#1 Jim Monaco Sep 29, 2011 12:15 PM

F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and
scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using
a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now
looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team
Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the
matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or
very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some
suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people
in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can
program it.. :)

Here are the constraints:

1. There are 10 teams

2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a
BYE will fill the empty slots).

3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a
round)

4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against
another team member.

5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

Here is what I have attempted so far:

1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team
every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I
then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the
flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams
have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I
calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run
1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I
compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.
For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then
add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average
standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates
the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum
standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

3. Random with statistical preference and permutiations - for this
approach I calculate all the possible permutations of the sequence 1-4.
Then for each team I generate a random sequence of those permutations
(1-24). I then assign the group position for each pilot in a round based on
that teams random set of permutations. I then do the same as #2 and
calculate the minimum SD of all the matrixes and select the lowest.
Interestingly this approach was nearly identical in minimum SD as the #2
approach.

It just feels to me like there should be a better way to get a more even
distribution - I'm hoping one of you math heads out there can help me
improve the matrix.

If not - it is what it is and I did my best.

Jim

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 #2 Dave Jensen Sep 29, 2011 12:22 PM

Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Nevermind on the when/where.... I just remembered it's next month in
FL.

On Thu, 29 Sep 2011 11:15:45 -0600, Jim Monaco wrote:

> As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the
> matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the
> flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any
> complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest
> possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number
> of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies
> against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I
> ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions
> on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in
> the
> group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can
> program it.. :)
>
> Here are the constraints:
>
> 1. There are 10 teams
>
> 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a
> BYE will fill the empty slots).
>
> 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a
> round)
>
> 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against
> another team member.
>
> 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix
>
> Here is what I have attempted so far:
>
> 1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team
> every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including
> BYES).
> I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and
> assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team.
> When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the
> next round.
>
> 2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I
> calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix
> and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do
> this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the
> other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of
> these
> numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and
> compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick
> the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000
> trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28.
> Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.
>
> 3. Random with statistical preference and permutiations - for this
> approach I calculate all the possible permutations of the sequence
> 1-4. Then for each team I generate a random sequence of those
> permutations (1-24). I then assign the group position for each pilot
> in a round based on that teams random set of permutations. I then do
> the same as #2 and calculate the minimum SD of all the matrixes and
> select the lowest. Interestingly this approach was nearly identical
> in
> minimum SD as the #2 approach.
>
> It just feels to me like there should be a better way to get a more
> even distribution - I'm hoping one of you math heads out there can
> help me improve the matrix…
>
> If not - it is what it is and I did my best…
>
> Jim
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RCSE" group.
> To post to this group, send email to rcse@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> For more options, visit this group at

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 #3 mike@themapsmith.com Sep 29, 2011 12:22 PM

RE: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...uspension.aspx

Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

Cheers,

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am

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As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

Here are the constraints:

1. There are 10 teams

2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

Here is what I have attempted so far:

1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

3. Random with statistical preference and permutiations – for this approach I calculate all the possible permutations of the sequence 1-4. Then for each team I generate a random sequence of those permutations (1-24). I then assign the group position for each pilot in a round based on that teams random set of permutations. I then do the same as #2 and calculate the minimum SD of all the matrixes and select the lowest. Interestingly this approach was nearly identical in minimum SD as the #2 approach.

It just feels to me like there should be a better way to get a more even distribution – I’m hoping one of you math heads out there can help me improve the matrix…

If not – it is what it is and I did my best…

Jim

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 #4 Jim Monaco Sep 29, 2011 12:32 PM

RE: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Thanks Mike

That is a really cool cabinet hanger link. J

Yes - I have a web based scoring system so I need to get a matrix that I can
do something with to import into my program.

I'll google it and see if it might produce something I can use.

I don't have Joes private email any more - maybe he will see this and chime
in.

Jim

Jim

mike@themapsmith.com
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:23 AM
To: Jim Monaco
Subject: RE: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Jim, try gliderscore here...
<http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...t-hangerwall-r
ail-suspension.aspx>
http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...-hangerwall-ra
il-suspension.aspx

Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly
distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar
to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be
to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So
the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out
recurrances.

Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his
RCGroups contact.

Cheers,

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am

As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and
scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using
a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now
looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team
Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the
matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or
very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some
suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people
in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can
program it.. :)

Here are the constraints:

1. There are 10 teams

2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a
BYE will fill the empty slots).

3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a
round)

4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against
another team member.

