No Name Brand Servos within ARF's - SAFETY ALERT

[guapoman2000]

Good day happy RC Flying Community.

About almost three weeks ago I took advantage of a super CRASH SALE at Hobby-Lobby for one certain "STAR MAX" F5E TIGER "Swiss" 70mm EDF JET. This model came with all servos pre-installed, EDF / Motor unit, ESC, external BEC, and 4-Cell, Li-POLY Battery pack.

I like to first announced an excellent Customer Service response from those at that department with several minor issues with my particular model and let me say that Mr. Jay Burkart of Technical Support at Hobby-Lobby has exhibited FIRST CLASS support and service towards keeping my model flying for it's total of 6 flights.

Second, I like to say that this model, the F5E is the best RC airplane model I have ever owned and flown. It has all the qualities that I was looking for, Park Flyer JET (You can Throttle Down) and COOL FACTOR.

Third, I carefully read up on all the comments posted at a certain Thread within the Electric EDF Foamie section and called Hobby-Lobby Sales and Technical Department to discuss a few concerns I had and still went through the purchased as those at Hobby-Lobby asssured me that the Electronic Components were sound and able to provide many carefree flights.

Fourth, I am sorry to report that after the 3rd flight, main gear retract servo jammed (RED Translucent servo) on the LEFT Main Retract gear. Now, my 6th flight, the LEFT Elevator control servo (RED Translucent servo) Jammed shortly after Take-off. You guessed it, it is in total pieces. :o

SUMMARY:

I took this project, EDF JET based on carefully reasearch on my part and discussions with Hobby-Lobby personnel to reach a basis of Trust that all components the come with this model.

However, in my wildest dreams, I had never seen it coming!! These NO NAME Brand servos without any specific part number to cross reference and most importantly "VERIFY" that the servo specifications is adaquate for it's intended use at the specific location within the model could be something to be concern.

I take SAFETY seriously and I like to point out that I have communicated this Crash and my findings to Two (2) RC CLUB Presidents within the Cental Florida area and cited a SAFETY issue with these Foam EDF and other models that come with NO NAME brand servos!! One RC Club President will be considering to carefully look over these kind of models and see about servo brand as you really CAN NOT TELL the Specifications and verify if "a" servo can perform it's job for the intended use / location within the model. The other president has not totally disregard it and will be taking it on advisement at the next Club meeting.

I believe this ALERT applies not only to Hobby-Lobby but, other distributors that accept RC Models that have the potential of damaging private property and harm to bystanders due to NO NAME brand servos that have poor Electronics and poorly made nylon gears or just the incorrect application for it's entended use.

I have decided to create this Post within Hobby-Lobby vendor section because this company is sought after for many RC Models and it has been around for a very long time and I am just attempting to see if they get involved and look into this issue about FLIGHT CONTROLS using NO NAME brand servos with questionable reliability.

For more details:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=994063

Respectfully,
Carlos Marin

[Wind Junkie]

I too have a similar experience with this kit.

I suppose it's worth having a lower base price and making guys like me spend a little more to upgrade even if some components are sub-standard and will fail in the hands of the uninitiated. The hobbyist will expect landing gear and power upgrades are very common. There are those who will buy these kits and expect to treat them like toys, and I think Starmax knows much of it’s market will be in this area—even if the kit price =IS= over $250. It just LOOKS so cool, your wallet wants to jump out and see it also!

However, if folks are going to fly these believing they are as reliable as other offerings we've come to take for granted, there is most certainly a safety issue which should be at least broached to the prospective buyer.

I bought the Swiss version from Hobby Lobby when the Camo version (my first choice) was unavailable in early Fall 2008. After unpacking the Swiss bird and checking out the servos I realized I'd have some initially unplanned work and minor surgery ahead to get it working to my standards. Several servos were chattering badly, and some did not have the servo arms mounted in appropriate center positions. It was obvious it was assembled by a non-modeler and/or someone who didn't care that this was to be more than just a display model.

Disgusted, I put the box aside and decided to give Hobby lobby one more chance to make me happy as I knew they often incorporate upgrades based on user feedback. I would wait for my back-ordered kit to arrive believing this kit might be upgraded. I like the F5 so much, I could stand to have two of them, and I know a couple friends who might like to fly formation with a borrowed airplane ;)

The HS 56 is almost a drop in fit for these servos. I elected to replace almost half of the stock servos with these or HS 65's.

I e-mailed a feedback letter to Hobby Lobby and did get a response, but since I didn't demand anything, I really didn't get any warning or promises for upgrades. I really just wanted to let them know that they had a kit which was 85% there, and it was a shame that it was supplied with some junk quality gear.

Joe Chovan

[staggerwing]

Time to ck servos in my kit rec'd during crash sale---think I'm now realizing what "crash sale " can mean.

[Flyboone]

Hey guys,
We fully flight test all of our products before deciding to carry them or not. While we haven't seen top quality electronics from china, what we have seen and used do work great for their intending applications. The percentages of problems that have been reported to us are inline with electronics failure norms. We have been talking to the manufactures to make sure that the components quality are what they should be in our products. As always if you have a defective product, we are happy to replace it for you.

