RC Groups

RC Groups
    Vendor Talk
        Discussion Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service

#1 dougschaefer89 Nov 18, 2011 12:40 PM

Buyer Beware - Extreme Flight RC poor customer service
 
I am posting this as a service to anyone owning an Extreme Flight MXS-EXP ARF or any other Extreme Flight aircraft. You need to make sure you put Blue Loctite on all of the linkage bolts even though it is not mentioned in the manual. I lost a plane yesterday on the second fight because the elevator bolt just fell out. Don't call Extreme Flight to complain unless you wanted to be treated like crap. They will basically tell you that you are not a good enough builder and that is why if failed. Here is my story and the responce I got. I would love to hear your comments on who you think was right.

On a side note: Has anyone spoken to a Curtis Cozier at Extreme Flight, he was very rude and wanted to know if anyone else had a similar experience or if I just caught him on a bad day. Also I am tring to get ahold of the owner "Chris", does anyone have his email address? Curtis told me he forward my complaint on but I don't really believe it.

My Initial Email

> Customer Service
> My name is Doug Schaefer and I recently purchased a 48 inch MXS EXP,
> (the new one in Blue) from a guy on craigslist. The plane was just
> put together and never flown before I got it. I flew it the other day
> for the first time and what a plane, super light, very responsive, I
> was very impressed with its performance. I went out this morning on
> my way to work and flew it again and again it flew great until about 9
> minutes in. I was practicing a knife edge at about 60ft, when the
> plane just turned and started heading right for the ground. It felt
> like I had lost complete contact with the plane. It went in nose
> first hard enough to split the lipo pack in two. When I got to the
> plane I did some initial investigation but it was too hard to tell
> what went wronge. I thought about it all day at work, I have had the
> receiver for some time and it has always been reliable, the batteries
> are new, I did not setup the speed control so I suspected it at first.
> I just got home a little while ago and had a chace to start breaking
> down the plane. I tested the receiver, motor, and ESC and they all
> worked fine. I started to see if I could salvage the plane because the
> wings have just two dents and the tail section is not even scratched.
> Then I figured it out, while cutting off some loose monokote from the
> tail I noticed the linkage on the elevator was not collected. The
> entire bolt was gone and the control horn was in perfect condition. I
> had checked all of the linkages when I was setting up my radio and
> they where all fine. I would say that without a dought the assemble
> came apart and fell out after two flights. I decided to look up your
> instructions to make sure the builder did not miss something. The
> instructions say "Thread the ball links onto each end of the pushrods
> and secure to the servo arm and control horn with the 2 mm hardware as
> shown in the picture." and this was done properly.
> Here is my complaint, I went through this plane with a fine tooth comb
> since I did not build it. I even looked through the manual and I felt
> that the builder did a near perfect job per your instructions. The
> problem is that your instructions are wronge. The instructions fail
> to mention that Loctite should be applied on these type of connections
> because they are not locking nuts. The connection lasted for about 20
> minutes before it fell out. I have had wrecks in the past and will
> have wrecks in the future but this one is really bothering me. What
> bothers me the most is that you mention that Loctite is required for
> build. You want the builder to put it on two items the landing gear
> and the motor mount, if the instructions just said to put it on the
> linkages I would not be in this position.
> I would like to talk to someone in customer service, please call me on
> my cell phone when you get a chance.
> I attached a few photos of the wreck for you to see.
> Thank you,
> Doug Schaefer

Extreme Flights Responce

On Fri, Nov 18, 2011 at 9:29 AM, Extreme Flight R/C <info@extremeflightrc.com> wrote:
> Thanks for contacting us. Our airframes are designed for intermediate to
> advanced builders and pilots.
> There is just no way we can cover every nuance of a build in our manual.
> There are things that are up to the experience and knowledge of the builder.
> Also any airframe can require regular inspection and maintenance.
>
> Thank you,
> Curtis Cozier
> 770-887-1794
> Extreme Flight R/C
> This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or confidential
> information. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
> printing or copying of this e-mail, and any attachment thereto, is strictly
> prohibited.
>

My Complaint to the BBB which they are not accredited with.


I purchased a RC airplane (48 inch MXS EXP) from them and a part failed on the second flight. The control linkage on the elevator fell off causing the plane to crash. The cause is that the part probably should have had loctite on it. I went through the manual and it never mentions loctite on these parts although it does on several other parts of the build process. I wrote the company an email stating what happened and what caused the failure and asked them to call me to discuss further. Here is the responce I got back.
"Thanks for contacting us. Our airframes are designed for intermediate to advanced builders and pilots.
There is just no way we can cover every nuance of a build in our manual.
There are things that are up to the experience and knowledge of the builder. Also any airframe can require regular inspection and maintenance."
I was a little offended by the response since he did not know anything about my experience as a pilot or builder, so I called. Curtis answers and was immediately harsh and not very friendly. I told him I was a little offended by his response. My first question was if you expect your customer to be knowledgeable why even give them a manual? His response was that it was to cover minor details. I asked why you would want to cover little details when you told me I was suppose to just know to put loctite on that part? He said you are correct we will just stop putting manuals with our product, (in a very smart tone). I asked if he would send that to me in writing. He said no and the conversation went on like this for about 15 minutes. Not once did he ever apologize for my poor experience with their product, in fact he only got more unfriendly and so did I.