5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

Here is what I have attempted so far:

1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team
every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I
then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the
flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams
have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I
calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run
1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I
compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.
For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then
add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average
standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates
the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum
standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

3. Random with statistical preference and permutiations - for this
approach I calculate all the possible permutations of the sequence 1-4.
Then for each team I generate a random sequence of those permutations
(1-24). I then assign the group position for each pilot in a round based on
that teams random set of permutations. I then do the same as #2 and
calculate the minimum SD of all the matrixes and select the lowest.
Interestingly this approach was nearly identical in minimum SD as the #2
approach.

It just feels to me like there should be a better way to get a more even
distribution - I'm hoping one of you math heads out there can help me
improve the matrix.

If not - it is what it is and I did my best.

Jim

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 #5 Don Harban Sep 29, 2011 12:40 PM

Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
of course frequency conflicts.

It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
that.

In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
you are satisfied.

If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:

> Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...uspension.aspx
>
>
>
> Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed.  He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do.  Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times.  So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.
>
>
>
> Hope this helps.  You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks.  In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints.  However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times.  I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group.  I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)
>
>
>
> Here are the constraints:
>
> 1.      There are 10 teams
>
> 2.      Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).
>
> 3.      Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)
>
> 4.      Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.
>
> 5.      We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix
>
>
>
> Here is what I have attempted so far:
>
> 1.      Pure random – for each round I process each team.  On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team.  When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.
>
> 2.      Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance.  To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.  For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers.  I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix.  I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials.  Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28.  Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.
>
> ...
>

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 #6 Don Harban Sep 29, 2011 01:00 PM

Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
described and to specifically score F3K comps.

I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:

> I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe.  I
> am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source.  But it has
> Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> nearly any number of contestants and flight groups.   It is a complete
> scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> of course frequency conflicts.
>
> It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> results.  It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> rounds.  It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> that.
>
> In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> you are satisfied.
>
> If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
> On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

>

> >

>

> > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed.  He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do.  Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times.  So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

>

> >

>

> > Hope this helps.  You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

>

> >

>

> > Cheers,

>

> >

>

> > Mike

>

> >

>

> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks.  In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints.  However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times.  I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group.  I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

>

> >

>

> > Here are the constraints:

>

> > 1.      There are 10 teams

>

> > 2.      Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

>

> > 3.      Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

>

> > 4.      Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

>

> > 5.      We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

>

> >

>

> > Here is what I have attempted so far:

>

> > 1.      Pure random – for each round I process each team.  On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team.  When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

>

> > 2.      Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance.  To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.  For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers.  I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix.  I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials.  Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28.  Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

>

> > ...

>

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 #7 mike@themapsmith.com Sep 29, 2011 01:04 PM

RE: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

http://www.gliderscore.com/CompF3J.aspx

Doh! Now you know what I am working on....

Here is the link. I do think that you can import the matrix into your program once it is developed in gliderscore. Check it out and perhaps contact Oleg Golovidov, or Jerry on that web site.

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:32 am

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Thanks Mike

That is a really cool cabinet hanger link… J

Yes – I have a web based scoring system so I need to get a matrix that I can do something with to import into my program.

I’ll google it and see if it might produce something I can use.

I don’t have Joes private email any more – maybe he will see this and chime in…





 Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:23 AM
 Jim Monaco
 RE: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...uspension.aspx

Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

Cheers,

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am

As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

Here are the constraints:

1. There are 10 teams

2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

Here is what I have attempted so far:

1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

3. Random with statistical preference and permutiations – for this approach I calculate all the possible permutations of the sequence 1-4. Then for each team I generate a random sequence of those permutations (1-24). I then assign the group position for each pilot in a round based on that teams random set of permutations. I then do the same as #2 and calculate the minimum SD of all the matrixes and select the lowest. Interestingly this approach was nearly identical in minimum SD as the #2 approach.

It just feels to me like there should be a better way to get a more even distribution – I’m hoping one of you math heads out there can help me improve the matrix…

If not – it is what it is and I did my best…

Jim

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 #8 mike@themapsmith.com Sep 29, 2011 01:05 PM

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am

Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
described and to specifically score F3K comps.

I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:
> I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> of course frequency conflicts.
>
> It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> that.
>
> In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> you are satisfied.
>
> If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
> On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

>
> >

>
> > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

>
> >

>
> > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

>
> >

>
> > Cheers,

>
> >

>
> > Mike

>
> >

>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

>
> >

>
> > Here are the constraints:

>
> > 1. There are 10 teams

>
> > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

>
> > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

>
> > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

>
> > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

>
> >

>
> > Here is what I have attempted so far:

>
> > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

>
> > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

>
> > ...

