FAI rules set in stone?

[DEAN GRADWELL]

Can they be changed? I know some are outdated, for example: In cross country it is not against the rules to use an autopilot. I would suppose when the rules were drafted this would have been impossible. Today it is a reality.
My goal is to host a cross country event and call it "F3H Nationals". I would rather not have autopilots allowed at this event.
Anybody know what's involved to make a change?
Regards Dean

[jtlsf5]

Dean,
Best ones to ask are Joe W or Tom Kiesling. Both are/were FAI reps to soaring. Both are on RCG. I believe it involves about a 2-3 year cycle. Propose it, it becomes provisional, then permanent. I don't recall seeing anyting about autopilots in the FAI rules though.

JT

[DEAN GRADWELL]

Jim,
I believe that they don't say anything about autopilots. I take it that they are allowed.
Regards Dean

[jcyr1]

Terry Edmunds was the representative for FAI. Don't know if he still is. Terry should be "lurking" so maybe he can answer.
John

[Bernd Brunner]

the rules:
search F3H
ftp://www.fai.org/sporting_code/sc4/sc4_f3_soaring_09.pdf

Bernd

[OVSS Boss]

Actually JT, Terry Edmonds is the soaring FAI Rep for America. Yup, Tom is the head of the FAI Soaring committee, but that is internal.

Marc

[Ralph Weaver]

You can't call it "Nationals" unless there is a nation wide body sanctioning it. Other wise I could do an event called the Nationals in my backyard, be the only entrant and declare myself national champion.

I've never seen an auto pilot that would be much help. What exactly are you worried about?

[Phil Barnes]

I should first point out that I know nothing about F3H in particular. In fact, prior to this thread I didn't even know that it existed. I clicked on the link Bernd gave and found out that F3H is a provisional FAI class, so now I know exactly one thing about F3H.

I do know something about F3K and was involved in some of the recent efforts to overhaul the F3K rules and promote the class from a provisional class to an official class and to then promote it to world championship status. Those efforts were successful and the first F3K world championships will be in 2010.

It sounds like you are interested only in getting some F3H rules changed. This was done for F3K recently and the process should be similar for F3H. Terry Edmonds is in fact the US represenative to CIAM for RC soaring and he was very helpful when I asked him to explain the rules change procedures. Below are excerpts from an email from Terry that explains the process:

Actually I do represent all of the FAI RC Soaring events F3B, F3F, F3H,
F3I, F3J, and F3K regardless of the status of the event......

......I would suggest the first matter is to get he rules in order and that
takes proposals. It is fairly easy to get rules changes at the
provisional level rather than when the event becomes official. It will
save us time in the long run if we get that fixed up front.
Unfortunately it is too late for proposals to get on the 06 plenary
agenda but that doesn't mean we shouldn't get started. The procedure for
us in the US is to send a proposal to AMA HQ no later than August for
consideration the next year. AMA sends the proposal out to a FAI
participants list for a vote. If the vote has a majority it is forwarded
on to the FAI office to be put on the CIAM plenary agenda. This
procedure is mandatory regardless of whether the matter is rules change,
status change etc.So that is the procedure. For that procedure to be successful you will need support from a majority of F3H participants. You would first need support from domestic F3H participants so that your proposal will make it through the AMA process. But that would all be a waste of time unless your proposal had broad support in the international F3H community. I hope you are well connected with that international community and are willing to carry on discussions with the key players and develop some rules change proposals that would have broad international support. After all, we in the USA have only one vote in CIAM.

If that process sounds a bit daunting, you might consider holding an F3H event under "local rules" or under F3H rules with exceptions that are widely publicized ahead of time.

[DEAN GRADWELL]

Ralph,
Go to xcsoaring.com and look at contest 2008 and Dieters report. We had a terrific group of young men headed up by Dan Strider fly an SBXC autonomous and did very well. It's a delight to see it in action however I thought if I were to host a National or International event, piloting should be done by humans.
This June will be the 12th Montague Cross Country Challenge. For 2010 my plan is to relplace it with "F3H Nationals", "F3H Internationals", or maybe "USXC Nationals".
As you suggest there are things I need to do that is why I'm starting now.
Again check out our website xcsoaring.com.
Regards Dean

[DEAN GRADWELL]

Phil,
Wow, I had better get started. Thank you so much.
Regards Dean

[Joe W]

The FAI class F3H has been a provisional class for more than twenty years. The provisional aspect is important, the class has not been ratified (or whatever they call it when it becomes an official class). If my memory is correct, I think that the rules change process for a provisional class is a bit more streamlined than for an official class. Still, the process has a bit of a timeline to it. The bottom line is that you start by submitting your rules change proposals to your countries CIAM representative (US rep is Terry Edmunds).

Dean, I'd recommend that you go forth and put together your contest. Just note in the contest announcement that you will not be allowing onboard navigational aids other than a ground controlled radio control gear and variometer/altitude downlink.

The intent of this is to prohibit onboard autopilots, along with video, gps, or vehicle state data downlinked information.

[Ralph Weaver]

Does this not cover it already? From the FAI general section on model aircraft:

[Badger]

As an analogy, the Sporting Code for F3C (helicopters) specifically prohibits the use of gyros. Has anyone ever used a gyro in a FAI glider competition?

5.4.3. GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS

c) GYROS: The use of automatic stabilisation devices that utilise external references is forbidden. The
use of pre-programmed flight manoeuvres is forbidden. The use of an electronic rate sensor is limited
to rotation about the yaw axis.

[OVSS Boss]

Dean, Joe is correct, you can basically have any contest you care to hold as long as the safety code is in effect. In the sanction, state your extra rules and go from there. Pretty straight forward.

Marc

[DEAN GRADWELL]

Ralph,
I think you found it. Nothing like reading ALL the instructions. Thanks.
Regards Dean