Co-pilot?

[Biggie in PA]

Has anyone tried using a co-pilot?
Are they worth getting?
Do they help or do they hinder the learning process?

--

Biggie in PA
sjg1958 at hotmail dot com

[Beav]

"Biggie in PA" <sjg1958@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yh9ca.117$VM6.49496@monger.newsread.com...
> Has anyone tried using a co-pilot?
> Are they worth getting?
> Do they help or do they hinder the learning process?

The FMA Co-pilot seems to have overcome the one big problem with the
"others" Biggie.

Those "others" used the horizon as a reference, which is fine if the sensors
have an uninterupted view of a nice horizon, but they're pretty useless if
you're field has trees along 3 sides or only get as high as your head :-)

I'd give the Co-pilot a go given that it DOESN'T use the horizon as a ref (I
can't remember what it DOES use though) and the fact that I've heard it's
sensitive as hell but is also programmable as hell allowing the flyer to
decide how much stick movement it takes to overcome the "machine" inputs.


--
Beav


Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
(with the obvious changes)

Beavisland now lives at
www.beavisoriginal.co.uk

[Lyle Chase]

I use the FMA Co-pilot in a modified form on my Logo 10. The L10 is a CCPM
heli and the Co-Pilot won't handle 3 servos so I use only half of it to
control the roll axis (aileron and pitch). I still control elevator and
collective but in calm conditions I can fly hands off for as long as a
minute. It took a while to figure out the orientation and arming of the
unit but now it's great fun and I can do things I wouldn't have the cajones
to do otherwise. I'm very much a novice flyer.

Lyle.


"Beav" <beavis.original@ntloxoworld.com> wrote in message
news:SG9ca.259$qu.42@newsfep4-winn.server.ntli.net...
> "Biggie in PA" <sjg1958@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:yh9ca.117$VM6.49496@monger.newsread.com...
> > Has anyone tried using a co-pilot?
> > Are they worth getting?
> > Do they help or do they hinder the learning process?
>
> The FMA Co-pilot seems to have overcome the one big problem with the
> "others" Biggie.
>
> Those "others" used the horizon as a reference, which is fine if the
sensors
> have an uninterupted view of a nice horizon, but they're pretty useless if
> you're field has trees along 3 sides or only get as high as your head :-)
>
> I'd give the Co-pilot a go given that it DOESN'T use the horizon as a ref
(I
> can't remember what it DOES use though) and the fact that I've heard it's
> sensitive as hell but is also programmable as hell allowing the flyer to
> decide how much stick movement it takes to overcome the "machine" inputs.
>
>
> --
> Beav
>
>
> Please note my E-mail address is "beavis dot original at ntlworld dot com"
> (with the obvious changes)
>
> Beavisland now lives at
> www.beavisoriginal.co.uk
>
>

[Philip Martin]

"Biggie in PA" <sjg1958@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yh9ca.117$VM6.49496@monger.newsread.com...
> Has anyone tried using a co-pilot?
> Are they worth getting?
> Do they help or do they hinder the learning process?
>
Yes, I've just planted one on me Hawk Sport. Bloody hell its amazing!! I was
flying it on Wednesday (wind an all) and had it at about 20' up, switch on
the Co-Pilot and just let the bugger sit there, all I had to do was use the
rudder to keep it in the same area because of the wind. All this was over a
tarmac car park that they don't really recommend.

The unit uses Infra Red reference to decide where the horizon is, this is
based on the fact that the earth will always be 'hotter' than the sky. The
only problems I've found with it are that you cant set it up in yer back
garden, too much IR from buildings etc, and you need to follow their
instructions to the letter, if they say stand back 10' to twiddle yer stick
then 10' it has to be.

Once set up, at the field, the system remembers the IR rate and the
levelling you have put into the unit and will only need re-calibrating is
the light changes considerably.

In a move away from the recommended mounting location for the sensor (this
is on the tail boom for a heli) I have mounted mine under the front of the
canopy. This location came about after a conversation with FMA as I have
this 'BIG' purple tuned pipe on me heli. It was felt that the IR emission
from this pipe might upset the sensors reading.

Hopefully after my flight tests at the field this weekend I will add a page
about this to me web site with some photos. I will also give details of the
mounting bracket I have made to mount the unit.

Phil Martin.



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[Philip Martin]

OK then, got some pages together now for the Co-Pilot. Take a look at:

http://www.philip.martin1.btinternet.co.uk/HeliPage.htm

Don't expect wiz bang graphics, I don't do clever!

Phil Martin.



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[Biggie in PA]

Ok, so they are great to use.
The big questions...
Where did you get it, and what did it cost?

--

Biggie in PA
sjg1958 at hotmail dot com


"Philip Martin" <philip.martin1@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b4s3nl$22bn14$1@ID-129488.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Biggie in PA" <sjg1958@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:yh9ca.117$VM6.49496@monger.newsread.com...
> > Has anyone tried using a co-pilot?
> > Are they worth getting?
> > Do they help or do they hinder the learning process?
> >
> Yes, I've just planted one on me Hawk Sport. Bloody hell its amazing!! I
was
> flying it on Wednesday (wind an all) and had it at about 20' up, switch on
> the Co-Pilot and just let the bugger sit there, all I had to do was use
the
> rudder to keep it in the same area because of the wind. All this was over
a
> tarmac car park that they don't really recommend.
>
> The unit uses Infra Red reference to decide where the horizon is, this is
> based on the fact that the earth will always be 'hotter' than the sky. The
> only problems I've found with it are that you cant set it up in yer back
> garden, too much IR from buildings etc, and you need to follow their
> instructions to the letter, if they say stand back 10' to twiddle yer
stick
> then 10' it has to be.
>
> Once set up, at the field, the system remembers the IR rate and the
> levelling you have put into the unit and will only need re-calibrating is
> the light changes considerably.
>
> In a move away from the recommended mounting location for the sensor (this
> is on the tail boom for a heli) I have mounted mine under the front of the
> canopy. This location came about after a conversation with FMA as I have
> this 'BIG' purple tuned pipe on me heli. It was felt that the IR emission
> from this pipe might upset the sensors reading.
>
> Hopefully after my flight tests at the field this weekend I will add a
page
> about this to me web site with some photos. I will also give details of
the
> mounting bracket I have made to mount the unit.
>
> Phil Martin.
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 25/02/2003
>
>

