heli help

[dazzzer1]

hi i fly rc planes but wouldn't mind learning to fly heli . i have heard its not as easy as it looks , im wondering what would be a good starter heli for me . im in the uk.

[Balr14]

There is no easy answer, it's largely a matter of budget and commitment. Generally speaking, it's easier to learn with larger and more expensive helis, than with smaller and cheaper helis. But, aside from the initial expense, repairing crash damage can be quite nasty on a big heli.

If you just want to get a feel for it without a huge financial commitment, A Blade CX2 or E-Sky Lama V4 is a good place to start. These are coax helis, so they don't fly well outdoors in any kind of wind and are nowhere near as difficult to fly as any single rotor heli. But, they do give you a taste for what you are getting into.

Your age is a factor, too. If you are over 40 it's going to take you a lot longer to learn and you really need to take baby steps. RC helis require "video game like" reflexes and coordination. Absolutely the best advise I can give you is find out the age of the person giving you advise and act accordingly. I'm 65.

[dazzzer1]

im 30, i guess i really want to get a feel for it first to see what its about, i will always put my planes first i love flying them.

I was looking at the ESky Honey Bee LiPo 2.4G to start with .

[Balr14]

im 30, i guess i really want to get a feel for it first to see what its about, i will always put my planes first i love flying them.

I was looking at the ESky Honey Bee LiPo 2.4G to start with .

The Honey Bee LiPo 2.4G (HBFP) is a fixed pitch heli. Fixed pitch helis are not easy to fly because their responses tend to be mushy. They aren't particulary easy to fly in the wind because the blade shape catches air. But, beginners shouldn't be trying to fly in the wind anyway.

This is a good beginner for somebody your age. You will crash a lot, but the HBFP is cheap and easy to repair. Get the training gear, though. Of course, if you can afford it, a good simulator is excellent additional training. You will find your RC plane experience doesn't do much good for flying helis. But, you will find RC planes really easy afterwards.

[dazzzer1]

or i could get the Honey Bee King 2 it has a bit more weight , its 6ch ?

[dazzzer1]

theres also a blade 400 rtf with large training set

[Balr14]

The HBK2 or Blade 400 are both larger CP helis and both require upgrades. I'd choose the Blade 400 of the two, less upgrades needed. But, more to the point, when you crash either of these it's going to cost you in both time and money. A simple tip-over can do $20-$50 damage and require several hours to repair. A similar incident with the HBFP may result in $1.50 damage and 5 minutes down-time. Many simple incidents with an HBFP are simply straightening out the blades and keep in flying. With no heli experience, you are going to crash a lot. That doesn't mean you shouldn't do it; just be aware of what it means.

If money is not an issue, you may wish to consider the TT Innovator 530. By all accounts it's an incredibly stable CP heli that's highly configurable to your skill level, from beginner to expert. They are a little out of my price range just now, but friends who have them tell me they are a large CP equivalent of the Hirobo SRB Quark. Time will tell if they are as durable or as good.

[jasmine2501]

i have heard its not as easy as it looks
Whoever is out there making this look easy I want their name! :D

It is a skill like any other - karate, playing the piano, spelling - you have to practice, be motivated, and learn the knowledge you need to be successful.

If you don't have a simulator, get one right away. It will save you hundreds of dollars - literally... so don't be afraid to spend a little money on a good one. This will allow you to get a whole lot more practice without risking your actual helicopter.

Keep your motivation up - don't get discouraged by crashes - it happens to all of us, and you haven't earned your wings until you have a few crashes under your belt. This will also help you learn to repair your helicopter and keep it in good working condition.

The other thing you need is to make sure you actually know what you're doing. If something seems weird, research the issue and find out what's going on. If you can't find the answer yourself, ask about it. Nobody becomes an artist without learning to mix paint.

I am not a member of the FP flight school - I don't think it's necessary to start with anything less than a Blade 400/Trex 450 - but you must be dedicated, disciplined, and have experience in order to go that route. If you have airplane experience it will help, as will simulator practice. If you don't have experience with simulators or airplanes, you will be missing some basic skills that apply to everything in RC - visualization, control feel, anticipation, etc... and in that case, you'll want to start with a coaxial like the Blade mCX or the Blade CX2/CX3. Yes, the coaxials can get boring after a while, but they train valuable skills and being disciplined enough to get through the boring part and learn those skills will help you avoid doing costly damage to a helicopter, or injuring yourself or someone else.

[dazzzer1]

im thinking about getting a Honey Bee King 2

[Skarn]

I'm with Jaz...her last paragraph says it all.....get at least a 450 size heli or larger if you want to avoid the frustration of learning on a micro heli. Yes, it can be done, but a 450 size heli is so much more stable.

But with that said, if money is a big issue, you can indeed learn on a small micro heli....I did and many others have. It will just take even more patience and dedication than the larger heli's would.

Good luck!
Skarn

[dazzzer1]

ok i was looking at the Blade 400 3D RTF would this be ok for me to learn on

[jasmine2501]

ok i was looking at the Blade 400 3D RTF would this be ok for me to learn on

It would be fine, but only if you are disciplined enough to get the required experience first. If you have experience with planes, you will understand issues such as nose-in orientation, delicate control inputs, and how to anticipate your route. If not, it is probably best to start with a coaxial.

