Electric Palmer Turbo Commander 1000 build

[jetfixr]

I know what you're saying, "Palmer doesn't make plans for a Commander 1000" right? Right. I have taken a set of 117" span piston Shrike Commander plans and redesigned them into a Turbo Commander 1000. I have already started it, so in the next couple of posts, I will catch you up. The dimensions are now: 121" wingspan and 99" long.

[Lynxman]

Cool! I've been reading your thread on the Shrike to Commander conversion on RCU.

[jetfixr]

I started with the left side of the forward fuselage section. All I modified here was to add 10 inches of length forward of the wing. This is the first day of building.

[jetfixr]

Lynxman,

Yes, I do have one over there too, but I think I titled it wrong, and didn't get much interest there. Also, searching through the forums here, I have seen many more Commanders here. Plus, there is an actual Giant Electric forum here! What more do you need?

[dag214]

Very cool.
Can't wait to see your build, looks great so far.

DAG

[jetfixr]

I finished framing up the fuselage pieces, and joined them. Next, I build a little interior detail, and added the landing lights in the nose.

[jetfixr]

Thanks Dag, I have been following your thread on the other site with your B-36. AMAZING WORK!! Your last post is actually what inspired me to try this site. I have alread subscribed to your thread here so I am looking forward to seeing how yours comes out.

[jetfixr]

Next, I started concentrating on the wings. I have added 2" to the inboard section of the wing where it meets the fuselage. Obivously I have also had to completely redesign the nacelles. That was a bit hard, because I am not using any computer software to do this. I basically drew it by hand, then filled in the details. I now have the left side of the inboard wing section built, and the left outboard wing section built.

[Tyler P]

That's awesome! Looks really good and I love your light setup!

[jetfixr]

I have recently been working on the retracts. The nose retract is installed and functioning properly, but I haven't done anything to the mains yet (I have to build nacelles first). The nose is a Robart 638RS with a Robart forked strut, and the mains are going to be Robart 150's with an offset lower strut to replace what they came with. I am also including a picture of the nacelle drawing with one of my motors on it. The picture of the fuselage with the nosewheel is the most up to date picture I have. Now I am working on the right inboard wing section.

[jetfixr]

Thanks Tyler P,

There is going to be a full lighting system when it is finished. I have planned 4 landing lights (two in the nose, two on the struts rigged to a switch on retract servo to turn them on and off) red/green/white nav lights, 3 strobes (both wingtips, and the tailcone) and 2 beacons. They will all be LED's.

[jetfixr]

You all are now caught up on my progress. This is going to be a first in many ways for me as a builder. This will be the first time I have built strictly from plans, first time to fiberglass/paint a model, first large twin, first large electric, first time to build with pneumatic retracts, and first time doing rivits, panel lines, etc. Long story short, I will definitely have some questions. My progress has slowed some over the last month as school and real airplanes have been taking up most of my time, but I will post updates when I get more done.

[BigGuyJT]

I see you are using an Exceed motor setup. How do you like them? I have one in my Supercub for cruising. Its fine in that application. I'm wondering how their .46 size would work in my H-9 B-25.

[jetfixr]

Honestly, I haven't even ran them yet. They are the 110 size. I have heard all good things though, and for the price, I decided to take a chance. I am glad to hear you like yours. I definitely won't be using them for aerobatics or 3D, so hopefully they will be fine.

[BigGuyJT]

Honestly, I haven't even ran them yet. They are the 110 size. I have heard all good things though, and for the price, I decided to take a chance. I am glad to hear you like yours. I definitely won't be using them for aerobatics or 3D, so hopefully they will be fine.
Right on. Well if you get around to bench testing them, let us know what you get please.

BTW, great looking build you have there. I will be watching. :D

[dag214]

Thanks Dag, I have been following your thread on the other site with your B-36. AMAZING WORK!! Your last post is actually what inspired me to try this site. I have alread subscribed to your thread here so I am looking forward to seeing how yours comes out.

Thanks,
Just have to ask, you say you have been following my B-36 on that other site, you do know I got it here on RCG. Your project does rock, great work.