[Philip Martin]

"Biggie in PA" <sjg1958@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BZvca.21$T01.14569@monger.newsread.com...
> Ok, so they are great to use.
> The big questions...
> Where did you get it, and what did it cost?
>
In the UK:

http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/

They have them in stock. Also J Perkins have now been appointed the UK
distributor for them. The data buffer I needed (need) came direct from them,
with a little arm twisting;o)

The Co-Pilot cost £99 and the buffer about £16. FMA also list on their web
site some extension cables for the unit but no one over here has them yet.
Not that that's a major problem as the end plugs are available from the
likes of RS and a bit of 4 way ribbon cable would do the job. I might go
this route when I put one on me X-Cell.

Phil Martin.



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[Kenwood]

Nice thing about these is that you can adjust the sensitivity remotely.
I use a Futaba controller and set the sensitivity with a knob.

When training my 10 year old son to fly, I'd progressivley adjust the
sensitivity or GAIN lower and lower each flight.

You need to progressivly wean yourself to make progress.
The Co-pilot is a great assist in NOT having to rebuild.

- Steve
"Biggie in PA" <sjg1958@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yh9ca.117$VM6.49496@monger.newsread.com...
> Has anyone tried using a co-pilot?
> Are they worth getting?
> Do they help or do they hinder the learning process?
>
> --
>
> Biggie in PA
> sjg1958 at hotmail dot com
>
>
>

[Philip Martin]

Ohh WOW!

Well today was 'field flying' day, I'm absolutely over the moon with the
Co-Pilot. Try this, heli sitting on the ground Co-Pilot turned on, throw
open the collective (like FULL) and shove in full Left or Right rudder. The
heli zooms into the air like some mad corkscrew, amazing!!! FFF and
pirouetting the works. The only thing I couldn't get the heli to do was flip
backwards, I don't know if the unit is restricting the elevator or I need to
set it up with a bit more pitch.

Tell the truth I found a weakness in the Hawk. I'd fitted some ally tail
grips and then some 85mm carbon blades in them. I think all the stress today
was too much as on the last flight it chucked a blade holder off the tail!!
Fortunately with HH mode on the CSM 360 and the Co-Pilot on the heli stayed
level despite the rear shaking and it landed fine, except for stripped gears
on the main, oh well:o)

Phil Martin.

The X-Cell gets one now:o))))


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[Steve Warren @ The UK Speedtrap Guide]

"Philip Martin" <philip.martin1@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:b52gak$242754$1@ID-129488.news.dfncis.de...
> Ohh WOW!
>
> Well today was 'field flying' day, I'm absolutely over the moon with the
> Co-Pilot. Try this, heli sitting on the ground Co-Pilot turned on, throw
> open the collective (like FULL) and shove in full Left or Right rudder.
The
> heli zooms into the air like some mad corkscrew, amazing!!! FFF and
> pirouetting the works. The only thing I couldn't get the heli to do was
flip
> backwards, I don't know if the unit is restricting the elevator or I need
to
> set it up with a bit more pitch.
>
> Tell the truth I found a weakness in the Hawk. I'd fitted some ally tail
> grips and then some 85mm carbon blades in them. I think all the stress
today
> was too much as on the last flight it chucked a blade holder off the
tail!!
> Fortunately with HH mode on the CSM 360 and the Co-Pilot on the heli
stayed
> level despite the rear shaking and it landed fine, except for stripped
gears
> on the main, oh well:o)
>
> Phil Martin.
>
> The X-Cell gets one now:o))))
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.459 / Virus Database: 258 - Release Date: 25/02/2003
>
>

I too have bought one and being a complete novice I was expecting to get
stuck in the instructions. Its was a breeze to fit on my heli, I used a boom
fin mount rather than the way they suggested to fit the sensor and after
about 15min on the flying field I had it set up a treat.

and I agree, WOW, I was moving round the field like I never have before.
Nose in, sideways and so on.. its worth every penny. Some of the regulars
could not believe how much I had improved in just a week, I did not tell
them straight away I had a co-pilot on..... he he..

I had more hassle today from the new HH Gyro...

Steve


--
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[Philip Martin]

"Steve Warren @ The UK Speedtrap Guide" <findemailaddythe@atthe.site> wrote
in message news:b57rlu$nsq$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> I too have bought one and being a complete novice I was expecting to get
> stuck in the instructions. Its was a breeze to fit on my heli, I used a
boom
> fin mount rather than the way they suggested to fit the sensor and after
> about 15min on the flying field I had it set up a treat.
>
> and I agree, WOW, I was moving round the field like I never have before.
> Nose in, sideways and so on.. its worth every penny. Some of the regulars
> could not believe how much I had improved in just a week, I did not tell
> them straight away I had a co-pilot on..... he he..
>
> I had more hassle today from the new HH Gyro...
>
> Steve

Well, fitted the Co-Pilot to the X-Cell, certainly going to stay there now.
That of course means buying another one to put back in the Hawk:o)

Updated web with some photos of the X-Cell at the end of the Co-Pilot bit:

http://www.philip.martin1.btinternet.co.uk/HeliPage.htm

Phil Martin.



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