Thanks, Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby

[guapoman2000]

Why thank you for your reply!

I do understand that you are head of the PR team for Hobby-Lobby and I like to clear up one thing from the start with you.....

First, NO ONE, is bad mouthing anyone at Hobby-Lobby and I believe we all are very aware of the ample reasearch that Hobby-Lobby does before they ship the model, however, my model's box came sealed "STAR-MAX" tape all over the box. Assuming that your company in Tennesse has this tape then, you are taking steps to check all models before they are shipped? Or, if they are sealed from China or where-ever they are coming from then, it just might be possible that the servos have changed quality norms from those samples your company was given? ;)

Second, I have not received a call to discuss my situation with regards to the in-flight failure of the LEFT Elevator Servo going to a jammed condition right after take-off. I believe ample documentation has been given to my situation to at least get a telephone call from someone in your company.

EDIT: Can you please have a Customer Service representative call me as I just received an e-mail from Jay Graves citing that he is traveling and I do not think he will be able to attend my situation with a destroyed model due to in-flight failure of components that came with my model.

Your assistance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Carlos Marin

[guapoman2000]

Hey guys,
While we haven't seen top quality electronics from china, what we have seen and used do work great for their intending applications.

The percentages of problems that have been reported to us are inline with electronics failure norms.

We have been talking to the manufactures to make sure that the components quality are what they should be in our products. As always if you have a defective product, we are happy to replace it for you.

Thanks, Jason Cole
Hobby-Lobby


I am sitting on my hands right now :o As I like to be very respectful here. ;)

I seriously doubt that whomever is producing these servos that are being installed for the FLIGHT CONTROLs on this model or perhaps other models you are selling have under-gone an accepted industry Failure Modes and Effects Analysis (FEMA).

FMEA can provide an analytical approach, when dealing with potential failure modes and their associated causes. When considering possible failures in a design – like safety, cost, performance, quality and reliability – an engineer can get a lot of information about how to alter the development, manufacturing process, in order to avoid these failures.

FMEA provides an easy tool to determine which risk has the greatest concern, and therefore an action is needed to prevent a problem before it arises. The development of these specifications will ensure the product will meet the defined requirements.

Okay, going back to the TOPIC of this thread, my model flew for 6 flights, what percentages are you talking about? :confused:

[guapoman2000]

Like to report that Mr. Jay Graves has informed me via e-mail that he will be traveling soon and will be discussing my case with the manufacturer.

Great news Jay and happy travels! :)

[Flyboone]

Please fill out the form here http://www.hobby-lobby.com/support/returns.htm so we can process your issue and replace the plane for you.

We'll get you fixed up and let me apologize for the failure and crash of your plane. Rest assured that we are doing all we can to make sure these things function properly. We'll always stand behind our products and service.

Thanks,
Jason Cole

[guapoman2000]

Please fill out the form here http://www.hobby-lobby.com/support/returns.htm so we can process your issue and replace the plane for you.

We'll get you fixed up and let me apologize for the failure and crash of your plane. Rest assured that we are doing all we can to make sure these things function properly. We'll always stand behind our products and service.

Thanks,
Jason Cole

Thanks Jason for those words and no need to apologize as things happen and it really no one's fault except to say that we all can make things better and perhaps offer a DRY / EMPTY airframe in the future so, there will be no issues with any call backs. We buy the airframe and we install our stuff and that's it, no call backs. ;)

Anyway, the truck "UPS" should be here by Thursday :D

Just a DRY "EMPTY" Airframe :D

A Special thanks to Hobby-Lobby (Jay Graves) for listening to me and putting up with my rants! :) :D Also, thank you Bobby and Olaf for putting together the airframe for me!

At this point, I do not know which version and do not care if it is a return with slight damage or not or if the airframe comes with mixed versions ;)

Once again First Rate Technical and Customer Service from HOBBY-LOBBY! :)

[kydawg1]

Great news and nice to see Hobby Lobby standing up on this issue. I hope they can get the manufacturers to stand up for their products as well, with the intention of delivering quality products to their customers worldwide (Starmax and others need to listen up).

Yes, we use DFMEA (Design Failure Mode and Effects Analysis) and PFMEA (Production Failute Mode and Effects Analysis) in the Automotive world in which I live. It would help them, along with some HALT (Highly Accelerated Life Testing). This usually weeds out all the infant mortality and design weaknesses of a product design.

All in all, glad to hear you are getting a new bird. Kudos to Hobby Lobby. I have ordered a basement full of stuff from those guys. I will continue to do so.

[rotorwash46]

GOT mine 3 weeks ago no problems YET i wondered why it had 1 red servo i was thinking when they test them the the black servo was bad so they have red ones to show how many defective ones they have this is just a thought and yes hobby lobby is awsome only beef i had was radio gear on the rtf version radios were no longer avail but yet they still had it on web site so i got 2.4 ghz 6 ch dx6 hope she flies well thanks for all info rotorwash46....

[Wind Junkie]

red servos are reversed. That's how they can use a simple Y connector to drive both elevators with 1 channel for example.