DAG

[jetfixr]

Yes, I subscribed to it here on RCG also. I haven't had people trying to sell me their products personally, (definitely because I don't have such an awesome project!) but I have seen quite a few on RCU in your thread, and some others. One comes to mind immediatly. Glad to see you are continuing here. Thanks for the compliments on my build. I just hope I don't run out of skill before the project is complete!

[jetfixr]

I finished the frame up of the right inboard wing section. I lined them up by sight, and clamped them in place for the picture. All the measurements came out perfect! These are the latest pics.

[3 pointer]

Looking very good. The interior detail is also great.

What size battry packs are you going to have to squeeze in there?

[jetfixr]

Thanks for the compliments. I am not sure on battery size yet. I need 8-9 cell lipos, but I am not sure what capacity yet. I am going to keep them in the nacelles, so I may have to get creative and combine two packs in each to make them fit. I was going to worry about that when I got the nacelles framed up.

[madhun1]

Awesome build.

[jetfixr]

Thanks! I started on the tail yesterday since it will be a bit before I can finish my landing gear. I just have the basic structure built. Also, here are some pictures of my re-finished landing gear. I used white appliance touch-up paint on them from Home Depot. It is an epoxy paint that dries super hard and has a great shiny smooth finish.

[jetfixr]

Well, tonight I finished the tail. After some initial alignment issues, it actually turned out really well. It also includes the blade antennas on each side. I may have to replace the rudder mounts because they are a little misaligned, but I am not going to touch them until I complete the rudder. Here are a few pics of it.

[lawson4323]

wow nice build

[Rudderman98]

Subscribed.

Beautiful work jetfixr. ;)

Perry

[jetfixr]

Thank you! I have tomorrow off, so I hope to get some more completed. I hope to get the rudder mostly finished and possibly the horizontal stabilizers framed tomorrow. We'll have to see how the day goes.

[Rudderman98]

Any new updates jetfixr?

Perry

[Ercoupe Ed]

Looks great!
The Aero Commander has always been one of my favorite airplanes.
I have a picture here in my "aviation room" of a white one with green stripes.
and it's signed by a guy by the name of Bob Hoover!

Ed
PS- I have a Jim Bridi kit of the Aero Commander I hope to bulid one of these days.

[jetfixr]

No big updates right now. I have the rudder about half done. There is a lot going on in the rudder, and it took some pretty big mods. I think I have them figured out however, and hopefully will get some time tonight to work on it. I contacted Robart again today about my lower gear struts, and he told me another 5-6 weeks before they will get any! That is really frustrating. I am jealous of your signed picture! I got to see his Shrike show once, and his Sabreliner show once. Quite a performer. Just a word of warning on the Bridi kit... If you do build it, I would suggest picking up a new set of foam cores for the wings. I have one also, and there is no washout built into them, but the full scale has 6.5 degrees total. I have heard the Bridi kits with the stock wings are tip stalling nightmares. The new cores calm it down a lot though. I can't remeber the website right off hand, but I can find it. I believe they quoted me around $45-$50 for a new set.

[Ercoupe Ed]

Thanks for the advice on the wings.
I'll probably just cut my own.
Jealous of my picture?
You should be jealous of my buddy Tim, who is also a model builder-flyer and a former crew chief on the Ft Wayne Air Racing team that once campaigned "LOU IV" and "VENDETTA" at Reno.

Bob Hoover used to hang out with the team, and actually took Tim up with him in the right seat during one of his performances at Reno.
Not many people have that bragging right!
Tim took me over to Bob Hoovers booth at Oshkosh, I guess it was maybe ten years ago or more, and introduced me to him.
Bob took us out to lunch with him!
What an experience that was.
"Vendetta" was a special built P-51 racer. Half Mustang, half Learjet.
Designed and built in Ft Wayne by John Dilley, a P-51 expert.
Fate played it a cruel hand, but no one got hurt.
Had Vendetta been fully engineered out, there is no doubt in anyones mind that it would have easily been the fastest reciprocating engine, propellor driven airplane in the world.
John took it easily to 540 mph at only 80% manifold pressure, with 20% left and 20% overboost for short bursts.During it's short career at Reno, it simply outran everything else in the unlimited class until an engine problem took it out of the race
It never again raced at Reno.
After an accident, it was sold and became Miss Ashley II, and was underpowered and way too heavy with the Griffon engine Gary Levitz put in it.
Gary died when it came apart in the air at Reno in 1998 or 99.
John had a 3,500 HP Merlin it.
Discovery wings did a short story on it years ago.
Someday, I'd like to build a scale version of it