I was flying a Blade 400 for someone over the weekend. They asked me to take a look at it because it was "all messed up" and wouldn't stay still, and they thought the tail was too sensitive. I made a few small adjustments to level the swash, then I took out out to fly - it is one of the smoothest and most stable Blade 400s I've flown with the possible exception of my own. Even in a 15mph wind it was flying very nicely. I told them they just need to practice making smaller inputs and staying ahead of it. In fact, I would prefer the tail to be more sensitive than where they have it. So, what's going on there is the new pilot has not learned to make their input small enough. When you have learned things like this, then you are ready for bigger helicopters. The simulator will teach you this. Coaxials really won't, but they will teach orientation and planning ahead.

Watch this... even when I get to zooming around, the control inputs are ridiculously small... you need to learn this light touch somehow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dz0ibMl2mk

[dazzzer1]

It would be fine, but only if you are disciplined enough to get the required experience first. If you have experience with planes, you will understand issues such as nose-in orientation, delicate control inputs, and how to anticipate your route. If not, it is probably best to start with a coaxial.

I was flying a Blade 400 for someone over the weekend. They asked me to take a look at it because it was "all messed up" and wouldn't stay still, and they thought the tail was too sensitive. I made a few small adjustments to level the swash, then I took out out to fly - it is one of the smoothest and most stable Blade 400s I've flown with the possible exception of my own. Even in a 15mph wind it was flying very nicely. I told them they just need to practice making smaller inputs and staying ahead of it. In fact, I would prefer the tail to be more sensitive than where they have it. So, what's going on there is the new pilot has not learned to make their input small enough. When you have learned things like this, then you are ready for bigger helicopters. The simulator will teach you this. Coaxials really won't, but they will teach orientation and planning ahead.

Watch this... even when I get to zooming around, the control inputs are ridiculously small... you need to learn this light touch somehow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dz0ibMl2mk
coo! Im thinking would it be better to buy a sim like-.RC Flight Simulators - and learn what i can on the simulator , like spend a few months using the simulator , then decide what heli i want?

[smh20502]

You've asked what appears to be a simple question but really has a complex answer.

I tried to respond but kept getting long winded, so I'll shorten it up here. If you want more precise of an answer contact me and we'll discuss and post the necessary parts here

1.) Get a simulator. I have realflight 3.5 and it's done wonders for me but there are several others to choose from

2.) Fly what you can afford to crash. You will crash and often as a newbie. Don't let it get you down as its part of the hobby. The harder you fly the more you'll crash.

3.) What type of power plant do you want? Since you fly planks you probably already have the nitro support equipment...if that's the case then go nitro...Electric is an extra expense that may not be necessary

4.) What size? generally determined by your pocket book...but remember **A smaller rotating disk is less stable than a larger one**
I started with the 450's and spent more money and frustrating time building and rebuilding because they are so twitchy. Sure you can tame it down in a computer radio, flybar weights etc...It's still less stable. At minimum a 30 size but a 50 is more reasonable. The cost isn't too much more and you'll be able to advance to 3D aerobatics with a 50. The 30 size engine lacks the power to do precise 3D but it will do some fun aerobatics

5.) What do you want to do? General fun fly, aerobatic, 3D

6) find an experienced heli pilot to fly with...buddy box if you can

I can get into the many mistakes I made as a newbi....but that would take too long.

Remember the true masters are the one's that make the most mistakes...and learn from them.

[dazzzer1]

OK im just wondering if you anyone knows if my specs are ok for this simulator they require for following

Microsoft Windows 2000/XP/Vista
• Microsoft DirectX9c or higher
• 1GHz 100% Pentium III/4 or AMD Athlon/64 compatible processor
• Geforce 4200/ATI 9600 with 128MB
• 100% DirectX compatible soundcard (optional)
• 256MB RAM
• 750MB free disk space
• CD-ROM/DVD (for install)
• Free USB 1.1/2.0 port

my specs are xp, amd64, 128MB ATI Radeon x1300, 256ram.

[smh20502]

the Specs for each sim are different. Toms Free simulator will work fine http://sim.tomsrc.com/news.php

1.) Increase ram to 1gig if possible
2.) if you can expand the ram on your video card do it.
3.) XP is not a problem
4.) you'll have to check to see if the 64bit architechture is compatible...I know that the AMD 64 can run in 32...so the point is probably moot.

5.) get a bigger HD. As you approach the max of HD space, they'll tend to start failing. General rule of thumb...allot a 15% buffer between free space and HD size

[smh20502]

the Specs for each sim are different. Toms Free simulator will work fine http://sim.tomsrc.com/news.php

1.) Increase ram to 1gig if possible
2.) if you can expand the ram on your video card do it.
3.) XP is not a problem
4.) you'll have to check to see if the 64bit architechture is compatible...I know that the AMD 64 can run in 32...so the point is probably moot.

5.) get a bigger HD. As you approach the max of HD space, they'll tend to start failing. General rule of thumb...allot a 15% buffer between free space and HD size

[dazzzer1]

i might hold of getting the blade 400 the parts are quite expensive . i would like to know what people think about the Trex 450 S RTF? the spare parts are a bit cheaper too. its about the same price as the blade 400 does it compare with it?,

[Skarn]

Any of the Trex's are very nice, but if cost is an issue, you have to factor in a few things;

- With a trex, you get a kit that you build. That's a good thing, since you will learn so much about building and setting it up, repairs won't scare you since you'll already know how to do them.
- With a trex you will have to get all of your own electronics (servo's, gyro, radio, battery, charger, etc.). I consider that a good thing since you will put in quality electronics from the get go, but the cost does add up.
- The B400 comes with everything you need right up front. BUT, you don't learn about setting it up or repairing. And the servo's aren't very good at all. But you do get a decent radio you can use in other heli's/planes.