>

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 #9 Buzz Averill Sep 29, 2011 03:15 PM

RE: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Jim, I have asked Dan Tandberg if he might be able to help

Monaco
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 11:16 AM
Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and
scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using
a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now
looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team
Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the
matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or
very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some
suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people
in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can
program it.. :)

Here are the constraints:

1. There are 10 teams

2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a
BYE will fill the empty slots).

3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a
round)

4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against
another team member.

5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

Here is what I have attempted so far:

1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team
every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I
then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the
flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams
have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I
calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run
1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I
compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.
For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then
add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average
standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates
the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum
standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

3. Random with statistical preference and permutiations - for this
approach I calculate all the possible permutations of the sequence 1-4.
Then for each team I generate a random sequence of those permutations
(1-24). I then assign the group position for each pilot in a round based on
that teams random set of permutations. I then do the same as #2 and
calculate the minimum SD of all the matrixes and select the lowest.
Interestingly this approach was nearly identical in minimum SD as the #2
approach.

It just feels to me like there should be a better way to get a more even
distribution - I'm hoping one of you math heads out there can help me
improve the matrix.

If not - it is what it is and I did my best.

Jim

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 #10 Jim Monaco Sep 29, 2011 03:26 PM

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make
it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and
the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to
export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into
his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import
back into my program. Then I'll run my stats and see if it still looks as
good.

Piece of cake. J

Jim

mike@themapsmith.com
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am

Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
described and to specifically score F3K comps.

I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:

> I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> of course frequency conflicts.
>
> It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> that.
>
> In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> you are satisfied.
>
> If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
> On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> > Jim, try gliderscore here...

http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

>

> >

>

> > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly

distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar
to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be
to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So
the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out
recurrances.

>

> >

>

> > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his

RCGroups contact.

>

> >

>

> > Cheers,

>

> >

>

> > Mike

>

> >

>

> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J

events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have
always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have
any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest
possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of
tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against
another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the
sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to
improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a
programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

>

> >

>

> > Here are the constraints:

>

> > 1. There are 10 teams

>

> > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots

a BYE will fill the empty slots).

>

> > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a

round)

>

> > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against

another team member.

>

> > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

>

> >

>

> > Here is what I have attempted so far:

>

> > 1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team

every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I
then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the
flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams
have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

>

> > 2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I

calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run
1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I
compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.
For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then
add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average
standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates
the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum
standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

>

> > ...

>

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 #11 mike@themapsmith.com Sep 29, 2011 04:35 PM

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

I've told you this before Jim, but another "You Rock" couldn't hurt.

You Rock!

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 1:26 pm

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Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program… Then I’ll run my stats and see if it still looks as good…

Piece of cake… J



 Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM
 RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am

Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
described and to specifically score F3K comps.

I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:
> I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> of course frequency conflicts.
>
> It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> that.
>
> In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> you are satisfied.
>
> If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
> On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

>
> >

>
> > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

>
> >

>
> > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

>
> >

>
> > Cheers,

>
> >

>
> > Mike

>
> >

>
> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

>
> >

>
> > Here are the constraints:

>
> > 1. There are 10 teams

>
> > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

>
> > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

>
> > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

>
> > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

>
> >

>
> > Here is what I have attempted so far:

>
> > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

>
> > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

>
> > ...

>

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 #12 Rob Glover Sep 29, 2011 07:50 PM

Re: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Jim -
Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for consideration as a rulebook event?

Thanks for the good work

Rob Glover

On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program… Then I’ll run my stats and see if it still looks as good…
>
>
>
> Piece of cake… J
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
>
>
>
> And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.
>
>
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am
>
>
>
> Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
> the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
> described and to specifically score F3K comps.
>
> I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
>
> On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:

> > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> > of course frequency conflicts.
> >
> > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> > that.
> >
> > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> > you are satisfied.
> >
> > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
> >
> > Happy Landings,
> >
> > Don
> >
> > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >

> > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Cheers,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Mike

> >

> > >

> >

> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Here are the constraints:

> >

> > > 1. There are 10 teams

> >

> > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

> >

> > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

> >

> > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

> >

> > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Here is what I have attempted so far:

> >

> > > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

> >

> > > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

> >

> > > ...

> >

> > > read more »

>
> --
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 #13 Rob Glover Sep 29, 2011 07:50 PM

Re: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Bubba says Amen!