[jetfixr]

That is quite a story. I never got to meet Bob Hoover, but I did read his book. He seemed like a genuinely nice person and great pilot. If you haven't read it, I highly recommend it. It is called "Forever Flying". You will definitely want to build your Shrike after reading it. I did a google search of Vendetta. That was a MEAN looking airplane. I didn't understand what you said about it being half Mustang and half Learjet until I saw a picture of it up in profile. What a monster! Sorry to hear it went down. You inspired me though, and I have been working on my rudder again. It is now sheeted fully, and I should have it shaped and looking good by the end of the night. I'll post some pics when I have a finished product.

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hi jetfixr,
Yes Vendetta was quite an airplane.
John eneded up belly landing it in a bean field, and walked away from it. Damage was siginicant, but the main ( financial) sponsor said "no more money was going into it.
It was basically a P-51 fuselage mated to a custom built Learjet model 23 wing or model 24 wing.
The landing gear had to be moved, the spar was specially built.
If John had been given more time to engineer it out, all of us guys who knew him, had faith the airplane would easily see 600 mph plus speeds.
But it wasn't to be.
John sold off the airplane.
The fuselage was sold to one party, and Gary Levitz bought the wing, and mated it to another custom built P-51 fuselage.
Gary put a huge and very heavy Rolls Royce Griffon engine in it with contra-rotaing propellors which created a huge aerodynamic load on the tail surfaces.
He also never replaced the spar which was damaged when John put it in the beanfield.
What happened when John landed in the bean field, was the prop shaft sheared and the prop went down the right side of the airplane and tore into the wing and ended up damaging the spar.
John told Gary that he would have to replace it, but Gary had engineers who told him they could repair it and save money.
But sadly, that mistake cost him his life.
Apparently from what John told us after viewing videos of the Levitz crash is that the tail section flexed too much and gave way,coming off the airplane followed y the wingspar snapping in two in flight.
Very sad.
Gary renamed it Miss Ashley II.
It ws fast, but just much too heavy for a Reno unlimited racer.
The guy who works on my Ercoupe did most of the sheet metal work on Vendetta.
John later bought an F8F Bearcat and after two emergency landings, decided to get out of the warbirds.
The first was an engine failure at 300 feet on takeoff and John made a normal landing as he was on a 12,000 foot long runway.
The second landing was done on a county road with his wife in the rear seat, and he made a perfect dead stick landing, but had to pull the wings , and put the airplane on a trailer and take it back to the airport.
John now still flies smaller GA aircraft and is into RC helicopters and electric RC airplanes.
He's a pretty cool guy!
I do have Bob Hoover's book, and it is signed by him!
Got it from him at Oshkosh the day I met him.
He really is a very nice person, and gets a big kick from showing youngsters his airplane and explaining what everything does.
It's now in the Smithsonian and Bob is retired.
Once at Oshkosh, at the beginning of the airshow, they play the national anthem, and Bob was standing with a group of us from the former Ft Wayne race team, and said "You know fellas, it bothers me that people don't take their hats off, or stop what they are doing when the national anthem is played" and the American Flag is flying through the sky with the sky diving team.
"Fellas, I didn't see that flag for 16 months when I was a POW!"
Bob is one of those great Americans we owe our freedom to!
At his booth in one of the display buildings, Bob would just talk to everyone, and especially younger folks just getting into flying, and encourage them.
He always had a smile and a handshake for everyone!And if Bob saw another airshow performer doing something he considered dangerous, he would make it a point to talk to them.

