RC Groups - Micro Helis

Question 4#3b bell hiller phasing problems

blademaker22 — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:39:22 GMT

Hello all. Today I added bell-hiller mixing to my 4#3b head using CB100 mixer arms. I was rather excited as I assumed it would turn this heli into the ultimate indoor FP machine. As I expected, the modification eliminated the bothersome latency between control input and rotor disk response. It is now very responsive and does not appear to have lost any stability. The cyclic authority is good enough for controlled hovers in ground effect (previously near impossible).

The problem is, whenever I get it moving, it starts to roll 90 degrees to the intended direction. If I send it foreward it will quickly begin to roll left. The problem seems to worsen with increased control stick deflection. In order to sustain foreward flight, I need to put in a substantial amount of right cyclic.

When I hold the heli in my hand with the rotor spinning, the flybar disk and the rotor disk will settle on different planes with control input. The flybar and rotor move in the same direction for the first fraction of a second following a command, then the rotor disk tilts off-plane while the flybar follows through and holds squarely in the intended direction.

The blade tracking is correct, there is no excessive vibration, and the mixer arms remain parallel when the flybar moves. I have been sitting here scratching my head, changing linkages around, and altering bell/hiller ratios but the effect remains the same. From what I can see, there should be no reason this modification should change the phasing. Am I missing something huge? Do all bell-hiller 4#3 helis exhibit this tendency?

Download NEW Paper Canopies - Walkera 4G6 (4G3, and others?)

Mr. RPM — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 03:32:19 GMT

Thought I'd start a paper canopy thread that can be shared. I will post mine here for download, feel free to post your designs, info, or links to the other ones out there!

I have two done and will post print files soon. Started with the shape design I saw from Jaimerioco, changed it a bit, and will do various color schemes. Very quick and easy to shape; I plan on having a bunch of designs.... different schemes for different sky colors or mood :)

TEASER: Printable files coming soon... just have to do final adjustments. (I would post the JPEGs but they are over 1MB, so can't be. Pictures attached.....

"Phantomic" may be recognized as the famous Canomod "Phantom" design. The other is my original work. :cool:

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Discussion Which Walkera Heli to buy? CB100, 4#6, 4G6??????

blepkowski — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 02:40:43 GMT

I am very interested in purchasing a micro heli and am really drawn to the Walkera's but am completely stumped on what I should get!

I've read most of the threads, watched videos, read manuals etc. in an attempt to make a informed purchase/decision.

I started out looking at CB100's then saw the 4#6 that looks to be coming out soon and now I'm contemplating just going all out for a 4G6! I've never flown a heli before so I'm not sure if going CP off the bat is a big mistake or not.

I'm also not sure if a tail motor or shaft drive is a better choice but because I see the new 4#6 coming out with a shaft drive (instead of tail motor driven) I'm guessing there must be a reason? More stable tail? Less power drain???

I of course want something durable that can take a bump or two without needing a major overhaul or adjustments to be flying again. I also want the training bars to help minimize damage and thus aide in learning and enjoyment.

I was hoping to draw off your experiences and expertise on whats the best model to purchase!

Thank you!!!!!!!!!

Discussion Can I use my Parkzone Radian charger to charge the Blade CX2 batteries?

gdavis9999 — Sat, 21 Nov 2009 00:27:04 GMT

Can I use my Parkzone Radian charger to charge the Blade CX2 batteries?

Discussion Hands Free Hover gone

1340 — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:49:23 GMT

Had what I thought was a minor crash, about 7 feet up. Now the hands free hover I had is gone. Cyclic controls are touchy, and along with the rudder require constant input. Seems to need more throttle also. Had to retrack the main blades, but can't keep it hover in one spot long enough to check headspeed/pitch. It's become a bit of a handful.
Any ideas on what my problem might be and how to fix it?
Thanks.

Discussion Hands Free Hover gone

1340 — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:38:49 GMT

Had what seemed like a minor crash (7 feet high), now hands free hover is gone. Cyclic controls are very touchy, needing constant input. Rudder also needs constant input. Heli tends to go in a circle while maintaining tail in.
Reset main blade tracking, but can't keep Heli hovering in one spot long enough to check headspeed/pitch. Seems to require more throttle than usual also.
Any ideas on my problem, and how to fix it?
Thanks.

Discussion honeybee king 2 spinning

alvinho — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:31:49 GMT

Hello everyone,
I am having a problem with my new honeybee king 2, and I hope some one can help me.

I have been flying plane for years, but this is my first helicopter.