Rob Glover

On Sep 29, 2011, at 16:35, <mike@themapsmith.com> wrote:

> I've told you this before Jim, but another "You Rock" couldn't hurt.
>
> You Rock!
>
> Mike
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 1:26 pm
>
> Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import back into my program… Then I’ll run my stats and see if it still looks as good…
>
> Piece of cake… J
>
> Jim
>
> Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM
> Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
>
> And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.
>
> Mike
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
> Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am
>
>
>
> Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
> the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
> described and to specifically score F3K comps.
>
> I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
>
> On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:

> > I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> > and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> > am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> > Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> > nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> > scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> > of course frequency conflicts.
> >
> > It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> > results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> > rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> > that.
> >
> > In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> > will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> > forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> > you are satisfied.
> >
> > If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
> >
> > Happy Landings,
> >
> > Don
> >
> > On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >

> > > Jim, try gliderscore here... http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out recurrances.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his RCGroups contact.

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Cheers,

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Mike

> >

> > >

> >

> > > -------- Original Message --------
> > > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Here are the constraints:

> >

> > > 1. There are 10 teams

> >

> > > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots a BYE will fill the empty slots).

> >

> > > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a round)

> >

> > > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against another team member.

> >

> > > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

> >

> > >

> >

> > > Here is what I have attempted so far:

> >

> > > 1. Pure random – for each round I process each team. On each team every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

> >

> > > 2. Random with statistical preference – I do the above, but I calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run 1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots. For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

> >

> > > ...

> >

> > > read more »

>
> --
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 #14 Jim Monaco Sep 29, 2011 07:55 PM

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Thanks guys - I just want the events to be the best they can be. J

Jim

Glover
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Bubba says Amen!

Rob Glover

On Sep 29, 2011, at 16:35, <mike@themapsmith.com> wrote:

I've told you this before Jim, but another "You Rock" couldn't hurt.

You Rock!

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 1:26 pm

Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make
it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and
the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to
export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into
his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import
back into my program. Then I'll run my stats and see if it still looks as
good.

Piece of cake. J

Jim

<mailto:mike@themapsmith.com> mike@themapsmith.com
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
From: Don Harban < <mailto:misterharban@cox.net> misterharban@cox.net>
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am

Go to <http://gliderscore.com> gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses
loose and remembered
the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
described and to specifically score F3K comps.

I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban < <mailto:misterhar...@cox.net>
misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:

> I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> of course frequency conflicts.
>
> It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> that.
>
> In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> you are satisfied.
>
> If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
> On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, < <mailto:m...@themapsmith.com> m...@themapsmith.com>

wrote:

>
>
>

> > Jim, try gliderscore here...

<http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-left-screw-mounted-cabinet-hanger>
http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

>

> >

>

> > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly

distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar
to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be
to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So
the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out
recurrances.

>

> >

>

> > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his

RCGroups contact.

>

> >

>

> > Cheers,

>

> >

>

> > Mike

>

> >

>

> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > From: "Jim Monaco" < <mailto:jimso...@earthlink.net>

> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am

you know I regularly run F3J events and handle all the matrix and scoring
tasks. In the past I have always generated the flight matrix using a random
assignment and rarely have any complaints. However, I am now looking at
generating the fairest possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and
have run a number of tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a
pilot flies against another an inordinate number of times or very few times.
I ain't the sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on
how to improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group.
I am a programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

>

> >

>

> > Here are the constraints:

>

> > 1. There are 10 teams

>

> > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots

a BYE will fill the empty slots).

>

> > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a

round)

>

> > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against

another team member.

>

> > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

>

> >

>

> > Here is what I have attempted so far:

>

> > 1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team

every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I
then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the
flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams
have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

>

> > 2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I

calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run
1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I
compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.
For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then
add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average
standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates
the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum
standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

>

> > ...

>

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 #15 Jim Monaco Sep 29, 2011 07:55 PM

RE: Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

No I haven't Rob - but that should be possible. Is there a benefit for
that?

Jim

Glover
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 6:50 PM
Subject: Re: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

Jim -

Have you given any thought to submitting J with winches rules to AMA for
consideration as a rulebook event?

Thanks for the good work

Rob Glover

On Sep 29, 2011, at 15:26, "Jim Monaco" <jimsoars@earthlink.net> wrote:

Thanks for this pointer. I downloaded the program and I can probably make
it work. I generated a matrix from the test data that he has in there and
the STDDEV is much smaller than the ones I was seeing. Now the magic is to
export the registration and team data from my DB, reformat it to import into
his DB, run the matrix and then export his data and reformat it to import
back into my program. Then I'll run my stats and see if it still looks as
good.