Sean Tucker will tell you he often sought out Bob Hoover to critique his performance and told us that Bob was his inspiration to fly.
Patty Wagstaff will tell you the same.
They consider him their mentor.
Once after her performance at Oshkosh, she taxied off the runway and parked near one of our VAA flight line shacks, and put the canopy up, and asked for some cold water.
One of her crew came down and asked her to taxi on back to her parking spot, but Bob Hoover was following Patty's performance, and she said "Not until after Bob is finished flying, and she sat there with us watching him fly.
She didn't want to miss one second of his flight, which was his last performance at Oshkosh.
That says it all!

[jetfixr]

I did notice the counter-rotating propellors in the pictures of Miss Ashley. I think it looked better with a single. Too bad about the mistakes made. You know the engineers and mechanics had to feel terrible about it. It would make a very impressive model. Just get a .60 size Mustang, and a Great
Planes Learjet, and go to town! Those are some great memories to have. I have never been to Oshkosh. I would really love to go someday.

[Ercoupe Ed]

Hi jetrfixr

Go to the EAA website at www.eaa.org/
scroll down just a little and you'll see Oshkosh "The Spirit of Aviation" click on the video and watch it, about 17 minutes long.

Ed

[jetfixr]

That is a great video Ed. Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I would love to spend the week there with my dad. Maybe we can convince his boss to let us take the Commander!

[jetfixr]

Ok. I have a small update finally. I have completed the rudder, and have it hinged to the tail (removeable of course). The first picture shows the inside of the rudder. You can see the wiring for the anti collision light and the yellow hinge pin guide on the back side of the leading edge. The second is just overall view. It definitely looks like a Commander tail! The third shows the light, and the hing pin out the top of the rudder.

[Ercoupe Ed]

jetfixr,
In that one picture, that looks like a Jim Bridi Shrike kit leaned up against the wall. The label looks just like the one on mine.

Ed

[jetfixr]

You nailed it. I never built it. I started on the tail pieces, but got side tracked. If I were to build it now, I would get a new set of wings for it. There is nothing wrong with the ones it has, but due to the lack of washout in them that model was a tip-stalling beast. I am trying to trade/sell it now. Have you flown yours?

[Ercoupe Ed]

What would you want for it?
No , mine is still in the box also. I thought I'd have time, but got involved in a lot of other projects, so it's on the backburnner for now along with about 10 other large scale kits.
Ed

PS- I need another kit like I need a hole in my head! LOL! :D

[jetfixr]

I would prefer to trade it. I need a 50cc engine for an Ohio Models Extra 300 I have rebuilt. Or, I would also like a 2.4 radio system. I prefer to trade because the wife doesn't see money coming out of the bank!

[Ercoupe Ed]

I don't have any 2.4 radios, and smallest gas'r I have is a G26 that Dick Bennett built for me, also a G62 he tweaked out for me.
The best large scale gas engines come out of his shop in Elkhart Indiana.
He is a master machinist and modeller himself

www.bennettbuilt.com/

Ed

[jetfixr]

A G62 would be perfect! I have actually heard of his shop while searching the forums. It sounds like he does great work.

[Ercoupe Ed]

hi jetfixr,
My G62 has a a home on my 1/3 scale Lanier Laser.
The G26 is going on either my 1/4 scale Lanier Laser, or my Hangar 9
Clipped Wng T-Craft
The engines Dick Bennett sends out of his shop are top notch, and he gaurantees his work.
My Dad and Dick were friends, and Dad once bought another used engine from a LHS and the engine just didn't run good at all. so he drove up to see Dick and Dick worked on it as Dad watched, and when Dick got done with it, it ran smooth as silk!My Dad passed away back in 2001, and I still miss him, he was my best buddy and flying buddy!

[jetfixr]

That sounds like a great home for it. I almost bought a 1/3 scale Laser once. I ended up with a Wild Hare Edge instead. Its funny that you brought up that kit though. I cleaned out my garage yesterday, and thought "I need to see if I can get rid of that since I will never build it." Sorry about the loss of your father. Mine got me into the hobby and I fly with him as often as possible. Especially now since we live so far apart.

