of good advise in there.any help would be greatly appreciatied. Thanks Mike.

#3 CaptJac May 12, 2012 09:30 AM

Hi Mike - same procedure for your DX6i. There are 2 flight-modes - NORM & STUNT. Each mode has its own throttle-curve and pitch-curve (THRO CUR and PITC CUR on the ADJUST LIST. The modes are selected with the F-MODE switch on the top-right of the transmitter. Take it easy with that mCPx - they are a real handful for a beginner. Recommend using 25% expo on the cyclic and rudder. (ADJUST LIST -> D/R & EXPO -> AILE 60% 25% | ELEV 60% 25% | RUDD 60% 25%) Start polishing those rotors!! :D

#4 Balr14 May 12, 2012 09:41 AM

Good topic, CaptJac.

#5 Zelon May 12, 2012 09:48 AM

You mentioned in your book ,setting normal and stunt up the same to avoid accidents .Should I setup the tx this way for now?Mike:confused:

#6 CaptJac May 12, 2012 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zelon (Post 21592193)
You mentioned in your book ,setting normal and stunt up the same to avoid accidents .Should I setup the tx this way for now?Mike:confused:

GOT ME!! You are absolutely correct - the throttle and pitch curves in the book are both tracking together. From a crash standpoint - it is a little safer because the reflex is to slam the throttle down when you get in trouble. After some time to "rethink" that position and do some more flight testing I concluded it better to reprogram that slam-down-reflex before it gets wired into the brain permanently. Hit the "throttle-hold" switch when you get into trouble.

#7 Zelon May 12, 2012 10:04 AM

Ok ,will do probably be back with more questions.Thanks Mike

#8 zadaw May 12, 2012 11:15 AM

It is really sad when I see people who can only fly outer figure of eights doing flips. But it seems this is the way that things are heading.

#9 ailevin May 13, 2012 12:20 PM

Do you recommend those same throttle and pitch settings for the little mCPx?

#10 CaptJac May 13, 2012 04:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ailevin (Post 21601365)
Do you recommend those same throttle and pitch settings for the little mCPx?

Same idea - the motor bogs down quite a bit easier though, so the throttle curve needs to be tweaked. With a linear pitch curve (-2,0,4,6,8) - a throttle curve of 0,60,70,75,80 will maintain a fairly constant head-speed and good altitude control.

#11 Username> May 13, 2012 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balr14 (Post 21592126)
Good topic, CaptJac.

Agreed.

His posts always make for good reading to a beginner-mid intermediate like me.

Captainjack, you're an asset to this message board so keep up the good work.

#12 slothy89 May 13, 2012 10:36 PM

Good post CaptJac,

I was thinking of posting up a topic asking whether I should look into 6ch helis at all, as I do not plan to do 3D, rather going for the scale flight style.
This makes me feel that it is still ideal to head for a CP heli, gonna be hard to find a scale bodied CP soon though with the huge rise in 3D interest these days.

To me Scale flights seem like they would easier on the Wallet too ;)

Thread Bookmarked :D

#13 mdugas May 14, 2012 08:48 AM

hi ,have 450rtf its esc doesnt have soft start option ,think going 0toflat80 throttle
would kill the main gear on spool up every time.

#14 elan May 14, 2012 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zadaw (Post 21592805)
It is really sad when I see people who can only fly outer figure of eights doing flips. But it seems this is the way that things are heading.

-Agreed...

#15 CaptJac May 14, 2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdugas (Post 21608505)
hi ,have 450rtf its esc doesnt have soft start option ,think going 0toflat80 throttle would kill the main gear on spool up every time.

Ramp up to 80 with the first couple of steps - 0,30,50,80,80 - that will make the window for your switch-over a little narrower so you may want to adjust the pitch curve so lift off is a couple notches higher than center-stick.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:54 PM.