Piece of cake. J

Jim

mike@themapsmith.com
Sent: Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations

And F3J comps as well. It will work for you Jim.

Mike

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [RCSE] Re: F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
From: Don Harban <misterharban@cox.net>
Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 11:00 am

Go to gliderscore.com. I just shook the synapses loose and remembered
the site. The program is already set up to generate the matrices you
described and to specifically score F3K comps.

I've been evaluating it for other uses and will publish an article

Happy Landings,

Don

On Sep 29, 12:40 pm, Don Harban <misterhar...@cox.net> wrote:

> I've been looking at a glider scoring program developed by an Aussie
> and widely used for nearly every kind of comp there and in Europe. I
> am on the road right now, and cannot remember the source. But it has
> Avery sophisticated matrix routine which appears to be effective for
> nearly any number of contestants and flight groups. It is a complete
> scoring program, facilitating such things as throw outs, reflies and,
> of course frequency conflicts.
>
> It will generate flight matrices, score cards and round-by-round
> results. It will score teams and resolve team conflicts within
> rounds. It is a stand alone, not requiring excel or anything like
> that.
>
> In dealing with matrices it will not only create the matrices, but it
> will furnish a ton of statistical information on the matrices that it
> forms and allow unlimited retries (with statistical breakdowns) until
> you are satisfied.
>
> If you are interested I will furnish more information when I get home.
>
> Happy Landings,
>
> Don
>
> On Sep 29, 12:22 pm, <m...@themapsmith.com> wrote:
>
>
>

> > Jim, try gliderscore here...

http://absupply.net/hafele-29002701-...cabinet-hanger...

>

> >

>

> > Joe Wurts says it does a pretty good job of getting a non random, evenly

distributed flight matrix developed. He says that it uses a program similar
to one he designed to do just what you are attempting to do. Goal should be
to get each pilot to fly against other pilots an even amount of times. So
the software has to check for previous pilot matches and throw out
recurrances.

>

> >

>

> > Hope this helps. You could contact Joe directly, but I only have his

RCGroups contact.

>

> >

>

> > Cheers,

>

> >

>

> > Mike

>

> >

>

> > -------- Original Message --------
> > Subject: [RCSE] F3J Flight Matrix Calculations
> > From: "Jim Monaco" <jimso...@earthlink.net>
> > Date: Thu, September 29, 2011 10:15 am
> > To: <rcse@googlegroups.com>As many of you know I regularly run F3J

events and handle all the matrix and scoring tasks. In the past I have
always generated the flight matrix using a random assignment and rarely have
any complaints. However, I am now looking at generating the fairest
possible matrix for the US F3J Team Selections and have run a number of
tests and often see anomalies in the matrix where a pilot flies against
another an inordinate number of times or very few times. I ain't the
sharpest pencil in the box, so I could use some suggestions on how to
improve the matrix from some of the smart math people in the group. I am a
programmer so if I understand the algorithm I can program it.. :)

>

> >

>

> > Here are the constraints:

>

> > 1. There are 10 teams

>

> > 2. Each team consists of 4 pilots (if there are less than 4 pilots

a BYE will fill the empty slots).

>

> > 3. Each pilot will fly once in a round (so there are 4 groups in a

round)

>

> > 4. Pilots on the same team are protected and will never fly against

another team member.

>

> > 5. We will schedule 24 total rounds in the matrix

>

> >

>

> > Here is what I have attempted so far:

>

> > 1. Pure random - for each round I process each team. On each team

every pilot has a fixed pilot number between 1 and 4 (including BYES). I
then compute a random sequence of the position numbers 1-4 and assign the
flight group based on that sequence. Repeat for each team. When all teams
have been computed for a round I go on to compute the next round.

>

> > 2. Random with statistical preference - I do the above, but I

calculate a factor to use in determining the variance in the matrix and run
1000 trials and select the one with the least variance. To do this I
compute and record how many time each pilot flies against the other pilots.
For each pilot I compute the standard deviation of these numbers. I then
add all the pilots standard deviations together and compute the average
standard deviation for the entire matrix. I pick the matrix that generates
the lowest standard deviation in 1000 trials. Generally I see a minimum
standard deviation of about 1.28. Some individual matrix SDs are 1.9 or so.

>

> > ...

>

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