[OhioMike]

Outstanding project. Im working on a similar item, a little smaller though. A Gus morfis enlarged Aero-commander re-drawn to be a Turbo-commander but at a minor 50"ws. Great ideas here none the less.

[OhioMike]

Some images of the Jet prop Commander 1000

[jetfixr]

Great! You should post some pictures of your airplane. Are you modeling a specific model, or just a Turbo? I have studied those two pictures many times. I have a greatly detailed photo pack of the actual airplane I am modeling, but sometimes I just need a slightly different angle. How close to finishing are you? More people need to come out of the wood work with their Turbo Commander models. The only record I can find of one being built is a thread I found here on RCG a while ago of a 690 that someone built as a slope soarer. It really looked good. Like I said though, feel free to show it off.

[jetfixr]

Another small update on the Commander progress... I finally got a break from work/school/family tonight and I have gotten a little more done. I have the left horizontal stabilizer complete now. It built really well, and I don't expect any surprises from the other side. The elevators however are another story. The plans and instructions have them designed as a split rib design with a 1/16 sheet in the center and then sheeted on both sides. This design is complicated and has one fatal flaw. The elevator hinge pin runs right down the center where the sheeting is supposed to go. With all that said, I am redesigning them as open cell like normal with 3/32 sheeting. This will simplify it a lot and provide room to put the elevator hing pin in. I have some pics, but I feel like I overwhelm with pics on this thread, so I will post some when I get at least the entire left side done. I hope to get a lot more done tomorrow and Sunday.

[OhioMike]

A Generic turbo is what im doing. Basic structure changes only without any great detailing to a specific a/c. Nothing to photograph yet. Several other a/c to finish before i start it. Good luck with yours.

[jetfixr]

I finally got the left horizontal stabilizer complete with the elevator. Like I said above, I had to completely redesign the elevator and build it from scratch. In the end, I think it turned out really good. It needs some final sanding and fitting of course, but I will get to that later in the finishing stage. Here are a few pics of this part. I will post again when I get the other side finsihed and do a fuselage mock up with the tail group assembled.

[jetfixr]

Another small update on the Commander. I have finished the right horizontal stabilizer and elevator. Now the entire tail group is built. I clamped everything together tonight to get a mock up picture. Now the only big piece I haven't built is the right outboard wing section. Work will probably continue to slow down on it in the coming months. Since we only get six months without snow on the ground I try to be outside doing other things in the summer.

[minitelemaster]

looking sweet

[jetfixr]

Thanks!

[vp46]

One of my favorites! I have been watching no eagerly waiting on your progress. As a child in the 80's I lusted over this plane and the MU-2.

[jetfixr]

Yeah, I also grew up in the 80's and always loved this airframe. Never was really into the MU-2, but I have seen a lot of them. An FBO I used to work at had many of them come through as freighters. I know the Commanders definitely fly better.

[vp46]

I imagine the commander would be a less complicated ship to manage but the MU-2 had a higher top speed and STOL performance. My brother owned/operated th "H" body (the lightest/fastest of the MU-2 airframes) for about 3 yrs before he downgraded to his Baron (he is a spoiled sh*$ ;)

Still it was neat to sit inthe right seat and hear ATC confuse the call sign as a mitsubishi Diamond/beech jet - the MU-2 was only a hair slower than a citiation but could land on much shorter fields!

If I am not mistaken they both fly Dash-10 engines right?

IN any event I love the looks of the Commander far better...and it could seat more of your friends on the way to vegas!

[OhioMike]

I to worked as a line tech at a local FOB. Several Aero-commanders but no turbos. A few MU-2's would fly in with freight for the local ford plant but that mostly came even in the late 80's, in DC-3's. My favorites that were there in several examples were the Piper Aero-stars. Now that was a sleak twin. A bunch of senecas and King airs as well! The commander is looking great jetfixr!

[jetfixr]

Thanks for the compliments and keeping up with the build. I believe the 1000 Commanders were the only ones BUILT with -10's, but they do modifications to the rest of them now to make them -10 conversions. I always thought Turbo Commanders were definitely easier on the eyes than the MU-2's and also have a better safety record. The MU-2's were faster, but as we all know "aircraft design is a series of trade-offs". I enjoyed my job at the FBO. We did get all types of aircraft through. From Piper Cubs to Harriers to 747's, you never knew what to expect!