So in reality, the trex kits are not the same price as the B400.

Skarn

[dazzzer1]

skarn the 450 S RTF is read to fly which means it all done for you just like the 400,

[Balr14]

i might hold of getting the blade 400 the parts are quite expensive . i would like to know what people think about the Trex 450 S RTF? the spare parts are a bit cheaper too. its about the same price as the blade 400 does it compare with it?,

Where did you find a Trex RTF?

[dazzzer1]

http://www.heliguy.com/Electric-RC-Helicopters/Trex-450/Main-Group/

they have the option to build or rtf

[dazzzer1]

Would this training gear work on the blade 400

http://www.heliguy.com/Electric-RC-Helicopters/Trex-450/400-450-Training-Kit/

[Balr14]

^^^^

Sure, but you can make your own. It's just a couple CF rods and 4 plastic balls that you tie to the skids.

The RTF Trex is an interesting idea. it's certainly a viable alternative to a B400.

[dazzzer1]

yer it is, its a bit more in price but its a good alternative to the b400, I think im going to get the B400 as my first heli . could i use metal clothing hangers as rods

[jasmine2501]

i might hold of getting the blade 400 the parts are quite expensive . i would like to know what people think about the Trex 450 S RTF? the spare parts are a bit cheaper too. its about the same price as the blade 400 does it compare with it?,

Here's my thoughts...

First, the Blade 400 parts are cheap. Just get it through your head right now that the cost of the Blade 400 is cheap, and the parts are cheap... they are average price for helicopters.

Second, RTF doesn't mean what it seems like it means. I highly advise going through the setup on an RTF completely, and having an expert take a look at it to make sure it's all set up properly. The drawback of RTF is that it's improperly named, and should really be called "fully assembled" - it may not be ready to fly.

For a first "RC anything" I don't recommend a "build it yourself" kit unless you have an expert to help you with it. There are basics of model building, radio setup, electronics safety, etc... and doing at least one "RTF" model will help you learn those basics, and they just confuse the issue when you're also try to build the whole thing.

Build your own training balls... the E-flite balls aren't quite strong enough for the Blade 400. It should be at least 3mm carbon fiber, and make sure the balls can spin (home made training balls shown in picture).

Also - plan to spend at least $600 to get going, and probably $800-1000 before you learn to fly decently. It's just a fact of CP helis, that's about the price range you're going to be in - so again, get over the idea that a $3 feathering shaft is "expensive" :)

[Balr14]

yer it is, its a bit more in price but its a good alternative to the b400, I think im going to get the B400 as my first heli . could i use metal clothing hangers as rods

No, they are too heavy and they bend easy.

[dazzzer1]

m not to good at making thing's like this but i found something online that could do the job. it says it for Blade 400

http://www.modelshopleeds.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2124

[Balr14]

Those would work.

[dazzzer1]

just try to get some and there out of stock , i was looking at another site they are a bit different but they say its for 400-450 Training Kit would these do the job?. i just want to make sure i have some for when my heli comes .

http://www.heliguy.com/Electric-RC-Helicopters/Trex-450/400-450-Training-Kit/

[jasmine2501]

just try to get some and there out of stock , i was looking at another site they are a bit different but they say its for 400-450 Training Kit would these do the job?. i just want to make sure i have some for when my heli comes .

http://www.heliguy.com/Electric-RC-Helicopters/Trex-450/400-450-Training-Kit/

Those would work, but I personally don't like them because the balls do not roll, and they are foam, which catches on things. The training balls which roll and slide very well allow your heli to spin on the ground and roll around - this is helpful when starting up, learning to hold the tail, and if you do a "sliding touch down" :)

[RD Gator]

Also try (Radd's School Of Rotary Flight ) Free Over the Web Download.
There are 10 lessens to download very good insight :rolleyes:
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

[RD Gator]

I tried this web. It still works.


http://www.littlerotors.com/flyinglessons/figureeights.asp

http://www.dream-models.com/eco/flying-index.html

[smh20502]

So, you're going for the blade 400. If at all possible, buddy box with someone...this will get you flying much faster and help to gain the much needed confidence.

RTF is not really RTF. You should, as a rule, make sure that your machine is trimmed and balanced before you even plug in a battery. Before that, make sure that all the screws have the necessary locktite or CA where necessary. This may require pulling all screws and giving a dab CA on screws where that screw into plastic and locktite where screws go into metal...

Get plenty of replacement parts...complete head assembly, extra pitch and control arms, flybars, main shafts, feathering shafts, tail boom, blades.

It sounds like a lot, but you'll be glad you have them available when you crash.

Stay away from aluminum parts for now. They look good but are heaver and don't flex in a crash and are more expensive to replace.

[dazzzer1]

About trimming i know how to trim a plane but i have never used a digital radio before or trimmed a heli,
For trimming what would be the best setting for a beginner on the dx6i?

[jasmine2501]

About trimming i know how to trim a plane but i have never used a digital radio before or trimmed a heli,
For trimming what would be the best setting for a beginner on the dx6i?