The problem is , the Helicopter cannot stop rotating on its vertial axis.
First I thought that it was because the cheap original esky gyro, so I am testing it with a Detrum GY48V headklock gyro.
It looks like the gyro is try to stabilize it, but it seems that even though it applies full left rudder, the heli still wants to rotate clockwise.
Looks like the tail rotor can't produce enough thrust to hold the heli steady (and it is fully deflected).

Thanks for any feedbacks.
Thanks
Alvaro

Discussion Question about tail stability on Walkera 4#3B Double Brushless

Glasswalker — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 16:05:45 GMT

Hey, I have a 4#3B which is brand new, just got it yesterday.

I'm also fairly new to the heli scene. Built a 450, and crashed it good lol, figured I'd get a micro to practice on indoors while I wait for summer to get the 450 fixed. (also figured if I could tame a twitchy micro over the winter, by summer I would be able to master a 450 no problem lol)

Anyway, when I first got it I was a bit paranoid after smashing up my 450 lol... So I was just throttling enough to skim around on the ground and get a feel for it. But when I did this, it was spinning clockwise quite badly (the tail motor was revving up alot). I played with it a bit but couldn't get it to hold pointing the same direction.

So I thought maybe the gyro adjustments are off, so I adjusted the pot on the rx... tried lower sensitivity, that didn't help, so I tried higher sensitivity, that didn't help either (neither appeared to have any effect actually). So I reset it to approximately where it was and kept poking at it...

Tried adjusting the trim on the left stick for rudder, and managed to get it not to spin, but only with like 20% - 30% trim adjustment, which seems odd to me, shouldn't need to trim it that far I would think.

Anyway, then by mistake I hovered it about a foot off the ground, and once it got up about 6 inches, it stopped spinning and the tail held (but it had spun like 180 degrees).

So I dialed the trim back down, and got a bit braver and tried hovering it in the air a few times. smacked it into some blankets once, and a cushion, and then some chair legs... no visible damage, everything still works like out of the box. But consistently when I am taking off it spins about 90 degrees clockwise, then once in the air it holds relatively well.

So my question is, what should I adjust to compensate for this? is something out of whack? or is this just how these helis behave?

Just trying to get used to it. because once it's in the air I can actually hover it now for about 10 seconds before I start to loose control, but having to wrangle the rudder back to tail-in every time sometimes makes me loose control, so it would be nice to be able to just take off and hover it tail in without the twitch like that...

Is that something that tail mixing could fix? (I have the 2801E TX). The tail mixing menu is locked on the TX right now in 2401 mode, but I could try it in a different mode to unlock those menus.

Any suggestions or help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Discussion RX2406B on Walkera 4#3B With 2801-E TX

Glasswalker — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:54:23 GMT

Hey, been a while since I posted, finally got my hands on a micro heli to practice on indoors while I wait for summer to get my 450 repaired :)

Anyway I decided on a walkera this time, so I had something RTF (less chance of me screwing the mechanics up so I can get more actual flight practice in).

I decided to go with the double brushless kit, figuring brushless motors have a bit better lifespan than brushed, and the brushed motors on the walkera micros have a history of dying fast.

I also chose to go with the 2801E computer TX because I plan on picking up maybe a couple other walkera helis in the future, and it looked like a nice radio, with a robust set of features.

Anyway when I got it, and fired up the heli, things worked great out of the box which was nice. It came pre-programmed for the 4#3B and a 4G3.

But I was a bit dissapointed to find that I couldn't access the expo, or curve menus at all. They appeared to be locked out. (and those are features I really looked forward to using for dialing in the performance on the little 4#3B heli).

After some digging it appears these features are unlocked in the 2801 RX compatibility mode, and the 4#3B was running in 2401 RX compatibility mode.

The RX I have on the heli is the 2406B. Does anyone know if I can use this RX with thie 2801 in 2801 Mode? so that I can access the extra features? Or do I need a different RX altogether?

And if that's the case, which RX would allow the features to be unlocked, but still work with this heli? being as the 2406B is a 4 in 1, including gyro.

I kind of like the feel of this radio better than my DX6i, and the features are all there, as long as it all works as expected, I may actually prefer this radio in the end (and buy a new walkera RX for my 450 and sell off my DX6i and Spektrum RX).

Anyway, any feedback you can offer would be appreciated! Thanks!

Discussion CB180D Canopy Options

JHawk19 — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 15:15:04 GMT

I've asked this before in the CB180D forum, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to have a stand alone thread.

I'm looking for new/different canopies for the CB180D. I've been told that I can use the TRex 250 canopies, but those seem somewhat expensive ($20-$40) and they are fiberglass, which means they'll add weight (right :confused:).