[jetfixr]

Another very small update on the Commander. I haven't been doing any building during the summer, but I am still gathering parts for it. I finally recieved the lower halves of my gear legs today! I assembled on and put the wheel on it. It think they are going to look awesome on the airplane. I am still not convinced I like the wheels, but they will work for now. There is another set I am going to ge and try on it. Thats all for now.

[Borabora22]

Wow nice plane! If it flies anything like the real one it will be a home sick angel. Keep up the good work

[vp46]

Oh the gear is awesome! I hope you get back to it soon...

[jetfixr]

Thanks for the compliments. The mountains are starting to turn brown here which means flying season is coming to and end, and building season is almost here. I will probably start back on it pretty soon.

[jetfixr]

Back on the Commander again! I did quite a bit last night, but only have a couple of pics of it. I redesigned the aft fuselage mounting system and used alignment dowls and metal bolts with blind nuts instead of the copper tube and nylon bolt system. It turned out really good, and should be plenty strong. Next I went former by former from the wing back and had to reshape almost all of them to get the fuselage curves right because none of them lined up right. After I got that done, I cut all the stringers out one by one and replaced them. I only got the left half done yesterday, but it made a tremendous difference. Here are a couple of pics of the joining system.

[jetfixr]

I finally finished reforming the rear bulkheads on the forward fuselage section and replaced all the stringers. It looks soooooo much better now. I have also started putting some sheeting on it. It is really coming along now! I don't know how much sheeting I will do right now. The main goal with it was to strengthen that area of the fuselage. I will also sheet where the wing will meet the fuselage so I can install the center wing section. I have also been working on the nose gear doors some. The plans really leave these up to your imagination, so I am just experimenting right now.

[jetfixr]

Here are a few progress pictures. I have the 1/64 sheeting on top of the cabin now, and the balsa on the rear section. I have also framed my baggage door. It is just taped in place for now, but there are actual door hinges behind it already installed. I also included one of my nosegear door experament. I am going to take the fuselage off of the building board now and work on the wings some more.

[BigGuyJT]

Lookin good! Are you still planning on going with the Exceed Motors? A friend of mind is using a Power 46 equivilent. Runs great on 5-6s.

[jetfixr]

Thanks! Yes, I am still using the Exceed motors. I have 2 power 110's for it and I will be using three 3s in series per side. I hope to be building the nacelles soon.

[jetfixr]

I started the nacelle tonight! This was the part of the build that I worried about the most because I had nothing to build on. I completely had to start over again and redesign the nacelle and mate it to the wing and include all the hardware and landing gear while still making it look good and only using a pencil, ruler, protracter and factory drawings. Well, I think it is going pretty well. As far as I can tell, everything is right on the money. Now I can install the inside wing joiner section, and my outer wing panel will be mated with my inner wing panel. Then I can finish my nacelle formers and mount the landing gear. That is the moment I have been waiting for.

[jetfixr]

I haven't posted a reply in a few days, but I have been working on it. A couple of days ago, I finished my outer wing joiner system. It came out OK. Tonight was a big night however! I finished installing my load bearing bulkheads in the nacelle and cut my landing gear mount rails. It fits perfectly! There is absolutely no room for error here. As you can see in the picture, there is about 1/10 of an inch on the inside of the axel and the tire with the gear retracted. The rails are not permenantly mounted yet, but they will be soon. This is a big relief because as I have said before, this entire nacelle design was done with pencil and paper.

[jetfixr]

I finished installing the trailing edge sheeting on the left inboard wing section and mounted nacelle former 8 and the wheel well tonight. I think it is really coming along. It is starting to take that "Turbo Commander" look. I will have to be really careful now so I don't get ahead of myself because there is so much that goes into the nacelles, and I don't want to sheet over something, or build myself into a corner with it. I probably won't even put the stringers on it until it is hard mounted to the fuselage. Here are a few pics of tonight.