This is kind of complicated... best advice I can give is find an expert to help you get it set up right. A poorly trimmed helicopter can make it very hard to learn... and the trimming needs to be done right, or you'll have to do it all over again when you advance to 3D. If you don't have access to an expert to help you, the best thing you can probably do is simply to level the swash plate. Turn the helicopter on and adjust the swash linkages so the plate is level - this should not require more than 2-3 turns on any link. Use a triangle or something to see if the swash is 90 degrees from the main shaft in both directions, side and front.

Then when you are hovering, keep in mind that the helicopter needs to lean a bit to the right... it should hold this position - if there is a slow roll, trim it out using the levers. Then when you go back to it, check the direction of your trims, and make the same mechanical adjustment that you trimmed in - then re-center your trims on the radio. The idea is to get it to fly without rolling and with no trim entered on the radio. Of course, it is a little more complicated than that, and I highly recommend getting someone to show you the "right way" - but this way will work to get you going.

[dazzzer1]

will i need a pitch gauge for that

[jasmine2501]

will i need a pitch gauge for that

Did I mention anything about setting up the pitch?

Having the swash plate leveled will make it so the helicopter doesn't roll around by itself. This will make a huge difference in how it handles for a beginner - it is probably the single easiest adjustment with the biggest return.

There's a whole crapload of other stuff you can adjust too, which an expert should be able to help you with, and for that you might need a pitch gauge.

You should also track the blades too. There are videos and write-ups all over the web about how to do these things... Google them and learn how to do it. If you don't understand a particular article, read another one that explains it a different way, or try to find a video about it. Helicopter setup has been widely covered. There is no reason to write a whole lot more about it.

[dazzzer1]

i only know one friend who does fly helis but he always seems to crash them and never really has them in one Piece for long ,so i think ill pass on asking him.

but i have been looking at a few videos online, do you make the trim adjustment from the dx6i like in trim mode - sub trim ect.?.

this is the utube video i have been watching it seems a good way to do it could you tell me if its the best way for me to trim like you have said ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nny62ed5S2k&feature=related

[smh20502]

a pitch gauge is a tool you'll need in your tool box get one. You don't actually have to have one for the initial setup but it will help your bird and keep vibrations to a minimum. Everything is based on 90 and 0. if your blades are off a couple deg. it will throw off the rest of your 90 setup and cause unwanted vibrations.

Yep, a poorly trimmed and balanced heli is a bear to fly and almost impossible to learn on. If not done correctly you won't know if you're causing the problem or the heli.

don't know if this site here has the same information, but helifreak.com has a good beginners set of videos....watch all of them. heli skills and setup 101
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=52530 (register...it's free)

there is some good info at this site below...download the e-book, it's free
http://www.swashplate.co.uk/html/ehbg.html

setup...
the setup from the factory on the dx6i is probably ok but is separate from your birds setup. It's probably a bit premature at this time to start changing the standard settings.



1. make sure swash is level when sticks are centered...you can eyeball this but you'll be off a bit which will throw off the trim. Get a swash plate leveling tool, they are only a few dollars and you'll be glad you did

2.) when sticks are centered and the swash plate is leveled all your control arms should be at 90 deg. around your main shaft and your blades at 0 deg.(90 to the main shaft). Start at the swash and work your way up. (this is why building your own is beneficial. You'll learn this as you build)

3.) attach the battery to the bird-->get the flybar at 90 to the tail boom and frame--> grab the flybar gently with a couple fingers on each side of the head and slowly raise the bird off the ground...the skids should come up evenly. if the front of the skids are the last to leave the ground it's nose heavy....move the battery back a little...keep doing this till the skids lift evenly off the ground.


Remember, due to gyroscopic precession the helicopter will drift to the left. This is normal and takes a bit of getting used to. You simply apply a little right aileron to compensate. Soon you won't even notice it.

lets approach this in small steps. Trying to get you all the necessary information at one time is rather difficult as you can see.

One common response I've seen is to get an experienced heli pilot to help you. Don't make the mistake I did and go it alone...you'll just get frustrated and want to give it up.

You've been flying planks for a while...did you have any hands on help when you started?

[Balr14]

Watch Finless Bob's Trex setup videos.

[smh20502]

a properly leveled swash will have zero trim and zero sub trim. Only use the sub trim if you can not get the swash leveled by adjusting the links. Just like on your plane when adjusting control surfaces...you adjust the control linkages not the radio.

[smh20502]

Finless Bob is the guy who does the videos on helifreak....helped me tremendously.

don't recall if the previous link has the same data or not...but here is one that finless does for the 450

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=11373&highlight=trex+build

check out ccpm 1 and 2 as well as blade tracking

[jasmine2501]

^^^ These guys are giving you the right ways to do it. I gave you the quick and dirty way to do it - definitely not as good. It is the method I would use if I didn't have any tools, out at the field perhaps. It does require that you can hover the bird hands-off without freaking out, I kinda forgot about that. Just like with your planes, you can get it flying and see if it rolls or turns by itself, you can do this with the helicopter in order to level the swash plate - but it's a time-consuming process, and a noob could risk having a crash just working through the process, if things were pretty far off.

It is the method I had to use with my Trex 250, which I carefully set up before flying, but the plate was off such a small amount that it was impossible to see. I could tell it was off by flying it, but I couldn't see that it was off by using my home-made leveling tool. So by all means, if you don't have access to someone who can fly it and fix it, use the methods they posted with the leveling tool and all that.