So does anyone know of a canopy that I can use to replace the stock canopy?
How about a blank canopy that I can mask/paint.

Help! need help please

marcrc1997 — Fri, 20 Nov 2009 03:08:17 GMT

hi well just bought a 4g3 brand new double brushless,metal and on my first flight i tried to hover but cant control tail i tried changing the mixing on 4n1 tried to turn off and on dips 12 and 8 so i tried to do some 8s lol but i crashed and when saw there was a screw missing lol and the feathering shaft was bent the screw it was not tightened very well so i think maybe thatscrew of the mixing arms was making the heli so unstable and maybe when i got it out of the box the feathering shaft was bent because when i crashed it,it was on grass and it was not that hard to bent the feathering shaft.so what you guys think is making the tail so unstable?:)

thanks.:eek:

Question Walkera CB100 pros-cons-and fixes

jackclarke — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:31:56 GMT

Walkera appears to have it gotten it "right" this time with a tail-rotor micro heli that rivals the stability of a coaxial using brushless motors and brushes away the E-Flite MSR as a toy. As to be expected - rave reviews include some minor criticisms - a few short comings - suggestions to improve - and of course modifications. Putting aside the rave reviews for a moment, many of us wanna-buys (myself included) would greatly benefit from some of you "already-haves" to hear about the most common problems and the best fixes. Thanks very much for your contribution. Jack

Cool HoneyBee CP3

terrapins — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:42:52 GMT

I noticed this on Xheli.. a 6ch Honeybee! Looks to be the same size in all respects as the 4ch... it's even the same price!

http://www.xheli.com/esky-honey-bee-cp3.html

But you get 6ch and a direct drive tail. Billed as a "3D trainer".. I really like this idea. Takes the $$$ fear out of stepping up to 6ch and is probably almost as cheap to repair as the HoneyBee FP.

Amazing. Anyone try this yet? Reviews?

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Discussion Spectrumized 4G6 with separates

neiAlex — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 19:41:42 GMT

Hello,
This thread will be on the 4G6 and taking out the all in one board and putting in separates so you can use a DSM2 Spectrum radio. I will be posting a how-to shortly and I welcome any and all questions.

Discussion mCX blades

JohnC — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:16:56 GMT

Even though I over a hundred flights on my mCX I am noob on Helies.

For a long time I could not get a stable hover. It would rock back and forth and side to side. No amount of trimming helped. Yesterday while relacing a top blade with a broken nub. I decided to weigh each blade on my scale. One was 1.01 grams and the other 1.02 grams. I flew the mCX and now it has a almost motion less hover. I would say the broken blade was either lighter or heavier than the one good blade. Another benfit the flight responce is now quicker.

Problem solved.

John F. Clarke

Discussion Novus CP/Walkera 4g3 Tail Issues

Air4ceFlyBoy — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 07:27:01 GMT

I just got my Novus CP less than a week ago in the mail, and have loved flying it. It was used off ebay, but in perfect condition. It was a little twitchy at first, but after we got aquainted it became a smooth flyer and will even sit still in a hover...for a micro-second. ;)

Here's the problem, on the fourth or fifth flight I noticed the tail starting to act erratic. I chalked it up to a dying battery, and after replacing the battery, flew again. This time the heli entered a tail spin that I couldn't correct. I checked the tail rotor for slippage and made sure the gears from the motor to the rotor were in sync, and tried again. With full right trim and full right rudder, I couldn't stop the spin. I also noticed some whirring or grating sounds coming from the heli that didn't seem normal. I was lucky to get it down on the skids without hitting anything, because I was flying in a small office.

I'm guessing it's just a failed motor, and after reading some other posts, that doesn't seem all that uncommon for this heli. If anyone has other ideas, I'm listening. I ordered a complete replacement to go brushless on the main and tail motors (11,000kv main and the 2.9g with bearings for the tail). If anyone's done this mod please share your expertise and pictures, or point me in the direction of the thread.

Much appreciated,

-Crash

Discussion Sabre fp heli sub-micro conversion problems

Iplayguitar — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 04:09:05 GMT

Hi everyone! First of all I would like to introduce myself my name is Carlos and ive been into land rc since I was A kid(still am!:D) and i just recently got into helis. My problem currently is that I was looking to improve my helis preformance and came across this, http://www.helihobby.com/html/sub-micro.html and now that i've completed the conversion, my heli wont even take off the ground!:( It seems it no longer has enough lift to pull itself off the ground! I followed it and cut accordingly (except for the landing skids and the tail skid, that remained uncut) can anyone help me please? I will post pics of my heli later I need to find my camcorder to take pics. thanks in advance! -Carlos

Discussion 4CH FP or 6CH CP?