In the end I told him that my purpose of the contact was to try and better their products so this did not happen to other customers and he told me that they never had complaints before. This push me over the edge and I called him some inappropriate names and we hung up.

In summary Extreme Flight products do fly good but don’t expect good customer service if the product fails.

(Correction sent to the BBB - I need to make one small adjustment to the claim, I did not purchase
this item directly, I purchased it from a guy on craigslist who built
the plane and then sold it to me.)

#2 7oneWo1f Nov 18, 2011 01:13 PM

I bought a 60" extra from extreme flight RC, and talked with Curtis more than a couple of times. I haven't built mine up yet. (I'm waiting for the motor to get back in stock).

Curtis has always been polite and reasonable and patient with me in my several phone calls to Extreme Flight RC.

To be honest, I think he was reasonable with you, too. I'm not sure what you want, but even if there was a warranty issue, it probably applies to the original purchaser only.

And even if you were the original purchaser, you haven't explained why loctite would have helped you.

Loctite will reduce the chance of a threaded object from walking out of another threaded object in situations where that is possible. But if something else prevents the threaded object from rotating, e.g., a servo arm, I'm not convinced you've correctly assessed the cause of the crash. Looking at manual (page 15), I'm not sure what you claim is even possible. It seems more probably that what you ascribe as the cause of the crash is really the result of the crash.

In any event, unless both objects are metal, you need to be careful with loctite, because it will weaken some plastics. I accidentally slopped some loctite on some nylon wing braces once, and it made it very brittle very quickly. The point here is that I would be careful where you use loctite. I only use it metal on metal.

#3 dougschaefer89 Nov 18, 2011 02:17 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I guess what i was wanting was someone in customer service to have some care for a customer and future customers. I truely feel that if you do not do something to these parts to make sure they are better secure they will fall off and I want others to know. I hate learning from experience.

I don't feel it matters where I got the product, it is there product and they should care about the customers purchasing it. I wanted to post a picture I took last night of the part and this is why I think it caused the crash.
This is a picture of the part that is missing.
http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMAG0279.jpg

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/...9/IMAG0275.jpg

You can see that everything behind the wing tub is fine and the linkages are fine they are just missing the bolt and nut. I don't see how this could not be the cause, they definately did not fall out because of the crash (at least I don't see how that is possible without breaking something) and I could not fly for 9 minutes without an elevator.

These are metel to metal parts so I think loctite is ok in this situation and I will be using it everytime from now on.

I have never filed a complaint with the BBB nor have I ever posted on a forum like this about a company or individual. This is how disrespected and blown off I felt after that email and phone conversation.

I never even mentioned Warranty to Curtis, not one time did I ask for a new model, I don't even know what the company warranty policy is. I did ask if they stand behind their product and he said that they do.

Again this is why I put it out here to get others opinions, we all have bad days and bad customers.

#4 7oneWo1f Nov 18, 2011 03:06 PM

Okay, looking at your photo, and based on your description, I think you're right that loctite would have helped.

Regarding your complaint to the BBB, it is incorrect. You have already gone on record as stating that you bought the plane from a guy on craigslist, but in the complaint you quote you relay that you bought it directly from extreme flight.

BTW, I once had a kyosho nitro car that stripped a gear when I didn't loctite a mount and things vibrated loose. I learned and moved on.

In any event, how do you think this should have been handled differently? More empathy? Immediate acceptence of your manual recommendations? Seems that you're trying to tarnish a man's and a company's reputations yet I can't understand why. As I said, Curtis was very patient with me when I called him. EF seems to have a very good reputation, which is why I bought a plane from them.

#5 dougschaefer89 Nov 18, 2011 03:27 PM

I am definately moving on, I hope to use the wings in some future project.

Regarding the BBB complaint you are correct and I need to adjust that to be more accurate.

I feel that a customer service agent of a company should be kind and understanding to a customers complaint and possibly try and offer some solutions if there are any. In this particular case I don't think that there are because they do not sell the body of the plane by it self so I would need to purchase the entire kit. I just did not like the attitude from the get go.

I am not trying to tarnish anyones reputation but I do want to share my experience and I would encourage him to comment, (I don't know if it is my place to let him know I am posting this).

The wreck is still fresh and frustrating but that is the nature of this hobby.