[dazzzer1]

ok im just wondering if the blade 400 will come ok and i might not need trimming . i found this tool i think its the one you need for trimming ?

http://www.buzzflyer.co.uk/RC-Helicopter-Accessories/Tools/Swash-Level-Tool/p-90-102-634/

[dazzzer1]

ok i think i understand how to get the Swash Plate Level now using that tool!. it has to sit evenly on the swash no gaps and if they are gaps i have to turn the control rods ive right or left until its all level . well i think that right? its different from trimming an rc plane i think it looks harder .

[Balr14]

ok im just wondering if the blade 400 will come ok and i might not need trimming . i found this tool i think its the one you need for trimming ?

http://www.buzzflyer.co.uk/RC-Helicopter-Accessories/Tools/Swash-Level-Tool/p-90-102-634/

That gadget certainly can't hurt. It's entirely possible your B400 will not require trimming or adjusting. But, at least you need to be aware enough to check it. I bought a small plastic level and popped the little liquid bubble tubes out to use for leveling my heli components.

[dazzzer1]

That gadget certainly can't hurt. It's entirely possible your B400 will not require trimming or adjusting. But, at least you need to be aware enough to check it. I bought a small plastic level and popped the little liquid bubble tubes out to use for leveling my heli components.
yer thank you for making me aware of this! i sure hope it does come trimmed good , theres so much to learn i could do with learning to fly with it before i start taking it apart lol . but it looks easy enough to do, now i have read up and seen pic's , so if i think it needs doing i will get it done.

[dazzzer1]

this was the guide i was looking at with this type of tool. looks easy enough to do with this.

http://www.buzzflyer.co.uk/swash-level-guide.asp

[jasmine2501]

That gadget certainly can't hurt. It's entirely possible your B400 will not require trimming or adjusting. But, at least you need to be aware enough to check it. I bought a small plastic level and popped the little liquid bubble tubes out to use for leveling my heli components.

Of course this requires that the shaft is going straight up and down. That's one reason the little tool, the allen wrench trick, or eye-balling it with a triangle might be easier.

Also applicable when checking the CG - if the back of the skids come up first, but the heli isn't on a perfectly level surface, it doesn't tell you anything.

[TMorita]

The heli won't hover well with a perfectly level swashplate anyway. It will drift in the direction of the tail rotor thrust.

In order to be be adjusted properly the swashplate needs to be slightly tilted against the direction of the tail rotor thrust. Therefore, it's good enought to eyeball it to be mostly level, then fine-tune it later.

Also, if the CG is even slightly off, you'll have to compensate for this with the swashplate also.

Toshi

[jasmine2501]

The heli won't hover well with a perfectly level swashplate anyway. It will drift in the direction of the tail rotor thrust.


Do you really think it's a good idea to counteract that by tilting the swash plate though? I just fly the heli slanted a little bit. I've been told that tilting the swash plate will cause a slow roll, and it will eventually over-come the tail and start sliding to the right, but now that you say this, I'm not sure - so what do you think? I set mine up so that when I find the right slant and it's hovering in one spot, it won't roll - that way when I turn inverted, it won't be backwards, it's still flat. As far as I can tell, after this setup, the swash is still level - not slanted to the right...

[smh20502]

go watch the videos on helifreak under finlessbob's helifreak tech room. In fact you should register there and look at their blade 400 section.

jasmine2501 is correct. A tilted swash is not good. I
initially did this because I didn't understand the drift and being new didn't understand how to compensate...simple, a little left aileron. If the entire heli is drifting equally you'll be all right.

Only tilt the swash if you just feel you can't handle the drift. (it's better to compensate with trim than with a mechanical tilt...as you get more and more comfortable you can take it out on your TX with out touching the heli)

The drifting you'll only really notice in hover. In forward flight, loops, flips etc you will need a level swash to keep good gyroscopic balance throughout the maneuver.

There is the CG thing again. All heli's need to balance on the main shaft. Remember put the flybar 90 to the frame--pick up with your fingers either side of the head...the entire skid should lift at once.

Like we've said...find a good heli pilot in your area. It always helps to see all this first hand with someone that knows what they are doing.

I had to learn on my own, so I have the experience of what not to do. If money is no object go about this with no instructor like I did...you actually will learn quite a bit, Mostly of what not to do...but isn't that how we all really learn? How many of us actually listened to our parents...we had to make mistakes before we found out how smart they were.

[dazzzer1]

my blade 400 has just arrived , looks really good! just hope i can keep it like that lol. still waiting on my simulator. might have a look at the dx6i radio and see how to use it.

[dazzzer1]

i think the guy from the shop might have tested it out . i think its already been binded . when i put the power on the dx6i it says blade 400.

well im reading a lot about the dx6i there quite a bit to it

[dazzzer1]

hi can anyone tell me how i add other models to the dx6i . im trying to use it with phoenix sim and i need to save a new model list to the dx6i . it keeps showing the blade 400 on the screen.

[smh20502]

With the TX off...Press and hold the roller...button....turn on. You should have a model select screen.

check page 24 of the manual. If you don't have one go to the below link and download

http://www.spektrumrc.com/ProdInfo/Files/SPM6600_DX6i_Manual-LoRes.pdf

[smh20502]

Now that you have the heli....as a good habit to get into...Make sure all the screws are properly tightened. It would be wise to put locktite (blue) on all the metal to metal screws and CA on all the plastic to metal screws.