JHawk19 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 13:24:00 GMT

If this is posted in the wrong section, please let me know...

I've been flying co-axials for 2 years and I recently purchased a CB180D. After flying this for a while, I'll be ready to move to a real fixed pitch heli.

I eventually want something that can go 3D. So, is it necessary to transition to a 4CH FP or can I go straight to a 6CH and take it slow? :confused:

I'm just thinking that it'll cost me $200 for a nice 4CH FP and then down the road another $200-$300 for a 6CH CP. Why not get a 6CH CP first and save $200, right?!?

Are there heli's out there that are 4CH & 6CH in one?

Cool Silver Bullet micro RC Heli - Infarade

guapoman2000 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:04:02 GMT

Hey Gals and Guys!

Holidays are coming soon and someone at the office had the itch to get one of these and wanted to share what we did at the office! Several of us joined in to get 8 of these beauties!

http://www.brookstone.com/mini-remot...licopters.html

I personally shopped at one of the Brookstone Stores in a large Mall here in Orlando, Florida and bought these for the get 2 for $50.00 so, I saved a little over $42.00 instead of buying them individually at $29.95!

The total bill was $213.00 including local tax of 6.5%.:)

I skipped the $4.00 replacement plan but, I did obtain a Gift receipt just in case those at the office would like to purchase one.

Heck, we are Engineers and Technicians such that if something breaks we can fix!:D Anyhow, the way the replacement works is they mail you a coupon to go back in the store and get yourself another one less local tax.:rolleyes:

It hovers and moves around the air like a dream and the blades just do not break!!:)

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Help! Novus FP tail boom replacment

skyfly1715 — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 03:18:57 GMT

Ok I have Novus FP, and the tail boom needs to be replaced cause it finally broke. Tough little helicopter I might add, pretty impressed with all the hits its taken. Anyways, umm...what the best way to get through this? Anyone?

Skyfly

Thank you in advance :D

Discussion Mini/Micro Helipad

sNstRflyEr4G3 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:40:25 GMT

Hey guys, im looking for a nice mini/micro helipad. Ive searched online and was shocked not to find any. Ive seen a few of you guys with real nice pads, can i get some links please. Ive made my own and it looks nice, but its made from cardboard, construction paper, and sharpie. Im looking for a nice rubber one or something similiar, and maybe a little bigger than the one posted. Id like to use it for 250 class as well. Thanks.:)
Jesse

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Discussion blade mSR and dx6i elevator travel?

wparsons — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 23:33:55 GMT

I just picked up a dx6i, and it seems like my mSR has much more limited elevator travel than with the RTF transmitter.

Aileron response is still just as quick.

Travel endpoints are at 125%, no dual rates or expo set up.

Is this anyone else has noticed, or is it all in my head?

Help! Mico Heli ID? Dragonfly?

FNFAL — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:58:29 GMT

I just inherited a few years old RC heli. Evidently, it was purchased on Ebay as an RTF. It's a 72mhz with NimH batteries. Fixed pitch main with a shaft driven tail rotor with beveled gears. It goes by the name "Dragonfly 22".

What vintage is this? Is this similar to any Hummingbird models? Who would sell parts?

It's going to need a little TLC to get her flying again.

Thanks in advance

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Help! Main Rotor Dynam

mj_developer — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 14:56:13 GMT

Hi,
My main rotor dynam has been languid and my micro helicopter doesn't fly. How can i solve this issue?

Thanks...:(

Discussion Walkera New Micro FP(tail gear driven)

LP2008 — Tue, 17 Nov 2009 07:32:58 GMT

Hi , I currently informed by friend that a new micro FP will be avaiable in Walkera. This is a helicopter similar to the size of micro 3D helicopter No.4G3 . The special of the new heli is the tail driven system. Pictures speak lounder than words. Show comes. :D

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Discussion Battery Question

JHawk19 — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:00:47 GMT

Can I switch the connectors on these batteries?

I need to use the blue batteries on the right, so can I take the connectors off of the batteries on the left and replace them?

Any tips?

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Discussion MSR swash on MCX

kramer — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:22:55 GMT

Anyone tried the msr swash on mcx?

Cool The Blade MCX challenge (open to all micro helis!)

carguy1994ca — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 18:21:18 GMT

Hi !