#6 7oneWo1f Nov 18, 2011 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougschaefer89 (Post 19910792)
Regarding the BBB complaint you are correct and I need to adjust that to be more accurate.

Glad to hear that. But the BBB probably won't look at the case since you weren't a direct customer. (As far as I know, they deal with direct business transactions between businesses and consumers, and only if money changes hands).

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougschaefer89 (Post 19910792)
I am not trying to tarnish anyones reputation but I do want to share my experience and I would encourage him to comment, (I don't know if it is my place to let him know I am posting this).

I'd consider taking the post down instead of letting EF/Curits/Chris know you put it up, just in case you decide in the future, after reading about all of the great experiences people have with EF customer service and products, that you want to do business with them directly. But even if EF knows about this post, they don't have anything to gain by responding to it publically in my opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougschaefer89 (Post 19910792)
The wreck is still fresh and frustrating but that is the nature of this hobby.

That it is fresh and that you're still riled up is probably a good indication that you should give it some time. I'm not picking on you, and I've been in similar situations with retailers before, where I felt wronged and wanted to vent and warn others. But in hindsight I'm glad I didn't name names or make a spectacle. Instead, I tried to tone rhetoric down and have a calm discussion with superiors. And believe me, it's not easy, but if I can do it, anybody probably can.

#7 Hammer Nov 19, 2011 06:36 AM

Did you read this part of their email?

> This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by the
> addressee(s) named herein and may contain privileged and/or confidential
> information. You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution,
> printing or copying of this e-mail, and any attachment thereto, is strictly
> prohibited.
>

#8 banzi28 Nov 19, 2011 03:39 PM

Email disclaimers like that are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.

http://www.economist.com/node/18529895

I don't understand why people even use these. Especially when they come at the END of an email. Do a quick search about how email disclaimers are unenforceable and you'll see what I mean. I guess people put them in to feel safe; from what I do not know. I guess since email is sent in plaintext through various servers, some companies are concerned about corporate espionage and the like. Beats the hell out of me.

Anyway. While I sympathize with the OP I don't see how you can ask the maker for any kind of help since you didn't build the aircraft? By your own admission you bought it used, and any warranty ended when the model was assembled?

It sucks. I know. I bought a used airframe and it crashed on the first flight over the summer. There was nothing I could do about it and had to chalk it up to a loss. Now I will only fly something that has been checked from tip to tail, top to bottom twice - or more and every conceivable precaution has been taken.

#9 Art Schmitz Nov 19, 2011 06:27 PM

Part of safely flying RC is 'tweeking'...spotting potential trouble points and then rectifying the situation. Take nothing for granted, new or used.
Something that works well is to get an experienced RC'er to check your work.
Pre-flight and post-flight inspections can save a lot of grief and misery.
I think you were treated fairly.
FWIW. art

#10 Trevally May 12, 2012 03:08 PM

I recently tried to purchase something from EF as an international customer - only to find out that they do not sell to international customers but trade via a distributor.

But EF did not tell me this and the transaction went through as far as "My Account" was concerned, and I was kept waiting for a week (note my Paypal was not credited, but no one told me). When I emailed them, I had a series of rather crude/ rude and abrupt responses back saying they don't deal with international customers and that I should have read this particular web-page. Then I emailed back and aked if they could credit my Paypal account. I got another very crude reply with a similar level of abruptness and rudeness - like I was wasting their time !!

EF, I suggest you please place a notice on your "Purchases area" so that as soon as the international customer types in an international address, a message should pop up to say you only deal with int. customers via distributors, then send them to the int. dist. page. We customers seldom plough through every page to read every note. we google a part, find a store, and if trustworthy, we pay. But if you cannot trade, or cannot accept payment, please don't leave us guessing - please tell us. Or to save you time, don't even allow this to happen in the first place by placing a clear note in the "Purchases" area, not on a seperate web page...

I have recently bought a lot of stuff from EF via our local distributor, and I have come to respect the Brand. I hope Curtis Cozier is not one of the owners - he seemed very rude in his email responses and if this is the way he conducts business, then EF will have lost a valued customer - and many more because I will talk to many other modellers I know.

I hope this is a one-off because I see the dangerous tell-tale signes of a Brilliant Brand getting ruined by poor customer service from staff or owners.

#11 kartoffel May 21, 2012 01:39 PM

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I noticed that Extreme Flight RC is right down the road from AtlantaHobby.com. Just 3.9 miles according to Google maps.

http://g.co/maps/g5777

#12 bubbasanjohn Sep 03, 2013 03:11 AM

Lol. Omg. I know this is old but..... Some people. I bought this used plane, it crashed because I didn't check it, and now I want something from the manufacturer. Oh and I'm gonna report them to the bbb. Seriously mental.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:29 AM.