Jesus nut
ball links (balls- the plastic link will be ok without any ca)
control levers
main gear screw
tail (all screws)

if you have locknuts on your blades you probably don't have to worry about ca or locktite.

(don't over tighten the blades. they need a little play. only tighten them enough to keep the blade from falling when tilted sideways)

This may seem like a burden but it will do two things. 1. get you familiar with the heli. 2. ensure that the screws don't back out during flight.

Always check the screws before a flight.

[dazzzer1]

ive been using the simulator man this is hard , im using phoenix in hover training using the blade 400, with out touching any controls is the blade 400 ment to spin around on its own.?

[dazzzer1]

Now that you have the heli....as a good habit to get into...Make sure all the screws are properly tightened. It would be wise to put locktite (blue) on all the metal to metal screws and CA on all the plastic to metal screws.

Jesus nut
ball links (balls- the plastic link will be ok without any ca)
control levers
main gear screw
tail (all screws)

if you have locknuts on your blades you probably don't have to worry about ca or locktite.

(don't over tighten the blades. they need a little play. only tighten them enough to keep the blade from falling when tilted sideways)

This may seem like a burden but it will do two things. 1. get you familiar with the heli. 2. ensure that the screws don't back out during flight.

Always check the screws before a flight.
I have tightened up all screws everything seems good i think the guy at the hobby shop has set it up . the only thing im not sure about are the blades should they be lose ?

also do i have to set the gyro up on the dx6i? what setting should i put in?

[jasmine2501]

I have tightened up all screws everything seems good i think the guy at the hobby shop has set it up . the only thing im not sure about are the blades should they be lose ?

also do i have to set the gyro up on the dx6i? what setting should i put in?

The settings that are already programmed in the radio should be fine. Seriously though - READ the manual for the radio, and the Blade 400 manual too... do not spend less than 2 hours on this - there is a ton of information in there and it's all good stuff. And don't just read it... understand it. If there's something you don't get, post the page number and we'll try to explain it.

[dazzzer1]

I just trying to understand the pitch curve
On my dxi6 its got
normal
Pos L = 0.0% (Adjust up or down via the pitch guage to get -3)
Pos 2 = 25.0% (Adjust as a mid point between point 1 and point 3)
Pos 3 = 50.0%
Pos 4 = 75.0%
Pos 5 = 100% (Adjust to match your +9)

does that sound ok?

[Skarn]

That pitch curve is a linear pitch curve and will give you your full negative and positive pitch range.

I personally think everyone should learn using that pitch curve, but a lot if not most people have been taught to use a much "tamer" one for normal mode and learning. What I mean by "tamer" is that at full low stick, right now using that linear curve you will get full negative pitch (around 10deg depending on heli), but if you programmed in the L position to say....40% you will only have about -2 or -3deg pitch.

If you are using that linear pitch curve, you shouldn't have a low pitch of -3....

Also at mid-stick you should have zero pitch (with the POS 3 at 50%).

I highly recommend you go over to helifreak and watch the Finless "Curves 101" video.

Good luck,
Skarn

[dazzzer1]

ok i watched the video very interesting might have to watch it again.
heres my take on this.

Normal mode for me a beginner would be something like this? .

L pos -2 deg 40%
2 pos -1deg 45%
3 pos -0 deg 50%
4 pos 75%
5 pos 100%

so i need a pitch Guage to do this!. so when i put the pitch duage on for L pos , and keep pressing on the dx6i pitch curve till the pitch guage reads 2 degs? and then for pos 3 i keep going till it shows 0- deg on the guage. and the pos 5 not sure what deg that should be ? what if it doesn't match up with the fly bar would i have to adjust the fly bar so it would also line up with everything?

[smh20502]

regarding the blades...you don't want them tight but you don't want them loose either. They have to be loose enough to allow for lead, lag.

put the blades on, lay the heli on its side on the edge of a table--> tighten the blade enough where it will just hold the blade in the grip with out falling. Where a little tap will cause the blade to fall a bit

[smh20502]

if your blades are at zero and your sticks are centered and your flybar is off they your linkage is off somewhere.

So, yes you'd have to adjust the linkage to the flybar if it's not aligned properly

sticks= center
linkages= 90
blades= 0
Flybar= 0

Watch the CCPM video that finless does

[dazzzer1]

ok i have programed in this for pitch curve on the dx6i . is this ok for a beginner ?
L pos -2 deg 40%
2 pos -1deg 45%
3 pos -0 deg 50%
4 pos 75%
5 pos 100%

I put on pitch gaure at zero and it does line up with the fly bar so i don't think i need to adjust it anything?

now i have to do my throttle curve ?

[Skarn]

ok i watched the video very interesting might have to watch it again.
heres my take on this.

Normal mode for me a beginner would be something like this? .

L pos -2 deg 40%
2 pos -1deg 45%
3 pos -0 deg 50%
4 pos 75%
5 pos 100%

so i need a pitch Guage to do this!. so when i put the pitch duage on for L pos , and keep pressing on the dx6i pitch curve till the pitch guage reads 2 degs? and then for pos 3 i keep going till it shows 0- deg on the guage. and the pos 5 not sure what deg that should be ? what if it doesn't match up with the fly bar would i have to adjust the fly bar so it would also line up with everything?