Lately I bought a blade MCX and i am having a blast with it. I posted in the e-zone review 3 short videos of tricks I am doing with my MCX. I call it "the MCX challenge" series.In the videos, I am trying to land and fly the MCX in all kind of odd places in the house (great fun on a rainy day).

Since lots of you guys are doing the same (check on youtube) I tought it would be great fun to have a thread to post our videos of tricks that we do with our litle fun helis !

So check my vids, and feel free to add your videos showing what you can do with your MCX: Tricks, landing challenge, manoeuvers !

Lets have fun !

Carguy

Vid #1 The kitchen

The MCX Challenge (2 min 3 sec)

Discussion ZBAR "Paddle-Less" Flybar Cyclics Demo (Take Two)

EQMOD — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:11:22 GMT

I may have presented this idea using a platform that is already in its "tuned" state without actually tackling the basic characteristics in the presentation;

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1142606

So here is the actual idea in a diagram and a couple of demo videos in its raw form;

In a true sense, a "z" shaped bar allows you to induce a cyclic on "straight portion" of the bar via the flybar control ring + swash while the "z" tips of the flybar with the added weights are locked in place along the gyroscopic plane - this without having to rely on the hiller paddles.

Here is a short video demo using a longer "z" shaped bar (emphasizing the cyclics effect) with the added small weights placed on the tips. Take note of the straight portion of the flybar as it pitches away from the gyroscopic plane forming an independent pitching rotating disc while the weights position remain constant within the gyroscope plane! As such, the flybar cyclics is always synchronized with the swash - as a result, Lag free, less wind drag "paddle-less" flybar cyclics that is almost synchronized with the main rotor blade cyclics !

* i have detached the pitch links on this demo to remove that influence from the mixing arms.

ZBAR: Paddle-Less Flybar Cylics Demo 1 - using Light weights (1 min 17 sec)

Here is another video demo using "heavier" weights and a shorter zbar;

ZBAR: Paddle-Less Flybar Cylics Demo 1 - using slight heavy weights (1 min 41 sec)

and you wouldnt believe how "edgy", aggressive, and crisp the cyclics are by simply using a flybar without the paddles (it defies the basic rotor head design and the intended flight response :)). Its like flying the heli less of the cyclic response delays and even at small stick movements, cyclics is not dampened by the flybar. ;)

ZBAR: Paddle-Less Flybar Cylics Demo and actual flight test (2 min 12 sec)

UPDATE:

Aside from being more agile and edgy, she can hover pretty well as the standard flybar characteristics is still there ...

ZBAR: Paddle-Less Flybar Cylics Demo Hover and throttle punches (1 min 37 sec)

Hmmm .. looks like a possible mod for the CB100 head ? ;)

Mini-Review Walkera UFLY helicopter mini review

ehirobo — Mon, 16 Nov 2009 04:37:24 GMT

Introduction:
Following the development for shaft driven helicopter from Walkera, the newest additional to Walkera model lineup is the UFLY. A shaft drive medium size helicopter with aluminum alloy rotor head, the usually RTF configuration with all necessary accessory included (battery, charger, radio, etc), brushless motors, etc. As shaft driven tail driven tail offer better rudder control compare to separate tail motor system, it should make this little heli quite stable for both indoor and outdoor flying.

Preflight check:
As usual in Walkera fashion the helicopter come 100% build and tested. And well protected inside coloured box. Battery and chargers were included. After charging the battery during the bench test I notice the swash is slightly forward. One turn with the elevator push rod fix this issue. Another good point about this kit is it come with brushless motor and full aluminum rotor head already. No more burn out brushed motor and the aluminum head make the heli more crash resistance and slop free for longer service life.

Flight test:
As expect for a FP helicopter it is quite stable. The initial setting there are slight tail hunt, simple fix by decreasing the gyro gain by around 5min and everything work flawlessly. The heli fly really nice and does it�s job nicely. One thing I don�t like about it is the blades. They are made by the same materials as the cb180 which do offer some flex but will break during hard impact. It would be nice if Walkera can replace it with materials which flex a bit more so it would be more crash resistance.

Conclusion:
Nice RTF heli. If you are like me which is very lazy and what to fly it as soon as you get it. Try this one. It is very simple to setup and fly. And due to it�s medium size it can be easily flown indoor, but not too small so it is still very stable and can fly outdoor if desire. The only thing I don�t like about this heli is the blades and hope Walkera can improve on this in the future.

Pros:
RTF
Very stable tail
High quality construction
New 2402 LCD transmitter
Brushless motor and lipo battery

Cons:
Plastic rotor blades
Slight tail hunt with the initial setup

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