Now you got it!

Good luck,
Skarn

[smh20502]

Under Normal mode I have mine set up as follows:

L= 0%
1= 70%
2= 75%
3= 83.5%
H= 100%

initially when I first started I had a linear throttle curve

L= 0
1= 25 %
2= 50%
3= 75%
H= 100%

The problem with a linear curve is that you don't start to fly until you're around 70-75% throttle. This meant that I only had 25% stick movement to work with the pitch of the bird. Now, at just about mid stick I start flying giving me more room for error.

Have you got your sim yet? when you do start practicing hovering. It's the hardest to master but is essential. Many people who fly what appears to be well can't hover.

1.) start by masking off a box the same width as the diameter of the blades.
2.) place the bird in the middle of the box, Tail in (tail facing you)
3.) start to lift off, if you get the skids outside the box ""SLOWLY"" land the bird--walk over and pick it up to place it back in the box
((DO NOT MOVE IT WITH THE TX BACK TO THE BOX))
what you're learning to do is to control the bird

When you can hover the bird tail in about 1m-2m off the ground change to nose in---then left facing you then right facing you.

you can do this on the Sim as well....
Now when you use the sim, get out of the habit of just resetting the system when you crash. When you crash, shut down the computer,,,restart. Doing this trains the brain to not make mistakes and take the learning process seriously.

When you get to flying around and doing tricks....on the sim, when you crash. Shut down for the day. After all when you crash the real bird there is no reset and you're generally down for the day.

Sounds like the bird is ready to go. You said that you tightened down the screws, right? Did you back them out and check for locktite? if not you will need to. Just trust me on this...if you don't your bird will crash one day because of a screw backing out.

Good luck let us know how it goes.


BTW. Which simulator did you end up getting?

[dazzzer1]

ok im confused with something!! . i measured the pitch at -2 degrees 40% with the throttle stick down. it lined up with the fly bar. when i put the throttle stick to middle and put the guare on -0 50% it lined up with the fly bar, so i put my throttle on full up and guare on + 10 but it doesn't seem to line up with the fly bar now . should i just leave it this way?

[dazzzer1]

I got the new phoenix simulator seem very good ! im learning to hover facing away from me. they have a few training mode's that help you to learn .
I use the blade 400 3d to learn with in the sim , i don't know how true to life this is , i will let you know when i can actually fly in real .

Im still waiting on my training gear to practice .

[dazzzer1]

just got my landing and put it on to try it out . when i push up the throttle it seems to want to tilt towards the right almost like it wants to tip over.

[dazzzer1]

the other problem is when i try to get it off the ground , just using throttle , the heli spins round to the right side?

[smh20502]

You have a couple issues here. First question...when looking at the bird from the top what direction does the rotor turn, Clockwize or counter-clockwize? The direction determines what direction of drift.

Remember balance? did you rebalance after the training gear is on? You'll have to rebalance both front to back and left to right. If you did this then it sounds like the swash isn't level or the servo's aren't centered at midstick.

if you haven't already go to helifreak and watch the ccpm1 and ccpm2. Watch them several times til you understand what is required to get the servos centered and the head at 90.

unplug the one of the wires to the motor. turn the controler and bird on--> go to mid stick on the controler---> look at the swash...is it 90 to the main shaft?

if you weren't in the UK I'd say call me so we can walk through this...if you want to pm me or e-mail me we can do that.

[smh20502]

regarding the tail...we have to get the balance first and the head at 90.

the tail can be a couple things, typically the tail pitch slider is not properly ligned up.

set the bird on the ground, turn it on with the gyro in heading hold and don't move it or any control surface for about 5-10 seconds. The heading hold gyro will need to initialize. Once initalized switch to rate mode.

1.) slowly run up the throttle.
2.) as the tail starts to move adjust the trim accordingly to keep from moving.
3.) when you get the tail where is doesn't move when you lift off the ground set it down and look at where the tail is. you will need to take out all the trim back to zero. so the difference between where the pitch slider is and where is was is what needs to be changed by adjusting the distance between the servo arm and the pitch slider arm. This is typicall done by moving the links in or out on the push rod.

as you screw a link in see what direction the pitch slider moves. One way will be the correct direction for you the other won't.


hope that makes sense...if not ask, we're all glad to help here

finless bob also has a video on tails under the setup 101 section (don't remember the exact name of the area but it is the same location as the CCPM videos)

[smh20502]

OK spins to the right...says that you have a clockwize rotation.

your tilt is because of balance, servo's not centered or swash not level. Could also be in the radio but that is probably not the case.

remember when setting up a heli you start from the ground up. Start with the servo's. The servo arms need to be at 90 to the case. If they are not pull the arm and rotate them around. Maybe you'll be able to get them properl lined up with out the radio. If not you'll need to adjust some radio settings....very easy. (of course you may be lucky enough to have arms already at 90. if that is the case move to the next lever....the belcrank I don't know of the proper line up because of the angle of the servo and angle of the bell crank...regardless the two control arms need to the belcrank need to be parallel. The links going from the belcrank and from the elevator servo to the swash need to cause the swash to be level.

BTW...at helifreak there is a thread for the Blade 400 under E-flite.

also found this link
http://www.slyster.com/heli/b400bible.html

[DNO1BULL]

I just put new servo's in my b400, but one operatates reversed. To reverse the direction of the servo do I just turn the plug over to reverse the polarity?
Thanks,
Nick

[Skarn]

I just put new servo's in my b400, but one operatates reversed. To reverse the direction of the servo do I just turn the plug over to reverse the polarity?
Thanks,
Nick

No, you go into your radio...there is a servo reverse/normal menu...reverse that servo.

Skarn

[smh20502]

No, to reverse the servo direction you need to go into the radio menu. the servo will simply not work if you just switch how it's plugged in

I don't know specifically about he dx6i (if that is the one you are using)

go get the manual...read it al the way through...same with the blade 400...this will take a couple hours...just do it, it will answer many questions

http://www.spektrumrc.com/ProdInfo/Files/SPM6600_DX6i_Manual-LoRes.pdf

the section you want starts on pg 24.

servo reversing. with the tx off (heli off) Hold the scroll button down and turn on. You should be at the model select screen---scroll to select model---press scroll button on your model---scroll to main, press scroll--- scroll to reverse, press button--scroll to the servo you wan reversed---

those are the basics...you'll have to play with it and read the manual...like I said, I don't have one but reversing the servo's is the same on all models...you reverse from the radio...some are simple reverse switches, some are switched on a menu.

[DNO1BULL]

Thanks, did try that would not let me reverse.

[smh20502]

DNO1BULL

which servo is it? If it's tail, is it plugged in correctly to the gyro? do you have digital or standard servo? is the switch correctly set on the gyro for the type of servo you have? There is a reverse switch on the gyro for the tail servo.

Cyclic....don't know the radio but from what I read you'll scroll down to the servo you want switched---press the scroll button--scroll to switch from N to R-- press the button again---scroll to list (I think) from here you'll have to figure out how to get out of the menus to save your changes...I don't know.

if that doesn't help and its a cyclic servo you may need to reverse the numbers on the swash mix for ex if your pitch is + 60 change it to - 60

of course you need to be sure you are plugged into the correct channel.

on cyclic servos they all need to be the same brand, model because all cyclic servos work at the same time.

[jasmine2501]

Did you watch my DX7 setup video? There is a simple 3-step process for setting servo reversing and swash mix. It works every time on any helicopter. Take a systematic approach to this and don't just go around randomly switching things to see what works - know what you need to switch and find that in the interface and switch it.

[smh20502]

Nope, haven't watched them...been doing this long enough to make adjustments in my sleep (that happens when you crash quite often)\

is there videos here like what is on helifreak? If not we need them and there needs to be a central location with an index for finding them.

[Skarn]

Nope, haven't watched them...been doing this long enough to make adjustments in my sleep (that happens when you crash quite often)\

is there videos here like what is on helifreak? If not we need them and there needs to be a central location with an index for finding them.

Finless Bob's video's used to be on here a few years ago, but he now hosts them soley at helifreak I believe.

What do you mean you tried reversing the servo in the radio menu but it didn't work?

Skarn

[grnbrg]

I got the new phoenix simulator seem very good ! im learning to hover facing away from me. they have a few training mode's that help you to learn .
I use the blade 400 3d to learn with in the sim , i don't know how true to life this is , i will let you know when i can actually fly in real .I posted this a while back in the Blade 400 forum (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11167724#post11167724)... I think it bears reposting.

Don't focus on simming with a single model.

Looking for a simulator model that is a perfect match to the Blade 400 is futile -- real life is simply far more complex than any simulator will ever be. At the very least, you are interacting with a comparatively small, 2D monitor. If you accept that the sim is going to respond differently than the Blade, you should also realize that you should be training yourself to cope with those differences. Don't try to find the perfect Blade 400 model, and get really good with that model. Switch models every sim session or two, and get really good at flying anything. If you're just starting out, and learning to hover, play primarily with the big, stable gas models. Once you start messing with forward flight and aerobatics, try to get good on the small, twitchy stuff as well as the big ones.

Why?

If you pick a single model and do all your simming with that one, you only train your fingers. You see a drift to the left, and you compensate by moving the stick right a certain amount for a certain time, and then back -- your eyes are only used to judge what needs to be done, and your fingers fall back to muscle memory to make the adjustment. You will get better and better at the sim model, but this will make transitioning to the real world harder, as the real model won't respond to stick movements in exactly the same way. The right-pause-left that your fingers have learned to counter a particular drift won't work -- you'll end up over or under correcting. This isn't too much of an issue if you're just hovering, but if the real model has a slight slower cyclic rotation, or a lower throttle response, your first flip might be a problem. :)

If you train on multiple sim models you avoid this. Because you have to adapt your control inputs every time you change models, your learning isn't focused on stick positions and timing. It's focused on stick positions and visual feedback of the helicopter. A stationary flip is no longer performed by "pull back the cyclic stick 60%, and do an up-down-up movement on the throttle that takes 0.75 seconds". It becomes "Pull back the cyclic for the 'correct' amount of rotation, and move the throttle in an up-down-up movement, such that the throttle passes through 0° pitch when the helicopter is vertical, and the maximum down is when the helicopter is inverted and level".

If you can swap between any of the models your sim offers, and still fly well, you won't have any issues when you transition to a real model. It will be slightly different, but you'll be used to slightly different.


grnbrg.

[jasmine2501]

+1 Grnbrg - I say that all the time :)

[grnbrg]

Deleted. Need to work on my reading comprehension. :)